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Post by buspete on Jul 6, 2024 20:51:02 GMT
I just answered the question you asked, sorry you didn’t like the answer. You haven't answered any question you just reverted to your fixation about Brexit. On post 507 you asked “If they’ve screwed the country up for fourteen years how did they win a landslide victory less than five years ago?” with a question mark. I answered your question, you may not like the answer, that is your prerogative, but I answered your question. Prime Ministers weren’t required to attend parties, especially when it was the said Prime Minister who put the country into lockdown. He did attend Cobra meetings until he got bored with them. Neither was the Sky News team or Rita Ora but they all had parties as well. If you think Boris Johnson was sitting and writing out the rules himself you are deluded. In fairness Sky News and Rita Ora don’t make laws, but the Prime Minister heads up the Government that makes the law. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 6, 2024 21:00:26 GMT
You know full well that Prime Ministers aren’t required to attend all COBRA meetings, they are allowed to delegate to ministers who can then report back to them. When the situation evolved Johnson did attend them. As for Starmer it is well documented that he and other senior labour MPs were pushing for harder lockdowns which would have absolutely decimated the country. Would have, could have, might have. All hearsay. Just look at the actual state of the country. It’s a mess. Starmer has his work cut out to make Brexit work for us along with everything else. Let’s focus on what actually happened and the future outcomes and not F.E.A.R. (False Evidence Appearing Real). Starmer was a top civil servant with an outstanding track record: www.civilserviceworld.com/in-depth/article/keir-starmer-senior-civil-servant-dpp-cps-prime-minister-profileHe knows how policy meets the reality of actual implementation. I’m optimistic that will translate into tangible results for ordinary people. Starmer has already indicated he will collaborate with local mayors regardless of what party they belong to. I hope he ditches the partisan nonsense that has plagued the UK for so long. Brexit necessitates a more united approach. The appointment of James Timpson looks to be quite astute. Building prisons is one half of the prison space equation, prisoner rehabilitation and reduction in reoffending is the other half. Timpson knows a thing or two about helping ex-prisoners become contributing members of society. Good luck to Starmer and his mission to get the UK functioning again. Like I said in an earlier post I’m not prepared to write Labour off instantly, maybe in a year but I will give them some time. As for Timpsons approach it’s all well and good but it’ll be a hard sell to businesses to trust ex-prisoners or day release prisoners. I know there are businesses like Asda that do work with day release prisoners, particularly from women’s equivalent minimum security, but they mostly do basic tasks like stock and trolley collections. I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable working with a prisoner, ex or not, and it only takes a few minor incidents to scupper the entire project. It will take a major overhaul of the post prison system, more probation officers, more police to assist those probation officers and generally more court space to clear the backlog. It will take a huge amount of money to do so. |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 6, 2024 21:04:20 GMT
You haven't answered any question you just reverted to your fixation about Brexit. On post 507 you asked “If they’ve screwed the country up for fourteen years how did they win a landslide victory less than five years ago?” with a question mark. I answered your question, you may not like the answer, that is your prerogative, but I answered your question. Neither was the Sky News team or Rita Ora but they all had parties as well. If you think Boris Johnson was sitting and writing out the rules himself you are deluded. In fairness Sky News and Rita Ora don’t make laws, but the Prime Minister heads up the Government that makes the law. There’s no point keep going over the same thing but you haven't answered any question. |
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Post by buspete on Jul 6, 2024 21:48:15 GMT
I Don’t agree, I have answered your question, you chose not to like the answer, as it does not fall into your political believes, your question has been answered though.
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Post by buspete on Jul 6, 2024 22:07:09 GMT
I wonder what will happen with the various select committee, select committees are non partisan and do a lot of good work, this is where politicians really do work well together and they respect their colleague as just that and not what political party they belong to. However obviously if you haven’t been re-elected or you have retired you cannot serve on the select committee.
Looking at the relevant sub committee for this board the Transport Select Committee, so 8 members of that committee are gone, 6 not returned by their constituency and 2 have retired, leaving just 3 members 2 Labour and 1 Conservative. Greg Smith the sole Tory would be the best to make the next committee chairman.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 6, 2024 23:04:09 GMT
Prime Ministers weren’t required to attend parties, especially when it was the said Prime Minister who put the country into lockdown. He did attend Cobra meetings until he got bored with them. Neither was the Sky News team or Rita Ora but they all had parties as well. If you think Boris Johnson was sitting and writing out the rules himself you are deluded. To be honest they're not good examples, they're just no different to the others as they are private citizens. They don't make the rules and like everyone else who had a party, just disobeyed them instead. Boris however is not a private citizen, he is the Prime Minister and needs to lead by example. Whether someone else makes the rules or not, he leads the party so is effectively his seal of approval. It was a case of 'do as I say, not as I do' which is when public opinions on him started to tank. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 6, 2024 23:12:44 GMT
Neither was the Sky News team or Rita Ora but they all had parties as well. If you think Boris Johnson was sitting and writing out the rules himself you are deluded. To be honest they're not good examples, they're just no different to the others as they are private citizens. They don't make the rules and like everyone else who had a party, just disobeyed them instead. Boris however is not a private citizen, he is the Prime Minister and needs to lead by example. Whether someone else makes the rules or not, he leads the party so is effectively his seal of approval. It was a case of 'do as I say, not as I do' which is when public opinions on him started to tank. True but for me it will always be the weird thing that the guardian reported the minor cake in the cabinet office almost a year before it suddenly became an issue. Nobody really cared until they were suddenly instructed to by the media. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 7, 2024 0:13:40 GMT
Would have, could have, might have. All hearsay. Just look at the actual state of the country. It’s a mess. Starmer has his work cut out to make Brexit work for us along with everything else. Let’s focus on what actually happened and the future outcomes and not F.E.A.R. (False Evidence Appearing Real). Starmer was a top civil servant with an outstanding track record: www.civilserviceworld.com/in-depth/article/keir-starmer-senior-civil-servant-dpp-cps-prime-minister-profileHe knows how policy meets the reality of actual implementation. I’m optimistic that will translate into tangible results for ordinary people. Starmer has already indicated he will collaborate with local mayors regardless of what party they belong to. I hope he ditches the partisan nonsense that has plagued the UK for so long. Brexit necessitates a more united approach. The appointment of James Timpson looks to be quite astute. Building prisons is one half of the prison space equation, prisoner rehabilitation and reduction in reoffending is the other half. Timpson knows a thing or two about helping ex-prisoners become contributing members of society. Good luck to Starmer and his mission to get the UK functioning again. Like I said in an earlier post I’m not prepared to write Labour off instantly, maybe in a year but I will give them some time. As for Timpsons approach it’s all well and good but it’ll be a hard sell to businesses to trust ex-prisoners or day release prisoners. I know there are businesses like Asda that do work with day release prisoners, particularly from women’s equivalent minimum security, but they mostly do basic tasks like stock and trolley collections. I personally wouldn’t feel comfortable working with a prisoner, ex or not, and it only takes a few minor incidents to scupper the entire project. It will take a major overhaul of the post prison system, more probation officers, more police to assist those probation officers and generally more court space to clear the backlog. It will take a huge amount of money to do so. Timpson knows a thing or two about prisons as it't literally the stuff he has dealt with before being elected - it's about time governments of all persuasions actually elect people to cabinet roles where they have experience of that particular aspect and know what they're talking about rather than taking any old person just to appease some back benchers or some MP who throws their toys out of the pram so personally, I really welcome this move alongside a few others Starmer has already made in the first day. |
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Post by borneobus on Jul 7, 2024 1:28:18 GMT
All these Tories with their doomsday predictions and fear mongering makes me laugh. They have screwed the country up over 14 years. What do they have to show for it? The previous Labour (Blair) and Tory (Thatcher) governments for their eventual shortcomings could at least point to a list of achievements. What have the outgoing self-serving bunch of ideologues got to show for 14 years in government? The country is undoubtedly in a worse place on just about every metric. It really cannot get any worse than it already is. Truss was a nadir for this country and for the same party to issue out warnings over any other party is beyond parody. Good luck to Starmer, he will need it. He has 5 years to make a positive impact on the lives of those who have been let down and left behind. We need a run of global stability to settle markets and supply chains, but with populists and dictators in charge of the major countries the outlook doesn’t look great. That is beyond the control of any domestic government, but a policy to become self sustaining in our energy generation and to create a British energy company seems sensible. Much will depend on Labour’s ideas actually working and delivering jobs and better quality of life for everyone. I’m hoping Labour succeeds, because if they don’t we have 5 years of more failure and before you know it Farage will be Prime Minister. Then we really will be in trouble. It will be like Truss but tenfold worse. Except when people finally realise that foreigners aren’t actually the problem it will be too late, the damage will be done and irreversible as chunks of our national infrastructure are given over to private foreign companies and national debts and interest rates soar through the roof. The kind of circumstances that wars are borne out of. Reform policies on the surface look enticing to the average person, but once you dig into the details and the consequences they are the threat to the nation that all parties should be warning against. It’s basically Fascism in appeal (the foreigner is our enemy diluting our nation, no to communism, no to globalism, no to liberalism, no to conservatism) and prescribes nationalist (insular, but appeal to the common person - benefits, Brits first approach) and libertarian (dog eat dog, survival of the fittest) medicine for the nation. Yet with a shrunk government and civil service. And the largest budgetary black hole of all the parties. Farage is as big a threat (if not bigger) to national security and stability than Corbyn. Labour needs to succeed to avoid the spectre of Farage and collaborate with the left, centre and the right (yes Labour voters, the right also have good ideas) to govern in the best interests of the nation and steer us out of 14 straight years of decline. Zero room for complacency - look at Netherlands and now France as examples. If they've screwed the country up for fourteen years how did they win a landslide victory less than five years ago? The last five years have been difficult but who could have forseen the pandemic and the situation in Ukraine? Would Labour have done any better? I very much doubt it and I fear the Tory doomongers may well be right. So the question the Conservative Party should be asking itself is "If we won a 'landslide' 80 seat majority in 2019, why just five years later do Labour now hold a 170 seat majority?"Those are stark figures and the issue for the Conservative Party to address is/are the key reason(s). However, if you asked a dozen Conservative MPs from either the 2019 or 2024 parliamentary cohort, you'd probably get 12 different answers...that's the problem and that's why it's likely the party will remain divided and factional...everything Labour used to be.. People are advocating a leader from the left of the party but the 'One Nation Tories' (e.g. Rory Stewart, Anna Soubry) were mostly purged by Boris Johnson and many on the left of the party lost their seats on Thursday; yes Tom Tugendhat and Jeremy Hunt were re-elected (Hunt's was a miraculous victory) but if either stand for leader (Hunt unlikely to stand?) is there a rump of like-minded MPs to get behind them?...but ultimately it's a matter for the 170k or so Conservative Party members. If a 'moderate' is elected party leader, will he/she be able to unite the party or will the rumours of defections to Reforrm begin? |
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Post by borneobus on Jul 7, 2024 1:54:28 GMT
You know full well that Prime Ministers aren’t required to attend all COBRA meetings, they are allowed to delegate to ministers who can then report back to them. When the situation evolved Johnson did attend them. As for Starmer it is well documented that he and other senior labour MPs were pushing for harder lockdowns which would have absolutely decimated the country. Would have, could have, might have. All hearsay. Just look at the actual state of the country. It’s a mess. Starmer has his work cut out to make Brexit work for us along with everything else. Let’s focus on what actually happened and the future outcomes and not F.E.A.R. (False Evidence Appearing Real). Starmer was a top civil servant with an outstanding track record: www.civilserviceworld.com/in-depth/article/keir-starmer-senior-civil-servant-dpp-cps-prime-minister-profileHe knows how policy meets the reality of actual implementation. I’m optimistic that will translate into tangible results for ordinary people. Starmer has already indicated he will collaborate with local mayors regardless of what party they belong to. I hope he ditches the partisan nonsense that has plagued the UK for so long. Brexit necessitates a more united approach. The appointment of James Timpson looks to be quite astute. Building prisons is one half of the prison space equation, prisoner rehabilitation and reduction in reoffending is the other half. Timpson knows a thing or two about helping ex-prisoners become contributing members of society. Good luck to Starmer and his mission to get the UK functioning again. Great post - just to pick one of your points "Starmer has already indicated he will collaborate with local mayors regardless of what party they belong to" - I heard Starmer say this in his speech yesterday: how refreshing, feels like the 'Grown-Ups' are back in charge |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 7, 2024 5:35:49 GMT
Would have, could have, might have. All hearsay. Just look at the actual state of the country. It’s a mess. Starmer has his work cut out to make Brexit work for us along with everything else. Let’s focus on what actually happened and the future outcomes and not F.E.A.R. (False Evidence Appearing Real). Starmer was a top civil servant with an outstanding track record: www.civilserviceworld.com/in-depth/article/keir-starmer-senior-civil-servant-dpp-cps-prime-minister-profileHe knows how policy meets the reality of actual implementation. I’m optimistic that will translate into tangible results for ordinary people. Starmer has already indicated he will collaborate with local mayors regardless of what party they belong to. I hope he ditches the partisan nonsense that has plagued the UK for so long. Brexit necessitates a more united approach. The appointment of James Timpson looks to be quite astute. Building prisons is one half of the prison space equation, prisoner rehabilitation and reduction in reoffending is the other half. Timpson knows a thing or two about helping ex-prisoners become contributing members of society. Good luck to Starmer and his mission to get the UK functioning again. Great post - just to pick one of your points "Starmer has already indicated he will collaborate with local mayors regardless of what party they belong to" - I heard Starmer say this in his speech yesterday: how refreshing, feels like the 'Grown-Ups' are back in charge I'm not sure I'd class Starmer as a 'grown up' and I'd take most of what he says with a pinch of salt, I wonder how long his honeymoon period is going to last? |
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 7, 2024 7:43:07 GMT
I do. He might at least have turned up to all the COBRA meetings. You know full well that Prime Ministers aren’t required to attend all COBRA meetings, they are allowed to delegate to ministers who can then report back to them. When the situation evolved Johnson did attend them. As for Starmer it is well documented that he and other senior labour MPs were pushing for harder lockdowns which would have absolutely decimated the country. Britain and the world was facing the biggest pandemic in 100 years and the biggest threat to the economy and security of the country since the Second World War. Leaders lead. Johnson wasn't leading and as a result, the UK's response going into the pandemic was shambolic. The lockdowns should have come sooner and Labour MPs were right to push for them. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 7, 2024 7:45:00 GMT
You know full well that Prime Ministers aren’t required to attend all COBRA meetings, they are allowed to delegate to ministers who can then report back to them. When the situation evolved Johnson did attend them. As for Starmer it is well documented that he and other senior labour MPs were pushing for harder lockdowns which would have absolutely decimated the country. Britain and the world was facing the biggest pandemic in 100 years and the biggest threat to the economy and security of the country since the Second World War. Leaders lead. Johnson wasn't leading and as a result, the UK's response going into the pandemic was shambolic. The lockdowns should have come sooner and Labour MPs were right to push for them. Can you point to a government that actually got everything right? |
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 7, 2024 8:21:18 GMT
Britain and the world was facing the biggest pandemic in 100 years and the biggest threat to the economy and security of the country since the Second World War. Leaders lead. Johnson wasn't leading and as a result, the UK's response going into the pandemic was shambolic. The lockdowns should have come sooner and Labour MPs were right to push for them. Can you point to a government that actually got everything right? I can point to one that did a lot better - New Zealand. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 7, 2024 8:29:56 GMT
Can you point to a government that actually got everything right? I can point to one that did a lot better - New Zealand. I disagree, New Zealand went too hard and was effectively cut off from the world for two years. They may have been successful on paper but it was the expense of their economy, tourism and people’s wellbeing. There is a reason Jacinda Ardern quit, and aged about 30 years in 3, despite claiming burnout. Look at nations like Japan, Taiwan, Sweden who chose not to do strict lockdowns and managed to record very low levels of excess deaths and cases in general. |
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