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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 18:47:25 GMT
Towards Croydon it could probably both serve the Police Station but not sure how it would get to the stand if it is going to use either Bushey or Marshalls Road. If both stood at the station then it might just work with the SL5 dropping off at Grove Road then going via the Police Station to reach the station to stand. Both Bushey and Marshalls Road stand are full so it’ll have to be a new stand at Sutton Station as the current one isn’t suitable for 4 routes. As I’ve said before there is a severe lack of stand space in Sutton which TfL have failed to address in years gone by. I think this will definitely push the 164 out to Belmont now. As you say Sutton has little stand space so adding the 470, S4 and now potentially the SL5 and 7 seems surprising.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jun 15, 2024 18:50:14 GMT
The general idea makes sense. Even out the lengths of SL5 and SL7, add a few more stops to make SL7 more in line with other SL routes. I think the frequency should change to 12 too. Now to sort out that other odd SL route...
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 15, 2024 18:53:38 GMT
Both Bushey and Marshalls Road stand are full so it’ll have to be a new stand at Sutton Station as the current one isn’t suitable for 4 routes. As I’ve said before there is a severe lack of stand space in Sutton which TfL have failed to address in years gone by. I think this will definitely push the 164 out to Belmont now. As you say Sutton has little stand space so adding the 470, S4 and now potentially the SL5 and 7 seems surprising. The 164 to Belmont only ever seemed related to the proposed hospital, Brighton Road simply doesn’t need the extra capacity not without cutting something else back. Personally I would just convert the Sutton Police Station stop towards Croydon to a 3 bus stand and reroute the 627 instead. Simple fix and would allow the SL5 to alight at Grove Road to connect to the SL7 and the SL7 at Sutton Police Station for the SL5. If additional stand space is needed then an SL7 overflow stand could be created by expanding the Sutton Court Road stand to accommodate 2 vehicles rather than the current 1.
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Post by PGAT on Jun 15, 2024 18:56:14 GMT
Both Bushey and Marshalls Road stand are full so it’ll have to be a new stand at Sutton Station as the current one isn’t suitable for 4 routes. As I’ve said before there is a severe lack of stand space in Sutton which TfL have failed to address in years gone by. I think this will definitely push the 164 out to Belmont now. As you say Sutton has little stand space so adding the 470, S4 and now potentially the SL5 and 7 seems surprising. Sutton Station has plenty of stand space, this has only started to be realised recently. Sutton Police Station is only viable if the road layout is altered to make the left-hand lane a bus-lane, but the SL7 isn't going to the station
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 18:59:15 GMT
I think this will definitely push the 164 out to Belmont now. As you say Sutton has little stand space so adding the 470, S4 and now potentially the SL5 and 7 seems surprising. The 164 to Belmont only ever seemed related to the proposed hospital, Brighton Road simply doesn’t need the extra capacity not without cutting something else back. Personally I would just convert the Sutton Police Station stop towards Croydon to a 3 bus stand and reroute the 627 instead. Simple fix and would allow the SL5 to alight at Grove Road to connect to the SL7 and the SL7 at Sutton Police Station for the SL5. If additional stand space is needed then an SL7 overflow stand could be created by expanding the Sutton Court Road stand to accommodate 2 vehicles rather than the current 1. Not completely ideal but the 627 could run fully round the one way system in the afternoon so that it doesn't have to serve the Police Station stop if it was to become a bus stand.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 15, 2024 19:01:32 GMT
The 164 to Belmont only ever seemed related to the proposed hospital, Brighton Road simply doesn’t need the extra capacity not without cutting something else back. Personally I would just convert the Sutton Police Station stop towards Croydon to a 3 bus stand and reroute the 627 instead. Simple fix and would allow the SL5 to alight at Grove Road to connect to the SL7 and the SL7 at Sutton Police Station for the SL5. If additional stand space is needed then an SL7 overflow stand could be created by expanding the Sutton Court Road stand to accommodate 2 vehicles rather than the current 1. Not completely ideal but the 627 could run fully round the one way system in the afternoon so that it doesn't have to serve the Police Station stop if it was to become a bus stand. It’s a school route, no one cares about them or the kids who take them. Not even TfL care about them enough to list them on stops anymore.
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 15, 2024 19:06:10 GMT
Unless the SL5 is converting to double deckers this just doesn’t work for me. There are tons of through passengers on the SL7 to Croydon and I’m not sure forcing them to change bus is ideal. I was on an SL7 on Wednesday which was full to the front door, only myself and two other passengers got off in Sutton and no one waiting was able to board. They absolutely will need a shared stop in Sutton to allow easy change between vehicles in both directions. I wont use it anymore if change goes ahead, might as well get train now for that inconvenience, no SL5 from West Croydon as well, either have to get 407 to Beddington/Sutton or find my way to East Croydon
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Post by PGAT on Jun 15, 2024 19:06:21 GMT
Not completely ideal but the 627 could run fully round the one way system in the afternoon so that it doesn't have to serve the Police Station stop if it was to become a bus stand. It’s a school route, no one cares about them or the kids who take them. Not even TfL care about them enough to list them on stops anymore. But think of the added mileage!
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 19:06:42 GMT
Not completely ideal but the 627 could run fully round the one way system in the afternoon so that it doesn't have to serve the Police Station stop if it was to become a bus stand. It’s a school route, no one cares about them or the kids who take them. Not even TfL care about them enough to list them on stops anymore. For 3 journeys a day on the way home from school the little darlings can go on a little diversion.
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 15, 2024 19:10:19 GMT
The general idea makes sense. Even out the lengths of SL5 and SL7, add a few more stops to make SL7 more in line with other SL routes. I think the frequency should change to 12 too. Now to sort out that other odd SL route... It only make sense on paper, watch the amount of SL7 users cut within the first month of it happening, it's a vital commuter route between Croydon and Kingston, I can see many will switch to train instead of having to take two bus.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 15, 2024 19:19:18 GMT
The general idea makes sense. Even out the lengths of SL5 and SL7, add a few more stops to make SL7 more in line with other SL routes. I think the frequency should change to 12 too. Now to sort out that other odd SL route... It only make sense on paper, watch the amount of SL7 users cut within the first month of it happening, it's a vital commuter route between Croydon and Kingston, I can see many will switch to train instead of having to take two bus. Or the tram and train via Wimbledon.
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Post by WH241 on Jun 15, 2024 19:28:40 GMT
Where have you got this information from - is it a reliable source? It was sent out in the Croydon/Sutton area. I was sent it by someone I am guessing it was sent out and then pulled like the 14 consultation because of the election?
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Post by londonbuses on Jun 15, 2024 19:43:51 GMT
The idea of these changes do make a lot of sense, but even just from the picture the OP has posted, the execution is very poor for many reasons. Firstly, from what the picture shows, the stop/stand arrangements in Sutton are completely wrong from what needs to happen. The SL7 really needs to go down to Sutton Station to connect to the Southern trains towards West Croydon (particularly as the SL5 isn't serving West Croydon), and it also means it can serve its existing stops in both directions. The Sutton Station stand has space for one more route. In comparison, the SL5 really shouldn't go to Sutton Station, as it would mean there wouldn't be same stop interchange between the two routes towards Heathrow. My suggestion would be for it to use a new stand on Cheam Road, just before the High Street pedestrian crossing (where there is currently some parking spaces perfect for a two bus stand), which means it would then be able to terminate and start at the Post Office/Police Station. It could even drop off at the stand, right next to the High Street. Another thing which doesn't make sense is the SL7s extra stop at Feltham. Currently, the SL7 is a significantly faster version of the 285, particularly due to the diversions it takes in comparison to the 285s routing. Adding a stop at Feltham Station would massively slow the route down, as it will have to follow the 285 on this section as opposed to its current route avoiding the area entirely. Personally, if any extra stop is necessary, I think a stop at Hanworth (at the Hounslow Road Hanworth stops) would be a much better idea. The stop would be on its existing LOR, and it would connect to the 285/490 towards Feltham. Extra capacity could be provided for connections at this stop to/from Feltham by decking the 490. For the SL5s extension, the most important point I have to make is that the SL5 has to be decked for these changes to make any sense. Having this section reverting to single deckers would be an appalling decision, and would lead to overcrowding occurring throughout the day. The Beddington stop is a good idea, but I would suggest also adding a stop at Waddon Station. The extra stop would provide connections to the station, the shops on Purley Way, the 289/439 towards Purley, and give a new link towards East Croydon from the area which currently does not exist. Now let me copy this post into my notes so I remember to write all of this in the consultation when it is released.
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 15, 2024 19:54:08 GMT
The idea of these changes do make a lot of sense, but even just from the picture the OP has posted, the execution is very poor for many reasons. Firstly, from what the picture shows, the stop/stand arrangements in Sutton are completely wrong from what needs to happen. The SL7 really needs to go down to Sutton Station to connect to the Southern trains towards West Croydon (particularly as the SL5 isn't serving West Croydon), and it also means it can serve its existing stops in both directions. The Sutton Station stand has space for one more route. In comparison, the SL5 really shouldn't go to Sutton Station, as it would mean there wouldn't be same stop interchange between the two routes towards Heathrow. My suggestion would be for it to use a new stand on Cheam Road, just before the High Street pedestrian crossing (where there is currently some parking spaces perfect for a two bus stand), which means it would then be able to terminate and start at the Post Office/Police Station. It could even drop off at the stand, right next to the High Street. Another thing which doesn't make sense is the SL7s extra stop at Feltham. Currently, the SL7 is a significantly faster version of the 285, particularly due to the diversions it takes in comparison to the 285s routing. Adding a stop at Feltham Station would massively slow the route down, as it will have to follow the 285 on this section as opposed to its current route avoiding the area entirely. Personally, if any extra stop is necessary, I think a stop at Hanworth (at the Hounslow Road Hanworth stops) would be a much better idea. The stop would be on its existing LOR, and it would connect to the 285/490 towards Feltham. Extra capacity could be provided for connections at this stop to/from Feltham by decking the 490. For the SL5s extension, the most important point I have to make is that the SL5 has to be decked for these changes to make any sense. Having this section reverting to single deckers would be an appalling decision, and would lead to overcrowding occurring throughout the day. The Beddington stop is a good idea, but I would suggest also adding a stop at Waddon Station. The extra stop would provide connections to the station, the shops on Purley Way, the 289/439 towards Purley, and give a new link towards East Croydon from the area which currently does not exist. Now let me copy this post into my notes so I remember to write all of this in the consultation when it is released. I dont think TfL want to push people off the buses and onto the train, but all your other points are very valid. I think they avoid a stop at Waddon because there are two way bus can go between East Croydon and Beddington.
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Post by evergreenadam on Jun 15, 2024 21:31:29 GMT
The idea of these changes do make a lot of sense, but even just from the picture the OP has posted, the execution is very poor for many reasons. Firstly, from what the picture shows, the stop/stand arrangements in Sutton are completely wrong from what needs to happen. The SL7 really needs to go down to Sutton Station to connect to the Southern trains towards West Croydon (particularly as the SL5 isn't serving West Croydon), and it also means it can serve its existing stops in both directions. The Sutton Station stand has space for one more route. In comparison, the SL5 really shouldn't go to Sutton Station, as it would mean there wouldn't be same stop interchange between the two routes towards Heathrow. My suggestion would be for it to use a new stand on Cheam Road, just before the High Street pedestrian crossing (where there is currently some parking spaces perfect for a two bus stand), which means it would then be able to terminate and start at the Post Office/Police Station. It could even drop off at the stand, right next to the High Street. Another thing which doesn't make sense is the SL7s extra stop at Feltham. Currently, the SL7 is a significantly faster version of the 285, particularly due to the diversions it takes in comparison to the 285s routing. Adding a stop at Feltham Station would massively slow the route down, as it will have to follow the 285 on this section as opposed to its current route avoiding the area entirely. Personally, if any extra stop is necessary, I think a stop at Hanworth (at the Hounslow Road Hanworth stops) would be a much better idea. The stop would be on its existing LOR, and it would connect to the 285/490 towards Feltham. Extra capacity could be provided for connections at this stop to/from Feltham by decking the 490. For the SL5s extension, the most important point I have to make is that the SL5 has to be decked for these changes to make any sense. Having this section reverting to single deckers would be an appalling decision, and would lead to overcrowding occurring throughout the day. The Beddington stop is a good idea, but I would suggest also adding a stop at Waddon Station. The extra stop would provide connections to the station, the shops on Purley Way, the 289/439 towards Purley, and give a new link towards East Croydon from the area which currently does not exist. Now let me copy this post into my notes so I remember to write all of this in the consultation when it is released. I agree that the Hanworth stop is badly needed, there is a lot of travel to and from Kingston and the 111 and 285 are quite slow, the area lacks any rail station and is heavily dependent on buses.
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