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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Jun 18, 2024 11:39:31 GMT
Well I hold dramatically different views to ones expressed so far it seems! Whole proposal is just a big no to me (with minor exceptions).
East Croydon is a major interchange, feeding thousands passengers from all over each day, many with suitcases. They would all be dumped on the pavement, often early in the morning, or late in the evenings. So would all the Heathrow staff who live east of Sutton. Vulnerable women. And then all those people get told their journey "matters", lol no....
Also we should know, and what happens even on trains, that passengers would rather endure one long, not always most direct journey, using single form of transport, then get somewhere faster but having to change in-between. People don't want to change buses if they can help it, and that's human psychology, simples. Let alone with suitcases!!
If the electric bus rumour is true, then why should customers be punished for lack of suitable vehicle being unavailable yet on the market? Besides, the target is 2030 so there is time yet. Chuck hybrids on the route for now if the B9s bother people so much. For me I find they have spacious layout, and comfortable Lazzerini seats. Decent for London standards.
I don't mind Beddington stop added because it's an original 726 one which was lost when the route became X26, and there had been campaigns for years to get it restored, so it may even happen now. It's already on the line of route so any time penalties are negligible. Feltham I feel far more apprehensive about. Traffic will lead to more delays. And don't get me started on Harlington Corner. It's totally superfluous: doesn't like 10 or so routes pass there already? You'll rarely have to wait for a bus for longer than 10mins over there. No need to send SL7 out of its way when people are rushing to get to the airport really.
As a major stakeholder which funded range of various transport improvements lately, I sincerely hope Heathrow throw up a big fuss that such a high profile red bus route is about to get crippled and undo some of the work they've achieved in recent times... They've done far more for buses than TfL were bothered to in last decade tbh.
Also the extension of SL5 would ruin its reliability. Don't fix what isn't broken, they say. All it needs is decking, not extensions for the sake of it. That route works best short-n-sweet, like the W7.
Honestly, it sounds like tweaking for the sake of tweaking. TfL once again fail to run their bus network like a business. Whilst for less patronised local routes I can see why they need funding, tell me what sane business would cut a major high profile bus route from a significant intercity interchange like East Croydon? And then beg for more handouts from the government yet again because of their foolish decisions?
Please say no in the consultation. I think we need to kick off a big campaign about this so everyone affected is aware what is being proposed.
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Post by PGAT on Jun 18, 2024 11:52:34 GMT
Well I hold dramatically different views to ones expressed so far it seems! Whole proposal is just a big no to me (with minor exceptions). East Croydon is a major interchange, feeding thousands passengers from all over each day, many with suitcases. They would all be dumped on the pavement, often early in the morning, or late in the evenings. So would all the Heathrow staff who live east of Sutton. Vulnerable women. And then all those people get told their journey "matters", lol no.... Also we should know, and what happens even on trains, that passengers would rather endure one long, not always most direct journey, using single form of transport, then get somewhere faster but having to change in-between. People don't want to change buses if they can help it, and that's human psychology, simples. If the electric bus rumour is true, then why should customers be punished for lack of suitable vehicle being unavailable yet on the market? Besides, the target is 2030 so there is time yet. Chuck hybrids on the route for now if the B9s bother people so much. For me I find they have spacious layout, and comfortable Lazzerini seats. Decent for London standards. I don't mind Beddington stop added because it's an original 726 one which was lost when the route became X26, and there had been campaigns for years to get it restored, so it may even happen now. It's already on the line of route so any time penalties are negligible. Feltham I feel far more apprehensive about. Traffic will lead to more delays. And don't get me started on Harlington Corner. It's totally superfluous: doesn't like 10 or so routes pass there already? You'll rarely have to wait for a bus for longer than 10mins over there. No need to send SL7 out of its way when people are rushing to get to the airport really. As a major stakeholder which funded range of various transport improvements lately, I sincerely hope Heathrow throw up a big fuss that such a high profile red bus route is about to get crippled and undo some of the work they've achieved in recent times... They've done far more for buses than TfL were bothered to in last decade tbh. Also the extension of SL5 would ruin its reliability. Don't fix what isn't broken, they say. All it needs is decking, not extensions for the sake of it. That route works best short-n-sweet, like the W7. Honestly, it sounds like tweaking for the sake of tweaking. TfL once again fail to run their bus network like a business. Whilst for less patronised local routes I can see why they need funding, tell me what sane business would cut a major high profile bus route from a significant intercity interchange like East Croydon? And then beg for more handouts from the government yet again because of their foolish decisions? Please say no in the consultation. I think we need to kick off a big campaign about this so everyone affected is aware what is being proposed. This is my take and I 100% agree.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 18, 2024 12:05:25 GMT
. As a major stakeholder which funded range of various transport improvements lately, I sincerely hope Heathrow throw up a big fuss that such a high profile red bus route is about to get crippled and undo some of the work they've achieved in recent times... They've done far more for buses than TfL were bothered to in last decade tbh. I think Heathrow will be quite happy with the cut being honest, their biggest and most active stance is trying to get low or zero emission vehicles operating in their area and if this is what allows the SL7 to go electric I'd be very surprised to see any objection from them at all.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 18, 2024 12:11:12 GMT
Well I hold dramatically different views to ones expressed so far it seems! Whole proposal is just a big no to me (with minor exceptions). East Croydon is a major interchange, feeding thousands passengers from all over each day, many with suitcases. They would all be dumped on the pavement, often early in the morning, or late in the evenings. So would all the Heathrow staff who live east of Sutton. Vulnerable women. And then all those people get told their journey "matters", lol no.... Also we should know, and what happens even on trains, that passengers would rather endure one long, not always most direct journey, using single form of transport, then get somewhere faster but having to change in-between. People don't want to change buses if they can help it, and that's human psychology, simples. Let alone with suitcases!! If the electric bus rumour is true, then why should customers be punished for lack of suitable vehicle being unavailable yet on the market? Besides, the target is 2030 so there is time yet. Chuck hybrids on the route for now if the B9s bother people so much. For me I find they have spacious layout, and comfortable Lazzerini seats. Decent for London standards. I don't mind Beddington stop added because it's an original 726 one which was lost when the route became X26, and there had been campaigns for years to get it restored, so it may even happen now. It's already on the line of route so any time penalties are negligible. Feltham I feel far more apprehensive about. Traffic will lead to more delays. And don't get me started on Harlington Corner. It's totally superfluous: doesn't like 10 or so routes pass there already? You'll rarely have to wait for a bus for longer than 10mins over there. No need to send SL7 out of its way when people are rushing to get to the airport really. As a major stakeholder which funded range of various transport improvements lately, I sincerely hope Heathrow throw up a big fuss that such a high profile red bus route is about to get crippled and undo some of the work they've achieved in recent times... They've done far more for buses than TfL were bothered to in last decade tbh. Also the extension of SL5 would ruin its reliability. Don't fix what isn't broken, they say. All it needs is decking, not extensions for the sake of it. That route works best short-n-sweet, like the W7. Honestly, it sounds like tweaking for the sake of tweaking. TfL once again fail to run their bus network like a business. Whilst for less patronised local routes I can see why they need funding, tell me what sane business would cut a major high profile bus route from a significant intercity interchange like East Croydon? And then beg for more handouts from the government yet again because of their foolish decisions? Please say no in the consultation. I think we need to kick off a big campaign about this so everyone affected is aware what is being proposed. Personally if I were going from Croydon to Heathrow I'd get the train unless I particularly fancied a bus ride. Some family members in Croydon tried the bus to Heathrow and even with the limited stop nature they found it tediously slow as well as being hot and uncomfortable and they used the tube/train for the return journey. I've no idea how many Heathrow staff live east of Sutton but if they can do a commute like that every day then fair play to them but can they really expect it for £1.75? I don't think the electric bus issue has anything to do with it, an EV can do at least three rounders and possibly more with opportunity charging, although that hasn't been a great success so far on the 358! I think Croydon to Kingston would be better with something else covering the Heathrow section. I wonder if the extra stop at Beddington is just for driver changeovers?
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 18, 2024 12:19:12 GMT
. As a major stakeholder which funded range of various transport improvements lately, I sincerely hope Heathrow throw up a big fuss that such a high profile red bus route is about to get crippled and undo some of the work they've achieved in recent times... They've done far more for buses than TfL were bothered to in last decade tbh. I think Heathrow will be quite happy with the cut being honest, their biggest and most active stance is trying to get low or zero emission vehicles operating in their area and if this is what allows the SL7 to go electric I'd be very surprised to see any objection from them at all. They can achieve low emission by using hybrid, ultimately if the route has to get split, kingston it is but hopefully no split happens. It will force quite a few people to use taxis to heathrow instead which isnt very enviromentally friendly is it
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 18, 2024 12:21:59 GMT
Personally if I were going from Croydon to Heathrow I'd get the train unless I particularly fancied a bus ride. Some family members in Croydon tried the bus to Heathrow and even with the limited stop nature they found it tediously slow as well as being hot and uncomfortable and they used the tube/train for the return journey. I've no idea how many Heathrow staff live east of Sutton but if they can do a commute like that every day then fair play to them but can they really expect it for £1.75? I don't think the electric bus issue has anything to do with it, an EV can do at least three rounders and possibly more with opportunity charging, although that hasn't been a great success so far on the 358! I think Croydon to Kingston would be better with something else covering the Heathrow section. I wonder if the extra stop at Beddington is just for driver changeovers? Once again, you cant seperate the fare structure for the route from the others just because of length. I agree I don't think it linked to EV problems. I hope not, will slow route down a lot, current change is at end of route at West Croydon, should stay this way
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Post by bk10mfe on Jun 18, 2024 12:31:57 GMT
Putney Heath will have no stand space especially if the 14’s frequency increase goes ahead. Logically speaking though it would make sense for the SL7’s allocation to move to AF as it wouldn’t be running near Croydon anymore, so it could stand in the bus garage, enabling it to skip out on most of Putney High St. The Heathrow Central-T5 link could easily be covered by having the 423 perform a double run to serve Heathrow Central. Question is does AF have space to even take that route on? If that was to happen then another route would have to move out Yeah something would need to move out. As the 118 is potentially moving out of SW maybe the 39 could go back there.
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Post by bk10mfe on Jun 18, 2024 12:37:00 GMT
Maybe I missed something but I didn’t read the backlog of posts. I thought the poster was suggesting to move the SL7 to AF running from Sutton to Croydon which you can also clearly see from my response that you didn’t read properly but decided to make assumptions. Overall in relation to the SL9 it was just a suggestion which was actually quite logical… I’ve read the previous posts in relation to this now so I get where the Putney idea has come from. Yeah my idea of the SL7 being sent to Putney is to help out the 85 which I know well enough won’t be able to manage on its own with a reduced frequency.
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 18, 2024 12:37:54 GMT
Question is does AF have space to even take that route on? If that was to happen then another route would have to move out Yeah something would need to move out. As the 118 is potentially moving out of SW maybe the 39 could go back there. Even if 118 is lost or moves out, the 355 will be LG operated from start of new contract
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Post by mkay315 on Jun 18, 2024 13:48:09 GMT
Yeah something would need to move out. As the 118 is potentially moving out of SW maybe the 39 could go back there. Even if 118 is lost or moves out, the 355 will be LG operated from start of new contract Even though on paper the 355 would be LG operated they could novate it and keep it at Q since it's under the same Go Ahead banner. I know they have done that with a few routes in the past within Go Ahead.
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Post by danorak on Jun 18, 2024 14:18:56 GMT
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 18, 2024 14:35:43 GMT
Even if 118 is lost or moves out, the 355 will be LG operated from start of new contract Even though on paper the 355 would be LG operated they could novate it and keep it at Q since it's under the same Go Ahead banner. I know they have done that with a few routes in the past within Go Ahead. I don’t even think they’d need to novate it as London Central is just a trading name. Legally all the TfL operations are under the London General name and ‘o’ license. Even now the individual names are being dropped in favour of a simplified Go Ahead London logo so it may well be the 355 just says where it is. I’d assume all new drivers are given contracts that just state London General as the employer.
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Post by LK65EBO on Jun 18, 2024 16:05:12 GMT
I'm not too sure adding another 12 miles and 50 minutes onto a route can be classed as a reasonable suggestion when it will only benefit the route that it is replacing. I get your point overall however it’s perfectly acceptable to curtail the SL7 to Sutton as removing a well established link. I would say though SL9 idea is probably better than some of a usual trash in the fantasy threads. However I do remember in Geoff Marshall’s Video he suggested Croydon to Kingston & Kingston to Heathrow Central to become two separate routes. No, your proposal very much falls in the same "trash".
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Post by LondonExplorer316 on Jun 18, 2024 16:12:02 GMT
I'm not too sure adding another 12 miles and 50 minutes onto a route can be classed as a reasonable suggestion when it will only benefit the route that it is replacing. I get your point overall however it’s perfectly acceptable to curtail the SL7 to Sutton as removing a well established link. I would say though SL9 idea is probably better than some of a usual trash in the fantasy threads. However I do remember in Geoff Marshall’s Video he suggested Croydon to Kingston & Kingston to Heathrow Central to become two separate routes. Your idea is not only less viable and reasonable than a lot of the "trash" you describe, but you also seem to have tried to fool yourself and others on this forum that you suddenly know usage and service patterns better than those who have used the service significantly more than you have (and with this idea, I doubt you have at all). The idea, unfortunately, just won't work so stop pursuing a justification for it.
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Post by SouthLondoner468 on Jun 18, 2024 16:36:35 GMT
An upcoming consultation will be released for the following - Extend Route SL5 from Croydon Town Centre to Sutton Station via current Route SL7
- Add a new stop at Beddington Plough Lane
- Withdraw Route SL7 between Sutton Town Centre & West Croydon
- Add new stops on Route SL7 at Harlington Corner & Feltham (locations TBC)
I think having a Harlington Corner stop is really pointless. About 4-5 routes, including SL9 serve both Heathrow Central and Harlington Corner, which takes only about 10 minutes on the non-express routes, if that.
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