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Post by evergreenadam on Jun 18, 2024 16:59:38 GMT
An upcoming consultation will be released for the following - Extend Route SL5 from Croydon Town Centre to Sutton Station via current Route SL7
- Add a new stop at Beddington Plough Lane
- Withdraw Route SL7 between Sutton Town Centre & West Croydon
- Add new stops on Route SL7 at Harlington Corner & Feltham (locations TBC)
I think having a Harlington Corner stop is really pointless. About 4-5 routes, including SL9 serve both Heathrow Central and Harlington Corner, which takes only about 10 minutes on the non-express routes, if that. It will be very useful for interchange with other routes, especially for journeys like Slough to Kingston, Hayes to Kingston and West Drayton to Kingston, also shortens the time to do the Kingston to Harrow part of the Superloop. It will also be useful to disperse passengers from Kingston across the northern periphery of Heathrow Airport where there is a lot of employment including at BA HQ, saving passengers from doing a double run via the Central Bus Station.
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Post by abellion on Jun 18, 2024 17:03:30 GMT
An upcoming consultation will be released for the following - Extend Route SL5 from Croydon Town Centre to Sutton Station via current Route SL7
- Add a new stop at Beddington Plough Lane
- Withdraw Route SL7 between Sutton Town Centre & West Croydon
- Add new stops on Route SL7 at Harlington Corner & Feltham (locations TBC)
I think having a Harlington Corner stop is really pointless. About 4-5 routes, including SL9 serve both Heathrow Central and Harlington Corner, which takes only about 10 minutes on the non-express routes, if that. It will make interchange so much faster between the SL7 and Heathrow-Harlington Corner routes including the SL9 as well as make new connections to the 81 and H98. 20mins is quite some time saved when changing to and from those 4-5 routes, I can think of a few times for myself where that stop would’ve been very handy instead of having to choose between Hatton X and Heathrow or changing buses
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Post by SouthLondoner468 on Jun 18, 2024 17:05:26 GMT
I think having a Harlington Corner stop is really pointless. About 4-5 routes, including SL9 serve both Heathrow Central and Harlington Corner, which takes only about 10 minutes on the non-express routes, if that. It will be very useful for interchange with other routes, especially for journeys like Slough to Kingston, Hayes to Kingston and West Drayton to Kingston, also shortens the time to do the Kingston to Harrow part of the Superloop. It will also be useful to disperse passengers from Kingston across the northern periphery of Heathrow Airport where there is a lot of employment including at BA HQ, saving passengers from doing a double run via the Central Bus Station. If you really want to go from any of those destinations to Kingston, just change onto a 285 at Harlington Corner then an SL7 at Hatton Cross
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Post by evergreenadam on Jun 18, 2024 19:45:51 GMT
It will be very useful for interchange with other routes, especially for journeys like Slough to Kingston, Hayes to Kingston and West Drayton to Kingston, also shortens the time to do the Kingston to Harrow part of the Superloop. It will also be useful to disperse passengers from Kingston across the northern periphery of Heathrow Airport where there is a lot of employment including at BA HQ, saving passengers from doing a double run via the Central Bus Station. If you really want to go from any of those destinations to Kingston, just change onto a 285 at Harlington Corner then an SL7 at Hatton Cross A lot of people don’t like changing buses and there are time penalties. What’s the problem with having a Superloop SL7 stop at Harlington Corner? If it turns out not to be popular then few buses will actually stop there and there won’t be any impact on journey times of through passengers. Are there any other Superloop bus stops where one Superloop route stops and the other speeds straight past? Removing that confusing anomaly is good enough reason by itself for both routes to stop there.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 18, 2024 20:09:04 GMT
It will be very useful for interchange with other routes, especially for journeys like Slough to Kingston, Hayes to Kingston and West Drayton to Kingston, also shortens the time to do the Kingston to Harrow part of the Superloop. It will also be useful to disperse passengers from Kingston across the northern periphery of Heathrow Airport where there is a lot of employment including at BA HQ, saving passengers from doing a double run via the Central Bus Station. If you really want to go from any of those destinations to Kingston, just change onto a 285 at Harlington Corner then an SL7 at Hatton Cross That defeats the whole purpose of attracting people to the bus network in the first place. I don’t see the issue with adding a Harlington Corner stop - it won’t much time on at all and allows interchange between the SL7 & SL9 without having to go all the way to Heathrow to do so
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Jun 18, 2024 22:55:41 GMT
Well I hold dramatically different views to ones expressed so far it seems! Whole proposal is just a big no to me (with minor exceptions). East Croydon is a major interchange, feeding thousands passengers from all over each day, many with suitcases. They would all be dumped on the pavement, often early in the morning, or late in the evenings. So would all the Heathrow staff who live east of Sutton. Vulnerable women. And then all those people get told their journey "matters", lol no.... Also we should know, and what happens even on trains, that passengers would rather endure one long, not always most direct journey, using single form of transport, then get somewhere faster but having to change in-between. People don't want to change buses if they can help it, and that's human psychology, simples. Let alone with suitcases!! If the electric bus rumour is true, then why should customers be punished for lack of suitable vehicle being unavailable yet on the market? Besides, the target is 2030 so there is time yet. Chuck hybrids on the route for now if the B9s bother people so much. For me I find they have spacious layout, and comfortable Lazzerini seats. Decent for London standards. I don't mind Beddington stop added because it's an original 726 one which was lost when the route became X26, and there had been campaigns for years to get it restored, so it may even happen now. It's already on the line of route so any time penalties are negligible. Feltham I feel far more apprehensive about. Traffic will lead to more delays. And don't get me started on Harlington Corner. It's totally superfluous: doesn't like 10 or so routes pass there already? You'll rarely have to wait for a bus for longer than 10mins over there. No need to send SL7 out of its way when people are rushing to get to the airport really. As a major stakeholder which funded range of various transport improvements lately, I sincerely hope Heathrow throw up a big fuss that such a high profile red bus route is about to get crippled and undo some of the work they've achieved in recent times... They've done far more for buses than TfL were bothered to in last decade tbh. Also the extension of SL5 would ruin its reliability. Don't fix what isn't broken, they say. All it needs is decking, not extensions for the sake of it. That route works best short-n-sweet, like the W7. Honestly, it sounds like tweaking for the sake of tweaking. TfL once again fail to run their bus network like a business. Whilst for less patronised local routes I can see why they need funding, tell me what sane business would cut a major high profile bus route from a significant intercity interchange like East Croydon? And then beg for more handouts from the government yet again because of their foolish decisions? Please say no in the consultation. I think we need to kick off a big campaign about this so everyone affected is aware what is being proposed. While I do get your viewpoint and I do support some of what you are saying. As a Croydon resident, I will be supporting this scheme when the official consultation is launched on the premise that route SL5 gets converted to a double deck operation, if route SL5 is not proposed to convert to a double deck operation I will oppose it. My reasoning is because route SL7 as others have mentioned is a victim of its own success, it is very long, attracts a lot of commuters (even more so since the frequency increase to every 15 mins), goes through a lot of traffic hotspots which now affects its reliability greatly as it is very common to see bunching of route SL7 buses and excessive regulation. There are benefits of route SL5 becoming a Sutton to Bromley route 1) Creates a new South West to South East London link between two major town centres which I think will be become very popular once implemented and becomes more wider known by passengers. 2) The popular Sutton - Croydon part of the route gets even more frequent express service with the frequency of route SL5 being every 12 minutes opposed to every 15 mins of route SL7. You raise a point about Heathrow's support, personally I think they will support the proposals especially if it makes converting route SL7 to an all electric operation viable and plausible as well as adding more stops along the route within the Heathrow area. The proposals are imperfect, yes. For example; I would lose out as I am sure route SL5 will not serve West Croydon Bus Station if route SL7 is shortened to Sutton Town Centre but there's the art of compromise which I abide with. Route SL7 is just not working in its current form and TFL have recognised that. It is such a bargain for me having a 23 mile journey from Heathrow to Croydon for £1.75 for example that despite its success could be still a loss maker by some degree. I wouldn't mind paying 2x £1.75 for a trip from Heathrow to Croydon using route SL7 then route SL5 that feels like the right amount to pay for that length of a journey using the bus as a public mode of transport. I'm also a supporter of more greener vehicles coming on our roads. Route SL7 deserves a new fleet of state of the art electric vehicles designed with the route in mind for the get go (including luggage racks, high back seats, the newer, more informative iBus screens, USB charging ports etc). If that means it will need to be shortened for that to happen, I will support that.
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Post by lj61nwc on Jun 18, 2024 23:07:24 GMT
Well I hold dramatically different views to ones expressed so far it seems! Whole proposal is just a big no to me (with minor exceptions). East Croydon is... While do I get your viewpoint... The main problem here is loss of Croydon to Kingston direct which will cause a loss in passengers. I understand that TfL need to split the route, so go ahead, but do it in Kingston, if it gets split in Sutton it makes the train much more friendlier option with most people already take one bus to get to SL7 stop and now will have to change again in Sutton. I personally find seat comfy enough for the whole journey - would be nice to have electric as it would get rid of engine vibrations - and am glad we don't have to deal with bullshit of having plastic seats.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 19, 2024 4:54:40 GMT
While do I get your viewpoint... The main problem here is loss of Croydon to Kingston direct which will cause a loss in passengers. I understand that TfL need to split the route, so go ahead, but do it in Kingston, if it gets split in Sutton it makes the train much more friendlier option with most people already take one bus to get to SL7 stop and now will have to change again in Sutton. I personally find seat comfy enough for the whole journey - would be nice to have electric as it would get rid of engine vibrations - and am glad we don't have to deal with bullshit of having plastic seats. I agree about Croydon to Kingston but then of course the Heathrow link is lost between Kingston and Sutton so it's swings and roundabouts really and whatever happens somebody won't be happy.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jun 19, 2024 18:07:37 GMT
To me this is about the efficiency and costs here. They would not bother with this otherwise. If there is a massive negative response to the main change I expect SL7 to get existing buses for a few more years and they will try opportunity charging post 358 trial. What about hydrogen buses as a solution? but I have no idea on that but took the 7 the other day for first in ages and those buses are smooth rides.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 19, 2024 19:01:12 GMT
To me this is about the efficiency and costs here. They would not bother with this otherwise. If there is a massive negative response to the main change I expect SL7 to get existing buses for a few more years and they will try opportunity charging post 358 trial. What about hydrogen buses as a solution? but I have no idea on that but took the 7 the other day for first in ages and those buses are smooth rides. Hydrogen is really sporadic. As seen with the 7, vehicles can be off the road for extended periods due to a lack of fuel which is caused by the lack of investment. There are a lot of hoops to jump through to make it viable for daily usage. Perhaps if Metrobus get their fuelling centre up and running in Crawley it may make one under TfL more of a possibility but with two routes so far apart it could be prohibitively expensive.
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Post by bobajob on Jun 20, 2024 8:18:26 GMT
Nobody’s mentioned that the reason the SL5 is restricted to single deckers is due to the low hanging trees on Eden Park Road. Decking it would involve either convincing Bromley Council to cut the trees back, or rerouting it, which would have too much impact on the 119 and wreck reliability.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 20, 2024 8:22:39 GMT
Nobody’s mentioned that the reason the SL5 is restricted to single deckers is due to the low hanging trees on Eden Park Road. Decking it would involve either convincing Bromley Council to cut the trees back, or rerouting it, which would have too much impact on the 119 and wreck reliability. TfL better throw some cash to get Bromley council to cut the trees back as a single decker won’t be suitable for the Croydon to Sutton stretch.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 20, 2024 8:49:29 GMT
Nobody’s mentioned that the reason the SL5 is restricted to single deckers is due to the low hanging trees on Eden Park Road. Decking it would involve either convincing Bromley Council to cut the trees back, or rerouting it, which would have too much impact on the 119 and wreck reliability. I think it would have to be rerouted via Eden Park and Stone Park Ave with possibly an extra stop at Eden Park Station although it will inevitably extend journey times. Then again with presumably one extra bus per hour between Croydon and Sutton and a likely drop in usage because the Croydon to Kingston and Heathrow link is lost then single deckers might well be deemed adequate. *The trees are literally right next to the road with the risk of a branch coming through a top deck window.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 20, 2024 9:25:08 GMT
Nobody’s mentioned that the reason the SL5 is restricted to single deckers is due to the low hanging trees on Eden Park Road. Decking it would involve either convincing Bromley Council to cut the trees back, or rerouting it, which would have too much impact on the 119 and wreck reliability. TfL better throw some cash to get Bromley council to cut the trees back as a single decker won’t be suitable for the Croydon to Sutton stretch. Even every 12 mins thou? If it took 12m buses it might just cope and may even send some people back to the 407 which does have capacity to take them still.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 20, 2024 10:38:40 GMT
TfL better throw some cash to get Bromley council to cut the trees back as a single decker won’t be suitable for the Croydon to Sutton stretch. Even every 12 mins thou? If it took 12m buses it might just cope and may even send some people back to the 407 which does have capacity to take them still. If the 407 split goes ahead (which would seem more likely with the SL5/SL7 providing stand space in Croydon), you could increase the frequency of the Sutton-Croydon end if needed. And this corridor does of course have Southern trains as well.
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