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Post by WH241 on Oct 30, 2024 14:20:42 GMT
They specifically didn’t bid for the 325 to allow the ENLs to transfer to the 312 Either way 325 would have required new buses anyways. Just out of interest was it ever confirmed that Arriva wasn’t the second bidder? I don’t think we will ever know for sure as I assume bids are confidential. I get the impression it is just assumed it was Go Ahead and Stagecoach who bid for the route. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 30, 2024 14:23:20 GMT
Either way 325 would have required new buses anyways. Just out of interest was it ever confirmed that Arriva wasn’t the second bidder? I don’t think we will ever know for sure as I assume bids are confidential. I get the impression it is just assumed it was Go Ahead and Stagecoach who bid for the route. I believe Arriva never declined they bid, but Stagecoach then admitted they did. Go Ahead won which would make them a confirmed bidder and there were only two. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 30, 2024 14:24:06 GMT
This has got to be one of the most baseless comments here, the 325 bid wouldn't have been compliant with the ENLs regardless and therefore wouldn't have had a bearing on whether Arriva bid. Arriva clearly had a reason they didn't go for it, but the fact it was to release the ENLs is laughable. However the SL2 was gained and sent to DX plus the 150 & 175 retained so it’s pretty obvious the company has interest in keeping the site open. What point are you trying to make here? Many garages have experienced loosing streaks… Losing streaks are very different from not bidding for a route at all. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 30, 2024 14:26:35 GMT
However the SL2 was gained and sent to DX plus the 150 & 175 retained so it’s pretty obvious the company has interest in keeping the site open. What point are you trying to make here? Many garages have experienced loosing streaks… Losing streaks are very different from not bidding for a route at all. Correct… and other companies have done the same not bidding for Routes… The previous incumbent of the 404 did not bid. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 30, 2024 14:38:32 GMT
They are under new management so it is possible that the ethos coming from up top has changed. I get the feeling DB did not want to invest in Arriva UK Bus, whilst the messages coming out of I Squared suggest a little more willingness to invest, but who knows what is going on behind the scenes. Sure those in the know are unable to divulge. Completely agree, the long term aim is going to be to sell Arriva off so they will need to inflate the value. The issue however is Private Equity raises capital to do so by using the same companies and financial power from the General Partners put in charge of turning the company around, which in turn leads the company down a road where it has to pay back the original lender if things don't actually take a turn for the better which is when divisions start getting wound up as a result. But they are not unique in London Bus operators being owned by fund managers ... so the playing field is levelled .. eg Stagecoach, Go-Ahead. Even the TUK management buyout has financiers behind it expecting a profit. Only RATP and Metroline are free from this, but then they have parent company's making demands, and in Arriva's case, sure they are relieved to be free of the shackles of their former parent. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 30, 2024 14:48:01 GMT
Completely agree, the long term aim is going to be to sell Arriva off so they will need to inflate the value. The issue however is Private Equity raises capital to do so by using the same companies and financial power from the General Partners put in charge of turning the company around, which in turn leads the company down a road where it has to pay back the original lender if things don't actually take a turn for the better which is when divisions start getting wound up as a result. But they are not unique in London Bus operators being owned by fund managers ... so the playing field is levelled .. eg Stagecoach, Go-Ahead. Even the TUK management buyout has financiers behind it expecting a profit. Only RATP and Metroline are free from this, but then they have parent company's making demands, and in Arriva's case, sure they are relieved to be free of the shackles of their former parent. Private Equity is a division of fund management that plays very differently however, the aim is generally to rescue a failing business and to extract as much money from it as possible, while with Go Ahead and Stagecoach it's more so to ensure value is maintained as opposed to finding a desperate cash source. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 30, 2024 15:00:28 GMT
If its said that Arriva didn't bid for the 325, why would they bid for routes like the 330 and 241 that are not particularly near them? Probably can't rule them out, but I'd be very surprised if Arriva are even interested. They are under new management so it is possible that the ethos coming from up top has changed. I get the feeling DB did not want to invest in Arriva UK Bus, whilst the messages coming out of I Squared suggest a little more willingness to invest, but who knows what is going on behind the scenes. Sure those in the know are unable to divulge. How many times have they changed management since the Arriva London name was established upon replacing the Cowie and other associated brands? |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 30, 2024 15:00:29 GMT
But they are not unique in London Bus operators being owned by fund managers ... so the playing field is levelled .. eg Stagecoach, Go-Ahead. Even the TUK management buyout has financiers behind it expecting a profit. Only RATP and Metroline are free from this, but then they have parent company's making demands, and in Arriva's case, sure they are relieved to be free of the shackles of their former parent. Private Equity is a division of fund management that plays very differently however, the aim is generally to rescue a failing business and to extract as much money from it as possible, while with Go Ahead and Stagecoach it's more so to ensure value is maintained as opposed to finding a desperate cash source. It depends on the investment portfolio of private equity asset management. In the case of Go Ahead their new parent company has a specific interest and specialty in the public transport sector. So they may be more willing to make long term growth investments within their existing and expanded portfolio. I’d say of the three the Arriva one is probably the most risky given how much was stripped out under DB but there are already strong signs of solid investments. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 30, 2024 15:17:04 GMT
I know I am the unofficial Arriva DX fan but really wouldn’t count them out on upcoming east London tenders. Go Ahead RR and DS must be very close to full with the 129 and SL4 due to come over next year. Stagecoach are moving out of WH so space is at a premium in east London garages. If its said that Arriva didn't bid for the 325, why would they bid for routes like the 330 and 241 that are not particularly near them? Probably can't rule them out, but I'd be very surprised if Arriva are even interested. It could be the case that Arriva didn't want to electrify DX at that point, and didn't have any newer existing SDs to bid for the 325 with. But Arriva now have existing hybrids from the 405 and SL1, which could be used to bid for routes like the 304 or 474. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 30, 2024 15:21:18 GMT
If its said that Arriva didn't bid for the 325, why would they bid for routes like the 330 and 241 that are not particularly near them? Probably can't rule them out, but I'd be very surprised if Arriva are even interested. It could be the case that Arriva didn't want to electrify DX at that point, and didn't have any newer existing SDs to bid for the 325 with. But Arriva now have existing hybrids from the 405 and SL1, which could be used to bid for routes like the 304 or 474. It could, but we are using opinions based in hearsay as facts. |
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Post by DW221 on Oct 30, 2024 17:55:35 GMT
This has got to be one of the most baseless comments here, the 325 bid wouldn't have been compliant with the ENLs regardless and therefore wouldn't have had a bearing on whether Arriva bid. Arriva clearly had a reason they didn't go for it, but the fact it was to release the ENLs is laughable. However the SL2 was gained and sent to DX plus the 150 & 175 retained so it’s pretty obvious the company has interest in keeping the site open. What point are you trying to make here? Many garages have experienced loosing streaks… Overall I’m very happy DX got some new work and retained their last two regular routes and prevents all of East London just being ran by Stagecoach and Go Ahead.. Now the next step for the firm is to bring back the 128 and 173 to their rightful home 😍 doubt that would happen though. Overall the speculation about DX closing wasnt needed to be fair. At least everyone in the DX hate camp was proved wrong…. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 30, 2024 20:22:29 GMT
However the SL2 was gained and sent to DX plus the 150 & 175 retained so it’s pretty obvious the company has interest in keeping the site open. What point are you trying to make here? Many garages have experienced loosing streaks… Overall I’m very happy DX got some new work and retained their last two regular routes and prevents all of East London just being ran by Stagecoach and Go Ahead.. Now the next step for the firm is to bring back the 128 and 173 to their rightful home 😍 doubt that would happen though. Overall the speculation about DX closing wasnt needed to be fair. At least everyone in the DX hate camp was proved wrong…. DX intentionally didn't bid for one route, they then lost the route that would have gained new electrics. Then kept two routes on 3 year contracts despite all other routes in the exact same tranche got longer contracts. Think the stars align quite well for all the remaining work to come up within a very short window again. I'd also argue the 128 and 173 are at their rightful homes now. It's well and good having buses with ivory poles running around as people like variety, but once you live on a terribly operated route you just want an operator that can do the job properly and get you to where you need to go, which at least with the 173 would never happen. |
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Post by WH241 on Oct 30, 2024 20:45:06 GMT
Overall I’m very happy DX got some new work and retained their last two regular routes and prevents all of East London just being ran by Stagecoach and Go Ahead.. Now the next step for the firm is to bring back the 128 and 173 to their rightful home 😍 doubt that would happen though. Overall the speculation about DX closing wasnt needed to be fair. At least everyone in the DX hate camp was proved wrong…. DX intentionally didn't bid for one route, they then lost the route that would have gained new electrics. Then kept two routes on 3 year contracts despite all other routes in the exact same tranche got longer contracts. Think the stars align quite well for all the remaining work to come up within a very short window again. I'd also argue the 128 and 173 are at their rightful homes now. It's well and good having buses with ivory poles running around as people like variety, but once you live on a terribly operated route you just want an operator that can do the job properly and get you to where you need to go, which at least with the 173 would never happen. I would take Arriva buses over Go Ahead and its constantly regulated buses. There is no point anyone even trying to engage with you anything Arriva as you clearly have a vendetta and very sour grapes over something in the past.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 30, 2024 20:51:15 GMT
DX intentionally didn't bid for one route, they then lost the route that would have gained new electrics. Then kept two routes on 3 year contracts despite all other routes in the exact same tranche got longer contracts. Think the stars align quite well for all the remaining work to come up within a very short window again. I'd also argue the 128 and 173 are at their rightful homes now. It's well and good having buses with ivory poles running around as people like variety, but once you live on a terribly operated route you just want an operator that can do the job properly and get you to where you need to go, which at least with the 173 would never happen. I would take Arriva buses over Go Ahead and its constantly regulated buses. There is no point anyone even trying to engage with you anything Arriva as you clearly have a vendetta and very sour grapes over something in the past.
So you would rather buses speeding around not sticking to any sort of timetable? Not to mention Arriva are regulating SL2s all the time, as they rightly should be to keep them to timetable. As do Stagecoach as well so this isn't an issue isolated to Go Ahead. Go Ahead are simply running routes to the timetable. |
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Post by DW221 on Oct 30, 2024 20:52:58 GMT
Overall I’m very happy DX got some new work and retained their last two regular routes and prevents all of East London just being ran by Stagecoach and Go Ahead.. Now the next step for the firm is to bring back the 128 and 173 to their rightful home 😍 doubt that would happen though. Overall the speculation about DX closing wasnt needed to be fair. At least everyone in the DX hate camp was proved wrong…. DX intentionally didn't bid for one route, they then lost the route that would have gained new electrics. Then kept two routes on 3 year contracts despite all other routes in the exact same tranche got longer contracts. Think the stars align quite well for all the remaining work to come up within a very short window again. I'd also argue the 128 and 173 are at their rightful homes now. It's well and good having buses with ivory poles running around as people like variety, but once you live on a terribly operated route you just want an operator that can do the job properly and get you to where you need to go, which at least with the 173 would never happen. Overall I’d still think 3 years of a hybrid contract is better than nothing since lots of people were speculating they wouldnt even bid for them! Seems like an acomplishment. With the right effort and management theres still a chance DX could support electrics in the future. The same way people are all of a sudden speculating the immenent demise of DT… theres also been plenty routes following the trend of 3 year contract awards too. I have nothing against Stagecoach in fact I have a soft spot for them having grown up with their services throughout my whole life. Strictly speaking though 150 and 175 are operated to an exceptional standard (allbeit the odd 175 turn to Dagenham Heathway) so was very happy to see them stay with the Ts and DWs also sticking round longer. SL2 though I dont really give them much grief for since Stagecoach and GAL would struggle to run it in the same way. With the 128 most of the time when I used the route with Arriva it was ran to be pretty decent standard, same with Stagecoach so I wont comment on that, the VLAs were just the icon of the route so was a shame to see it lost 173 cant really judge them on that to be fair as like with the SL2 any operator will struggle to operate the route 100% as the A13 is unpredictable as it is. 66 396 other examples when the A12 is screwed up.. I wouldnt give Stagecoach any grief for bad service on the 173 ethier for the same reason. |
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