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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 26, 2021 20:07:33 GMT
It does seem rather wasteful to be using 4/5 year old hybrids on a school service. In what way is it wasteful? Well you have routes like the 220 running through pollution hotspots 24h a day using conventional diesel with no stop start with hybrids on paper (theoretically) only doing a couple of journeys a day. In reality like you said they will probably stray onto other routes and have more use.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 20:23:35 GMT
I don’t understand this notion of why they must do more substantial work - they aren’t going to stick rigidly to the 698 if it does eventually move into SO and even if it doesn’t, it’s not a big deal. I don’t understand why they’ll have to stand down after this contract? It's a personal opinion of mine. They're interesting types and I'd rather they be more accessible to enthusiasts like myself. But I also understand the logistical reasons behind the move and that's obviously more important than enthusiasts. Not entirely sure how school contracts work but if it's given an extension the contract will be out in 2028, meaning those buses will be nearly 12 years old. Who knows what will happen to them in that time. They’ll be on the N5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 20:28:33 GMT
In what way is it wasteful? Well you have routes like the 220 running through pollution hotspots 24h a day using conventional diesel with no stop start with hybrids on paper (theoretically) only doing a couple of journeys a day. In reality like you said they will probably stray onto other routes and have more use. That is a fault of a tendering system where operators are required to submit multiple options and a broken TfL which only considers cheapest options at this point.
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Post by cc2005 on Jun 26, 2021 20:41:03 GMT
The legal address on RATP buses are changing. I assume all United/Sovereign buses will follow in due course.
Seen quite a few ADHs on the E3 today with a new legal address:
RATP Dev UK Ltd Garrick House Stamford Brook Bus Garage London W4 1SY
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 21:36:37 GMT
The legal address on RATP buses are changing. I assume all United/Sovereign buses will follow in due course. Seen quite a few ADHs on the E3 today with a new legal address: RATP Dev UK Ltd Garrick House Stamford Brook Bus Garage London W4 1SY Think that happened last year, there was a huge debate here over where the exact offices were at Fulwell.
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Post by Volvo on Jun 26, 2021 22:42:03 GMT
Refurb looks hideous. A shame VHR's, good newish buses, being used on school services. Also confused why would bother refurbing given that it will only ever work the 698. Can understand why they are working the 698 given they slot into the PVR rather nicely, however they deserve to be doing more substantial work. I guess they could work the H12 being the only other DD route at CP, but I find that very unlikely. Frustrating RATP were awarded another contract on the 698 because once that contract runs out they will probably have to stand down. H12 no longer has an allocation at CP. I don't know why LBR still has H12 being run from CP as the 4 buses that were stationed at CP were moved a long long time ago now. Can't even remember when but the H12 and 251 moved back to BT a long while ago.
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Post by YX10FFN on Jun 26, 2021 23:29:40 GMT
I have only just realised that the last two EB based TfL routes were also the first two all the way back in 1997. Still sad to see it closing after all these years. EB was a victim of its location and of the market power RATP held. After Epsom Coaches was bought it really was only a matter of time, the location of the garage was inconvenient for future gains and after converting most of its routes to RATP standard stock, had no more need for the garage to exist. It really is a shame when you consider the amount of routes Epsom Coaches once ran in the area as an independent company and the genuinely interesting types they'd throw on them. RIP. Try find another bus company where you can pick up a travel brochure after boarding!
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Post by vjaska on Jun 27, 2021 1:10:43 GMT
I have only just realised that the last two EB based TfL routes were also the first two all the way back in 1997. Still sad to see it closing after all these years. EB was a victim of its location and of the market power RATP held. After Epsom Coaches was bought it really was only a matter of time, the location of the garage was inconvenient for future gains and after converting most of its routes to RATP standard stock, had no more need for the garage to exist. It really is a shame when you consider the amount of routes Epsom Coaches once ran in the area as an independent company and the genuinely interesting types they'd throw on them. RIP. Try find another bus company where you can pick up a travel brochure after boarding! I believe the land it sat was on valuable which was the main reason it won't be sticking around, a lot of money had been spent on it modernising it over the years - it is far from inconvenient for future gains as it would of given RATP a good launch pad to battle Go-Ahead & Abellio for Sutton related routes in an area where Go-Ahead is by far the dominant operator with Abellio picking up the odd route and I'd imagine a base like that would of been lower cost to run compared to A for instance.
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Post by COBO on Jun 27, 2021 2:13:03 GMT
Where are the VHs for the 418 coming from?
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Post by snowman on Jun 27, 2021 6:10:47 GMT
Where are the VHs for the 418 coming from? The batches are being swapped around a bit, as the buses need to have a refurb for new contract However the 65 converting to BCEs provide the source of extra VHs All the school routes at both TV and FW will be converting to VH in Autumn as well. By the end of the year TV won’t have any ADEs or SPs (just VHs for double decks), Fulwell will just have BCE and VH double decks
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Post by dashing0ne on Jun 27, 2021 7:46:26 GMT
It's a personal opinion of mine. They're interesting types and I'd rather they be more accessible to enthusiasts like myself. But I also understand the logistical reasons behind the move and that's obviously more important than enthusiasts. Not entirely sure how school contracts work but if it's given an extension the contract will be out in 2028, meaning those buses will be nearly 12 years old. Who knows what will happen to them in that time. They’ll be on the N5 Is this confirmed?
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Post by dashing0ne on Jun 27, 2021 7:49:57 GMT
Where are the VHs for the 418 coming from? The batches are being swapped around a bit, as the buses need to have a refurb for new contract However the 65 converting to BCEs provide the source of extra VHs All the school routes at both TV and FW will be converting to VH in Autumn as well. By the end of the year TV won’t have any ADEs or SPs (just VHs for double decks), Fulwell will just have BCE and VH double decks 1. What about routes 467 and 293D, which are at TV, they will stay ADE?
2. Appearantly, routes 613 and 662 have recently (29 April 2020) converted from VH operation to ADE operation, is this true, or has it always stayed VH?
3. I assume, for school routes, you are excluding TV's rte 665 which is single deck.
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 27, 2021 8:21:50 GMT
In what way is it wasteful? Well you have routes like the 220 running through pollution hotspots 24h a day using conventional diesel with no stop start with hybrids on paper (theoretically) only doing a couple of journeys a day. In reality like you said they will probably stray onto other routes and have more use. Running pure diesels in pollution hotspots is not the issue it once was now that all buses on TfL service meet the EuroVI emissions standard.
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Post by snowman on Jun 27, 2021 9:50:52 GMT
The batches are being swapped around a bit, as the buses need to have a refurb for new contract However the 65 converting to BCEs provide the source of extra VHs All the school routes at both TV and FW will be converting to VH in Autumn as well. By the end of the year TV won’t have any ADEs or SPs (just VHs for double decks), Fulwell will just have BCE and VH double decks 1. What about routes 467 and 293D, which are at TV, they will stay ADE? 2. Appearantly, routes 613 and 662 have recently (29 April 2020) converted from VH operation to ADE operation, is this true, or has it always stayed VH? 3. I assume, for school routes, you are excluding TV's rte 665 which is single deck.
Was only discussing double deck. The ADEs will be around at TV for few more months (there aren’t enough buses to replace them until BCEs release VHs from 65) I have heard rumours (but take with a pinch of salt for now) that the ADEs will move to the Hounslow area and finish off the remaining months of contract on routes like H32 allowing final SPs to leave. (the 111 is awaiting tender results and that is majority of the about 40 SPs without defined replacement). There could be a demand for buses upgraded to euroVI (as lots of provincial cities are also introducing LEZs over next 12 months), but remains to be seen what the market appetite is for 100 Scania buses
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Post by YX10FFN on Jun 27, 2021 10:32:30 GMT
The batches are being swapped around a bit, as the buses need to have a refurb for new contract However the 65 converting to BCEs provide the source of extra VHs All the school routes at both TV and FW will be converting to VH in Autumn as well. By the end of the year TV won’t have any ADEs or SPs (just VHs for double decks), Fulwell will just have BCE and VH double decks 1. What about routes 467 and 293D, which are at TV, they will stay ADE?
2. Appearantly, routes 613 and 662 have recently (29 April 2020) converted from VH operation to ADE operation, is this true, or has it always stayed VH?
3. I assume, for school routes, you are excluding TV's rte 665 which is single deck.
Total PVR of all routes you've mentioned: 18 If VH27-38 transfers to TV after they've been freed up (24, 25 and 26 are already at TV which suggests this will be the batch) the total number of VHs at TV will be 22. Should be plenty from there. For reference, total PVR of all FW routes set to recieve/keep VHs after the electric conversion: 32 Total number of VHs which will remain at FW if the 15 reg batch goes to TV: 34
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