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Post by YX10FFN on Jun 22, 2022 11:41:02 GMT
Simple answer is that traditional garages cost a lot of money to maintain. Some are needed for bus maintenance. Open air parking on industrial estates is much cheaper. Exactly that, a speaker at the recent Detling event was saying how the onset of electrification means some 'tradition' garage's are likely to be replaced with open air facilities. In Inner London, areas such as where V is, by and large you do not have the luxury of industrial mega estates with large open air sites for electric operation. They will have to work with what they have for the mean time. “Traditional” garages such as S and HT have successfully adopted large electric programs, so it is possible.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 22, 2022 11:52:20 GMT
Exactly that, a speaker at the recent Detling event was saying how the onset of electrification means some 'tradition' garage's are likely to be replaced with open air facilities. In Inner London, areas such as where V is, you do not have the luxury of industrial mega estates with large open air sites for electric operation. They will have to work with what they have for the mean time. “Traditional” garages such as S and HT have successfully adopted large electric programs, so it is possible. Still be interesting to see if Sutton gets adapted or whether the potentially spare buses from the 14/74 and current hybrids on the 80/93/154 and 119s will all be gathered up to put off having to find a solution for another 7 years.
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Jun 22, 2022 11:56:55 GMT
In Inner London, areas such as where V is, you do not have the luxury of industrial mega estates with large open air sites for electric operation. They will have to work with what they have for the mean time. “Traditional” garages such as S and HT have successfully adopted large electric programs, so it is possible. Still be interesting to see if Sutton gets adapted or whether the potentially spare buses from the 14/74 and current hybrids on the 80/93/154 and 119s will all be gathered up to put off having to find a solution for another 7 years. The latter methinks
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 22, 2022 12:22:38 GMT
Still be interesting to see if Sutton gets adapted or whether the potentially spare buses from the 14/74 and current hybrids on the 80/93/154 and 119s will all be gathered up to put off having to find a solution for another 7 years. The latter methinks That could be a trend that operators do try not to have to do every garage in the next couple of years to see how things pan out. RA had a big investment when in reality the 507 could easily go into SW now to replace the 11 and be closed when the 521 is withdrawn.
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Post by WH241 on Jun 22, 2022 12:33:02 GMT
That could be a trend that operators do try not to have to do every garage in the next couple of years to see how things pan out. RA had a big investment when in reality the 507 could easily go into SW now to replace the 11 and be closed when the 521 is withdrawn. But as you just said a big investment has been made at RA so makes sense to keep it open! Why go to the trouble of having to install chargers for the 507 at SW? I don’t get the logic of when a route is lost at a garage an assumption is made a route moved in from another garage therefore depriving that garage of work!
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Post by YX10FFN on Jun 22, 2022 12:37:32 GMT
That could be a trend that operators do try not to have to do every garage in the next couple of years to see how things pan out. RA had a big investment when in reality the 507 could easily go into SW now to replace the 11 and be closed when the 521 is withdrawn. But as you just said a big investment has been made at RA so makes sense to keep it open! Why go to the trouble of having to install chargers for the 507 at SW? I don’t get the logic of when a route is lost at a garage an assumption is made a route moved in from another garage therefore depriving that garage of work! Because apparently if garages are not full they should be immediately nominated for closure
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 22, 2022 12:54:57 GMT
In Inner London, areas such as where V is, you do not have the luxury of industrial mega estates with large open air sites for electric operation. They will have to work with what they have for the mean time. “Traditional” garages such as S and HT have successfully adopted large electric programs, so it is possible. Still be interesting to see if Sutton gets adapted or whether the potentially spare buses from the 14/74 and current hybrids on the 80/93/154 and 119s will all be gathered up to put off having to find a solution for another 7 years. It depends if Go Ahead can negotiate to keep the older DOEs on these routes for longer until more hybrids become available. If the 14/74 changes do go ahead, it might not be for a while. My prediction would be for new electrics. If electrification significantly reduces capacity at Sutton, one route could move out such as the 93 to AL. Probably new SEes for the 163/164 too, and the current 65reg SEs used to withdraw the remaining SOEs on the 152.
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Post by snowman on Jun 22, 2022 12:57:29 GMT
Exactly that, a speaker at the recent Detling event was saying how the onset of electrification means some 'tradition' garage's are likely to be replaced with open air facilities. In Inner London, areas such as where V is, by and large you do not have the luxury of industrial mega estates with large open air sites for electric operation. They will have to work with what they have for the mean time. “Traditional” garages such as S and HT have successfully adopted large electric programs, so it is possible. Spare industrial land is not that common in many parts of London, even many old railway goods and loco depots have already been built over. Decent parking areas are often taken over by courier and parcels companies to use as distribution hubs. Much more realistic in these areas is mixed used development, with an electric bus garage under something else (you couldn’t easily do it with old garages that had to be ventilated, and anyone who remembers diesel emissions about 20-30 years ago will understand (there were places where could smell and almost taste the fumes)
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Post by snowman on Jun 22, 2022 13:10:01 GMT
It looks like they are finally getting the allocations in order. I noticed one of the BEs that was covering at S has now made it to FW too. Situation with BCEs (at wrong location) is : BCE 47058, 60, 63, 66, 68, 69, 73, 76, 79 (9 buses) at FW (to move to SO) BCE 47126-137 (12 buses) stored, not yet in service (for 183) BCE 47138-141 (4 buses) at SO (due to move to BT for 125) BCE 47142-156 (16 buses) at FW (due to move to BT for 125) so Fulwell has 7 extra buses, SO has one extra
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 22, 2022 13:13:40 GMT
Still be interesting to see if Sutton gets adapted or whether the potentially spare buses from the 14/74 and current hybrids on the 80/93/154 and 119s will all be gathered up to put off having to find a solution for another 7 years. It depends if Go Ahead can negotiate to keep the older DOEs on these routes for longer until more hybrids become available. If the 14/74 changes do go ahead, it might not be for a while. My prediction would be for new electrics. If electrification significantly reduces capacity at Sutton, one route could move out such as the 93 to AL. Probably new SEes for the 163/164 too, and the current 65reg SEs used to withdraw the remaining SOEs on the 152. If the 14/74 changes go ahead and GAL don’t win the 85 or 265 it would make far more sense to have the 93 reallocated to AF than it would AL. The 93 could even use the native AF hybrids without the need for electric conversion. The dead run on each end would be pretty much the same, slightly less even on the Putney Bridge to AF side. Whereas the cost of AL basing would increase as long dead runs would be needed on each end. It would also avoid the issue of having to move the 44 to SW to make space for the 93 as there isn’t room at AL for the 93 and it’s existing allocation. Losing the 14/74 could also allow the 39/485 to move to AF as well as potentially allowing PL to close permanently.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 22, 2022 13:13:51 GMT
Still be interesting to see if Sutton gets adapted or whether the potentially spare buses from the 14/74 and current hybrids on the 80/93/154 and 119s will all be gathered up to put off having to find a solution for another 7 years. It depends if Go Ahead can negotiate to keep the older DOEs on these routes for longer until more hybrids become available. If the 14/74 changes do go ahead, it might not be for a while. My prediction would be for new electrics. If electrification significantly reduces capacity at Sutton, one route could move out such as the 93 to AL. Probably new SEes for the 163/164 too, and the current 65reg SEs used to withdraw the remaining SOEs on the 152. There might be quite a few 12m SEes spare from the 507 and 521 which will need utilising. The 163/164 directly or indirectly could be a good place for Go Ahead. This may explain all the TBCs to see the results of the consultation.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 22, 2022 13:19:59 GMT
In Inner London, areas such as where V is, by and large you do not have the luxury of industrial mega estates with large open air sites for electric operation. They will have to work with what they have for the mean time. “Traditional” garages such as S and HT have successfully adopted large electric programs, so it is possible. Spare industrial land is not that common in many parts of London, even many old railway goods and loco depots have already been built over. Decent parking areas are often taken over by courier and parcels companies to use as distribution hubs. Much more realistic in these areas is mixed used development, with an electric bus garage under something else (you couldn’t easily do it with old garages that had to be ventilated, and anyone who remembers diesel emissions about 20-30 years ago will understand (there were places where could smell and almost taste the fumes) The speaker at Detling suggested exactly that sort of thing and how sites that are used as car parks during the day could possibly be used for bus parking overnight.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jun 22, 2022 13:21:57 GMT
It depends if Go Ahead can negotiate to keep the older DOEs on these routes for longer until more hybrids become available. If the 14/74 changes do go ahead, it might not be for a while. My prediction would be for new electrics. If electrification significantly reduces capacity at Sutton, one route could move out such as the 93 to AL. Probably new SEes for the 163/164 too, and the current 65reg SEs used to withdraw the remaining SOEs on the 152. There might be quite a few 12m SEes spare from the 507 and 521 which will need utilising. The 163/164 directly or indirectly could be a good place for Go Ahead. This may explain all the TBCs to see the results of the consultation. The left hand turn from Kingston Road into Hartfield Road might stall 12m vehicles.
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Post by greenboy on Jun 22, 2022 13:23:32 GMT
That could be a trend that operators do try not to have to do every garage in the next couple of years to see how things pan out. RA had a big investment when in reality the 507 could easily go into SW now to replace the 11 and be closed when the 521 is withdrawn. Yes RA did have a big investment but there were no guarantees beyond the 507/521 contracts and obviously at the time nobody could have forseen the pandemic and how that would change things.
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Post by COBO on Jun 22, 2022 13:30:25 GMT
It depends if Go Ahead can negotiate to keep the older DOEs on these routes for longer until more hybrids become available. If the 14/74 changes do go ahead, it might not be for a while. My prediction would be for new electrics. If electrification significantly reduces capacity at Sutton, one route could move out such as the 93 to AL. Probably new SEes for the 163/164 too, and the current 65reg SEs used to withdraw the remaining SOEs on the 152. If the 14/74 changes go ahead and GAL don’t win the 85 or 265 it would make far more sense to have the 93 reallocated to AF than it would AL. The 93 could even use the native AF hybrids without the need for electric conversion. The dead run on each end would be pretty much the same, slightly less even on the Putney Bridge to AF side. Whereas the cost of AL basing would increase as long dead runs would be needed on each end. It would also avoid the issue of having to move the 44 to SW to make space for the 93 as there isn’t room at AL for the 93 and it’s existing allocation. Losing the 14/74 could also allow the 39/485 to move to AF as well as potentially allowing PL to close permanently. Where the 493 go to make PL close permanently?
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