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Post by borneobus on Sept 26, 2024 0:46:08 GMT
I think even the most casual observer here would see how biased the forum can be towards RATP. Even when they are improving that gets glossed over quickly. Most of the members who comment negatively regarding RATP's performance are locals as you say or those who frequently rely on their routes. Locals themselves who quite often doesn't really consider what operator it is or whatsoever, but will only point out once a negative service is arising. You don't see those in Southeast London complaining about Go Ahead or Stagecoach. Rather it's aimed instead on external factors on the lines of roadworks, congestion etc. The statements from this can very much tell those two operators are operating at point most of the time without any mess ups. So why are there still complaints of certain routes in North West and West London if those areas are much known for harh traffic conditions? Why aren't people instead complaining about Transport UK or Metroline routes instead of RATP? It's to put it simply, they know at least how to handle scenarios of service disruption (mostly). Do you see complaints of the 260, 182, 140, 251, 237? Not really that much despite there hard conditions operating. They still reach the service on point unlike some of their counterparts, looking at you SL9, 183, 266, 226 etc. Looking at RATP the handling of situations involve just them pulling it's hair off either by leaving long gaps, abounding sections in particular where users are left without a service as well as stupidly long driver changeovers. I won't forget as many here in the reports of 142 services constantly blocking Edgware bus station for a single changeover. Unfortunately until such improvement comes (which I doubt there will be looking at the state from this company) there will continue to be comments on the negativity with RATP. If such improvement happens, I can guarantee these comments including from myself will slow down. I do find it quite bizarre at the same time for people trying to defend this company seems to either not live anywhere near an RATP route or is very stuck up in their head trying to justify their position on doing such so. On the other hand, I'm very baffling to my self on how did RATP make the service on the 13 worse than it's days at Tower Transit or even X services in general. I wonder? Of course it would be nay on impossible to gather the data, and how/what would be measured would be open to question but it would be fascinating to see metrics relating to length of changeover 'sliced & diced' by Operator / Garage / Route / Location of changeover / Day / Time of Day etc. and analysis undertaken into the outliers...both good and bad. I am more than happy to be corrected by forum members (e.g. drivers) living this day to day but driver changeovers must be one of a number of key factors that inform the robustness, discipline and overall operational performance of a route. Personally, I've waited 1 minute for a changeover at E on the 307 and 20 minutes for a changeover at W on a 332...and most things in-between...but in isolation these snap-shots / anecdotes are fairly meaningless.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 26, 2024 1:07:30 GMT
I think even the most casual observer here would see how biased the forum can be towards RATP. Even when they are improving that gets glossed over quickly. Most of the members who comment negatively regarding RATP's performance are locals as you say or those who frequently rely on their routes. Locals themselves who quite often doesn't really consider what operator it is or whatsoever, but will only point out once a negative service is arising. You don't see those in Southeast London complaining about Go Ahead or Stagecoach. Rather it's aimed instead on external factors on the lines of roadworks, congestion etc. The statements from this can very much tell those two operators are operating at point most of the time without any mess ups. So why are there still complaints of certain routes in North West and West London if those areas are much known for harh traffic conditions? Why aren't people instead complaining about Transport UK or Metroline routes instead of RATP? It's to put it simply, they know at least how to handle scenarios of service disruption (mostly). Do you see complaints of the 260, 182, 140, 251, 237? Not really that much despite there hard conditions operating. They still reach the service on point unlike some of their counterparts, looking at you SL9, 183, 266, 226 etc. Looking at RATP the handling of situations involve just them pulling it's hair off either by leaving long gaps, abounding sections in particular where users are left without a service as well as stupidly long driver changeovers. I won't forget as many here in the reports of 142 services constantly blocking Edgware bus station for a single changeover. Unfortunately until such improvement comes (which I doubt there will be looking at the state from this company) there will continue to be comments on the negativity with RATP. If such improvement happens, I can guarantee these comments including from myself will slow down. I do find it quite bizarre at the same time for people trying to defend this company seems to either not live anywhere near an RATP route or is very stuck up in their head trying to justify their position on doing such so. On the other hand, I'm very baffling to my self on how did RATP make the service on the 13 worse than it's days at Tower Transit or even X services in general. I wonder? Regarding Transport UK in particular, there has been complaints about them on here as well both from people over in West London and from myself and others in South London regarding certain routes (196 & 322 from me). I have no dog in the RATP fight given the 57 hasn't been operated by them for a while now but I do think some opinions from both sides in that debate aren't particularly helpful and people should really comment on the stuff they see in that instance rather than start mentioning things they don't. That's just my own view on it from an outsider.
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Post by cardinal on Sept 26, 2024 4:30:20 GMT
I'm sorry, but I can tell you from my own experience of using many different RATP routes very regularly, alongside what I have heard from people both in real life and on this forum, that this "bias" towards RATP that you claim is a thing just does not exist, and they are genuinely just a very poor operator who get a deserved amount of complaints. If you had to cope with using RATP routes daily then you would understand, but with the way you constantly defend them in your posts, it is very very clear you are not a regular user of any RATP route. If a lot of people are saying the same thing I tend to think it's unlikely that they're all wrong, I'm only an occasional user of RATP routes but I've had bad experiences on routes like the 49 65 and 220 when other routes in the vicinity seemed to be operated normally. If others chose not to believe that then that's up to them but there's no room for sentiment in business and poor service providers are going to get called out. And can anybody explain why the 65 changeover point cannot be moved to Richmond as has been suggested on here several times? It seems such an obvious way to improve the service. The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate.
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Post by greenboy on Sept 26, 2024 5:52:39 GMT
If a lot of people are saying the same thing I tend to think it's unlikely that they're all wrong, I'm only an occasional user of RATP routes but I've had bad experiences on routes like the 49 65 and 220 when other routes in the vicinity seemed to be operated normally. If others chose not to believe that then that's up to them but there's no room for sentiment in business and poor service providers are going to get called out. And can anybody explain why the 65 changeover point cannot be moved to Richmond as has been suggested on here several times? It seems such an obvious way to improve the service. The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate. Poorly performing routes are called out regardless of operator, Sullivans were regularly criticised on here. There's no vendetta against RATP that I'm aware of, people just call it as they see it.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 26, 2024 8:31:45 GMT
If a lot of people are saying the same thing I tend to think it's unlikely that they're all wrong, I'm only an occasional user of RATP routes but I've had bad experiences on routes like the 49 65 and 220 when other routes in the vicinity seemed to be operated normally. If others chose not to believe that then that's up to them but there's no room for sentiment in business and poor service providers are going to get called out. And can anybody explain why the 65 changeover point cannot be moved to Richmond as has been suggested on here several times? It seems such an obvious way to improve the service. The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate. However people don't wake up one day and decide to take on RATP, I'm not even from that part of London and dread to even go near their services because without fail I nearly always get sent in circles. If this is just even a snippet of what's happening then I'm very glad issues in the East anyway are minimised by Stagecoach and Go Ahead. Poor operation on the EL2 tends to be limited to just an odd bunching here and there. I was in Paris earlier this week, we are often ignorant as Londoners how good we have the service here. The bus service there is abysmal and very poorly operated.
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Post by DE20106 on Sept 26, 2024 9:52:31 GMT
The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate. However people don't wake up one day and decide to take on RATP, I'm not even from that part of London and dread to even go near their services because without fail I nearly always get sent in circles. If this is just even a snippet of what's happening then I'm very glad issues in the East anyway are minimised by Stagecoach and Go Ahead. Poor operation on the EL2 tends to be limited to just an odd bunching here and there. I was in Paris earlier this week, we are often ignorant as Londoners how good we have the service here. The bus service there is abysmal and very poorly operated. And I believe Paris’s buses run as single deckers don’t they? In a city around 3m more populous than London!
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Post by LK65EBO on Sept 26, 2024 9:53:39 GMT
The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate. Poorly performing routes are called out regardless of operator, Sullivans were regularly criticised on here. There's no vendetta against RATP that I'm aware of, people just call it as they see it. It’s interesting how no one cares when TUK gets criticised but when, it happens to RATP it triggers people from the opposite side of London.
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Post by londonbuses on Sept 26, 2024 10:23:18 GMT
If a lot of people are saying the same thing I tend to think it's unlikely that they're all wrong, I'm only an occasional user of RATP routes but I've had bad experiences on routes like the 49 65 and 220 when other routes in the vicinity seemed to be operated normally. If others chose not to believe that then that's up to them but there's no room for sentiment in business and poor service providers are going to get called out. And can anybody explain why the 65 changeover point cannot be moved to Richmond as has been suggested on here several times? It seems such an obvious way to improve the service. The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate. As you said yourself, no-one is going to come on this forum and post that their bus is on time, so given the amount of complaints on here (and previously on the Sullivans thread for that matter), does that not show you that generally other operators services are on time and operated well? No-one is claiming other operators don't have poorly performing routes either - for example, GALs atrocious operation on the 265 is one of the worst things I've ever seen. The difference is that most of their routes are not poorly performing, compared to RATP where so many routes are operated badly.
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Post by DE20106 on Sept 26, 2024 11:08:55 GMT
The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate. As you said yourself, no-one is going to come on this forum and post that their bus is on time, so given the amount of complaints on here (and previously on the Sullivans thread for that matter), does that not show you that generally other operators services are on time and operated well? No-one is claiming other operators don't have poorly performing routes either - for example, GALs atrocious operation on the 265 is one of the worst things I've ever seen. The difference is that most of their routes are not poorly performing, compared to RATP where so many routes are operated badly. We do see reports of good operation, but not as many. I think it’s important to highlight where things have gone well. Similar to what you say, with bad reviews, if you experience a good experience you’re 10% likely to write a review about it. With a bad experience, you’re 90%+ likely to write a review about it. I have noticed a considerable improvement in RATP operations in the last few months, backed up by their improvements in the league tables. I think there is a combination of multiple things here. RATP do have some absolute stinker routes to try and run, proportionately moreso than other operators imo. The 18, 65, 220, 266, 295 just to name a few. However there’s one thing I can’t get away from. The 28 under RATP was a total car crash, which some would say is poor operation, and others would say (which I was more on the side of) no operator could do better due to the horrific traffic conditions. But since Metroline have taken it on, I can’t ignore the fact they seem to be doing considerably better under the same conditions. That then makes me think how much better Metroline *could* do if they had the likes of the 65. They’d still the same challenges obviously, but could they ride the wave better. I think a good barometer of the difference between the two would be how much better Metroline do when they take over the 266 in a couple of months. The other thing I also can’t get away from is how favourably RATP were looked at 6/7 years ago. One can’t really argue that everyone going from liking them to bashing them is a conspiracy by a group of people to suddenly hate them. The complaints (and the amount of them, about loads of routes from all over) must have come from somewhere. But the important thing is they are throwing back the badly performing routes and trying to improve things. And there is evidence they’re on the way to doing that, but they’ve still got a way to go obviously
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Post by vlw92 on Sept 26, 2024 11:20:38 GMT
As you said yourself, no-one is going to come on this forum and post that their bus is on time, so given the amount of complaints on here (and previously on the Sullivans thread for that matter), does that not show you that generally other operators services are on time and operated well? No-one is claiming other operators don't have poorly performing routes either - for example, GALs atrocious operation on the 265 is one of the worst things I've ever seen. The difference is that most of their routes are not poorly performing, compared to RATP where so many routes are operated badly. We do see reports of good operation, but not as many. I think it’s important to highlight where things have gone well. Similar to what you say, with bad reviews, if you experience a good experience you’re 10% likely to write a review about it. With a bad experience, you’re 90%+ likely to write a review about it. I have noticed a considerable improvement in RATP operations in the last few months, backed up by their improvements in the league tables. I think there is a combination of multiple things here. RATP do have some absolute stinker routes to try and run, proportionately moreso than other operators imo. The 18, 65, 220, 266, 295 just to name a few. However there’s one thing I can’t get away from. The 28 under RATP was a total car crash, which some would say is poor operation, and others would say (which I was more on the side of) no operator could do better due to the horrific traffic conditions. But since Metroline have taken it on, I can’t ignore the fact they seem to be doing considerably better under the same conditions. That then makes me think how much better Metroline *could* do if they had the likes of the 65. They’d still the same challenges obviously, but could they ride the wave better. I think a good barometer of the difference between the two would be how much better Metroline do when they take over the 266 in a couple of months. The other thing I also can’t get away from is how favourably RATP were looked at 6/7 years ago. One can’t really argue that everyone going from liking them to bashing them is a conspiracy by a group of people to suddenly hate them. The complaints (and the amount of them, about loads of routes from all over) must have come from somewhere. But the important thing is they are throwing back the badly performing routes and trying to improve things. And there is evidence they’re on the way to doing that, but they’ve still got a way to go obviously Cannot argue with that one bit. A work in progress and I said it 12-18 months ago. Like everything else in life it just takes time.
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Post by cardinal on Sept 26, 2024 11:44:26 GMT
The fact is though, there are loads of routes across London that perform poorly. Every operator has poorly performing routes. A regular user of the 65 can indeed comment and long gaps , bunching etc. There are no regular users of the 71, 423, SL10 to report a good service. From the latest stats these routes perform very well. Will regular users of the 65 or 125 post a comment here to say the bus they were waiting for came on time ? Of course not. It’s like selling newspapers , their audience isn’t interested. We also don’t have anyone regularly using a NW London route run by Metroline which hasn’t hit a performance target in several months. So pardon the cynic in me when I suggest again, that there is a small group of posters who will report negatively about ratp no matter what happens. This isn’t a dig anyone. This is a forum for discussion and debate. As you said yourself, no-one is going to come on this forum and post that their bus is on time, so given the amount of complaints on here (and previously on the Sullivans thread for that matter), does that not show you that generally other operators services are on time and operated well? No-one is claiming other operators don't have poorly performing routes either - for example, GALs atrocious operation on the 265 is one of the worst things I've ever seen. The difference is that most of their routes are not poorly performing, compared to RATP where so many routes are operated badly. Why are they improving on the charts then ? Do you not believe them ?
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Post by VMH2537 on Sept 26, 2024 13:07:57 GMT
As you said yourself, no-one is going to come on this forum and post that their bus is on time, so given the amount of complaints on here (and previously on the Sullivans thread for that matter), does that not show you that generally other operators services are on time and operated well? No-one is claiming other operators don't have poorly performing routes either - for example, GALs atrocious operation on the 265 is one of the worst things I've ever seen. The difference is that most of their routes are not poorly performing, compared to RATP where so many routes are operated badly. Why are they improving on the charts then ? Do you not believe them ? People here are still reporting bad experiences from this operator, regardless of the charts says otherwise. It's still got miles to climb if it ever reaches the standards of Metroline, Go Ahead or Stagecoach. So far it seems to only copy and paste control tactics by Arriva
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Post by southlondon413 on Sept 26, 2024 13:24:57 GMT
Why are they improving on the charts then ? Do you not believe them ? People here are still reporting bad experiences from this operator, regardless of the charts says otherwise. It's still got miles to climb if it ever reaches the standards of Metroline, Go Ahead or Stagecoach. So far it seems to only copy and paste control tactics by Arriva If I reported every single bad experience I’ve had with various operators I’d never stop. This whole situation is like when there is a plane crash and for weeks after all you read in the papers are reports of every minor plane incident that follows. It’s just jumping on a bandwagon because it’s popular right now. The fact is everyone, including myself, only sees the small bubble in front of them. None of us have any clue what is happening a mile down or a mile back, we only see a snapshot in front of of our noses.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 26, 2024 13:28:21 GMT
Why are they improving on the charts then ? Do you not believe them ? People here are still reporting bad experiences from this operator, regardless of the charts says otherwise. It's still got miles to climb if it ever reaches the standards of Metroline, Go Ahead or Stagecoach. So far it seems to only copy and paste control tactics by Arriva What do you mean by copy & paste control tactics by Arriva? I live in an area where Arriva have operated in for over 25 years and on the whole, they've been fine just like Go-Ahead have been where I live and just like the different iterations of Transport UK have been, bar one or two routes. The only other operator to have directly operated where I live was Stagecoach and they were ok but had a tendency to continually chuck short single deckers onto the P4, a route they should really only be on in an emergency - service wise, they were ok given the P4 is not an easy route to run because of the South Circular though I've noticed far less turns under Go-Ahead ironically.
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Post by VMH2537 on Sept 26, 2024 13:41:23 GMT
People here are still reporting bad experiences from this operator, regardless of the charts says otherwise. It's still got miles to climb if it ever reaches the standards of Metroline, Go Ahead or Stagecoach. So far it seems to only copy and paste control tactics by Arriva What do you mean by copy & paste control tactics by Arriva? I live in an area where Arriva have operated in for over 25 years and on the whole, they've been fine just like Go-Ahead have been where I live and just like the different iterations of Transport UK have been, bar one or two routes. The only other operator to have directly operated where I live was Stagecoach and they were ok but had a tendency to continually chuck short single deckers onto the P4, a route they should really only be on in an emergency - service wise, they were ok given the P4 is not an easy route to run because of the South Circular though I've noticed far less turns under Go-Ahead ironically. Considering Arriva tends to aboundon sections in light of disruption or if an area sneezes, it's fair to assume how they reassemble such case. The 34 being curtailed at Crooked Billet if any part of the route sneezes or even at AD.
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