Invent two new TfL bus routes

[Deleted]

Apr 28, 2013 20:33:52 GMT Connor said:

Reroute the 319 to the current G1 stand at Streatham, Green Lane.

That would require a lot of dead running, it would lose the connection from central Streatham to its nearest tube station at Tooting Bec, and lose the connection from central Streatham and Streatham Hill to Clapham Junction. That tube link is busy during rush hours and the 249 already serves the High Road south of St Leonard's.

A crazy idea I would like though would be for the 59 to be extended to Streatham Station via Leigham Court Road, Valley Road and Streatham Common North, and the 137 to St Leonard's and the vacant 133 stand.

Running the 59 that way would create some new links, including giving the east of Streatham a direct route into Brixton and along with southern Streatham a bus to Waterloo, Euston Kings Cross.

Valley Road has been highlighted by Lambeth Council as being one of the furthest points from a bus route in the borough, and i know it can take double deckers as London General seem to use it when they have to be diverted away from the High Road. I even once saw a bendy bus go along there when the High Road was closed.

Telford Avenue is quite a useless location for most of Streatham as from even the central area you have to take a short-ish bus journey and change. This would not matter if you could transfer, but instead it doubles the cost. Streatham Station has the same problem for buses coming from the south.

Apr 28, 2013 21:32:50 GMT @mredd said:

You say the 109 needs a route to help it out, there's already the 109 and 250 running over very similar routings between Brixton and Croydon aside the 109 around Norbury. There's also the 60 running from Thornton Heath to Streatham as well, does that corridor really need a *fourth* route?

To be fair, it is the only route on London Road between Norbury and Thornton Heath Pond, which is not an insignificant stretch.

[vjaska]

Apr 28, 2013 21:32:50 GMT @mredd said:

Apr 28, 2013 20:33:52 GMT Connor said:

Thought I'd throw a bunch of wild ideas into the open.

• Extend the 137 to Streatham (Station, Hub, South, Village... )
  
• Extend the 60 to Streatham Hill (Station or Telford Avenue)
  
• Extend the 255 to Balham via the current 315 (allowing the 315 to be withdrawn)
  
• Reroute the G1 to West Norwood via the current 315 (allowing the 315 to be withdrawn)
  
• Reroute the 319 to the current G1 stand at Streatham, Green Lane.
  
• Extend the 64 to Streatham (Station, Hub, South, Village... ) via the 109, which desperately needs a route to help it out.
  
• Extend the 152 to Thornton Heath Pond, at least.
  
• Extend the 255 to West Croydon
  
• Extend the 466 to Caterham Station
  
• Extend the 270 to current 198 stand at Thornton Heath High Street
  
• Extend the 198 to Norwood Junction Station
  
• Extend the 415 to Purley (via West Norwood, Streatham Common, Thornton Heath Pond, then via the 289 to Purley (allowing the current 289 to be withdrawn); also rerouted to Vauxhall at the north end.
  
• New express route X28, from Thornton Heath Pond to Dartford (stopping between the 289's current routing to Elmers End, then Bromley, Chistlehurst Road/Chistlehurst, Sidcup, Coldblow, Dartford Heath) (allowing the current 289 to be withdrawn)
  

Throwing a few things out there:

A number of problems with the G1 extension:
*It wouldn't cover the Balham end of the 315
*It would possibly mean the G1 no longer served Streatham Station.
*It would also cut off the southern parts of Streatham High Road from St George's Hospital and the rest of the G1 routing.
*The G1 already has a 90-minute running time on the longest journeys, would such an extension not seriously dent reliability?
*The G1 (in theory) can only reasonably accommodate small buses - would the extra traffic not overwhelm it?

As for the 466 extension, Caterham - Croydon is already covered by the 407. As an area outside London it's not particularly a TFL responsibility anyway.

You say the 109 needs a route to help it out, there's already the 109 and 250 running over very similar routings between Brixton and Croydon aside the 109 around Norbury. There's also the 60 running from Thornton Heath to Streatham as well, does that corridor really need a *fourth* route?

The 415 proposal sounds like an even longer version of the 468, a route that already stretches from Zone 1/2 border to Zone 5. Vauxhall to Purley via the 156, 415, 468, 289 sounds like it would be long enough to rival a night route.

How would the 198 go from Norwood Junction to Thornton Heath? Is the 130 not set to cover this link anyway...

To be fair to him 'mredd', it was myself who originally suggested the 64 proposal as I posted it near the top of the page. The 109 between Thornton Heath Pond & Norbury has been overcrowded for many years & an extension of the 64 to Streatham Hub/Village/Station would help it out as well as connect Addington Village & New Addington to Norbury & Streatham.

[vjaska]

Apr 28, 2013 20:33:52 GMT Connor said:

Thought I'd throw a bunch of wild ideas into the open.

• Extend the 137 to Streatham (Station, Hub, South, Village... )
  
• Extend the 60 to Streatham Hill (Station or Telford Avenue)
  
• Extend the 255 to Balham via the current 315 (allowing the 315 to be withdrawn)
  
• Reroute the G1 to West Norwood via the current 315 (allowing the 315 to be withdrawn)
  
• Reroute the 319 to the current G1 stand at Streatham, Green Lane.
  
• Extend the 64 to Streatham (Station, Hub, South, Village... ) via the 109, which desperately needs a route to help it out.
  
• Extend the 152 to Thornton Heath Pond, at least.
  
• Extend the 255 to West Croydon
  
• Extend the 466 to Caterham Station
  
• Extend the 270 to current 198 stand at Thornton Heath High Street
  
• Extend the 198 to Norwood Junction Station
  
• Extend the 415 to Purley (via West Norwood, Streatham Common, Thornton Heath Pond, then via the 289 to Purley (allowing the current 289 to be withdrawn); also rerouted to Vauxhall at the north end.
  
• New express route X28, from Thornton Heath Pond to Dartford (stopping between the 289's current routing to Elmers End, then Bromley, Chistlehurst Road/Chistlehurst, Sidcup, Coldblow, Dartford Heath) (allowing the current 289 to be withdrawn)
  

Some of these are actually not as wild as you might think

The 137 is a good proposal though it could screw up the service further north. The same goes for your 60 proposal.

I disagree with switching the 255 & 315 routes and strongly disagree with removing the 315 altogether - since it's introduction, it's become a vital route and provides an important small east to went link across Streatham.

I disagree about putting extensions on the G1 - if anything, I'd cut it back to Streatham and possibly cut it between Clapham Junction & Springfield with an extension of the 219 though admittingly, I've no knowledge that the sides road off Latchmere Road can accomodate longer buses.

I disagree with re-routeing the 319 to the G1 stand for the reasons 'someone' mentioned.

I agree with the 64 proposal only because I proposed it ;D ;D

I agree with the 152 proposal, it would open up new links between Thornton Heath Pond & everything west of Pollards Hill. I'd probably extend it further to Thornton Heath Station but Thornton Heath Pond is a good alternative.

I disagree with extending the 255 south of Pollards Hill full stop - the 60 already covers that section whilst London Road between Thornton Heath Pond & West Croydon has enough buses.

The 466 proposal is a decent idea, removes it away from it's current terminus which is kind of in the middle of nowhere and would allow Croydon bound passengers two choices. The only issue I could see would be stand space.

I disagree with the 198 proposal as the 130 is expected to fufill the same role.

As for the 415, lets just get rid of it completely as it's pointless ;D. Extend the 432 to Elephant & Castle from Brixton & extend it from Anerley to Elmers End Interchange .

Some good ideas in there, keep throwing them out .

[Deleted]

Apr 28, 2013 20:33:52 GMT Connor said:

Thought I'd throw a bunch of wild ideas into the open.

• Extend the 137 to Streatham (Station, Hub, South, Village... )
  
• Extend the 60 to Streatham Hill (Station or Telford Avenue)
  
• Extend the 255 to Balham via the current 315 (allowing the 315 to be withdrawn)
  
• Reroute the G1 to West Norwood via the current 315 (allowing the 315 to be withdrawn)
  
• Reroute the 319 to the current G1 stand at Streatham, Green Lane.
  
• Extend the 64 to Streatham (Station, Hub, South, Village... ) via the 109, which desperately needs a route to help it out.
  
• Extend the 152 to Thornton Heath Pond, at least.
  
• Extend the 255 to West Croydon
  
• Extend the 466 to Caterham Station
  
• Extend the 270 to current 198 stand at Thornton Heath High Street
  
• Extend the 198 to Norwood Junction Station
  
• Extend the 415 to Purley (via West Norwood, Streatham Common, Thornton Heath Pond, then via the 289 to Purley (allowing the current 289 to be withdrawn); also rerouted to Vauxhall at the north end.
  
• New express route X28, from Thornton Heath Pond to Dartford (stopping between the 289's current routing to Elmers End, then Bromley, Chistlehurst Road/Chistlehurst, Sidcup, Coldblow, Dartford Heath) (allowing the current 289 to be withdrawn)
  

Wouldn't it be simpler to just increase the 109 to every 4 or 5mins rather than extend the 64 to Streatham?

Extending the 152 to Thornton Heath Pond or High Street or even Norwood Junction (instead of the 130) would be great.

An express service from Croydon to Dartford (via the old 726 route) and onto Bluewater and Ebbsfleet would be great.

As for the 289, it needs double deckers, and when Spring Lane bridge is sorted out reroute the 289 to Norwood Junction, withdraw the 312, and extend the 54 back to Croydon via the current 289/312 routes. The stand at Tesco could then be used for the 249 and 432, the 432 also extended to E&C and the pointless 415 route withdrawn.

[M1104]

I think the 152's extensions to Thornton Heath High Street would be adequate enough as there's plenty of new links the route would create anyhow. Going further into Norwood Junction would give it the same sort of problems experienced with the 196, particularly during rush hours, Sundays and Palace home games.

It's better to extend the 130 to Thornton Heath Pond where the route would at least overlap the 'extended' 152 for a number of stops.

[vjaska]

Apr 29, 2013 12:10:33 GMT M1104 said:

I think the 152's extensions to Thornton Heath High Street would be adequate enough as there's plenty of new links the route would create anyhow. Going further into Norwood Junction would give it the same sort of problems experienced with the 196, particularly during rush hours, Sundays and Palace home games.

It's better to extend the 130 to Thornton Heath Pond where the route would at least overlap the 'extended' 152 for a number of stops.

Couldn't agree more though I'd only sanction the extension if the 130 returned to Spring Lane. I'd let the 152 use Brigstock Road along with the 198 & 250 which helps the overcrowded 250 out, whilst the 130 can use back roads to reach Thornton Heath Pond.

I'd also possibly suggest extending the 198 to Crystal Palace via Whitehorse Lane, Ladbrook Road & Ross Road (towards Crystal Palace), Grange Road, Beulah Hill, Church Road, then Westow Street & Westow Hill (towards Crystal Palace). This would relieve pressure off the overcrowded 450 leaving the route to provide local links instead.

[Connor]

Apr 29, 2013 12:37:15 GMT vjaska said:

I'd let the 152 use Brigstock Road along with the 198 & 250 which helps the overcrowded 250 out.

As a regular user of the 250, I can assure you the 250 is not overcrowded (busy, yes). In fact, a PVR decrease is needed at most times.

Also, I don't understand which 'back roads' the 130 would need to take to reach the Pond?

[Connor]

Withdraw the 289 by:
Creating the new route 392, from Thornton Heath Pond to Sidcup Station.
Via:

• West Croydon
  
• Addiscombe & Woodside
  
• Elmers End Green
  
• Eden Park Road/ Stone Park Road
  
• Park Langley
  
• Bromley South
  
• Chistlehurst
  
• QM Hospital
  
• Sidcup High Street
  

Every 15 minutes, operated via Arriva from TC with Pulsars.



Extending the 255 from Pollards Hill to Purley Station. Double decked.

[vjaska]

Apr 29, 2013 20:12:48 GMT Connor said:

Apr 29, 2013 12:37:15 GMT vjaska said:

I'd let the 152 use Brigstock Road along with the 198 & 250 which helps the overcrowded 250 out.

As a regular user of the 250, I can assure you the 250 is not overcrowded (busy, yes). In fact, a PVR decrease is needed at most times.

Also, I don't understand which 'back roads' the 130 would need to take to reach the Pond?

Overcrowding may have been a tad too strong a word to use but I've been a regular user of the 250 for many years and it does get very busy enough to leave people behind. Both the 109 & 250 cope fine between Brixton & Streatham as there is the 118, 133, 159 & 333 to help with the strain - after Streatham, the 109 gets very packed and along Green Lane, the 250 gets packed with the worst point at Thornton Heath Station. A PVR decrease is certainly not needed!

As for the 130, there would be no point running it along Brigstock Road if it had the 152 join the 198 & 250. It could run via Brook Road, Quadrant Road, Richmond Road, Langdale Road & London Road.

[vjaska]

I disagree with withdrawing the 289 as, along with the 410, it provides an east to west link across Croydon. People in Purley & along Purley Way would have to get two buses to get to Elmers End, plus Mayday Hospital has no link to Purley Way either. Personally, I'd just convert the 289 to deckers and that's it.

[COBO]

Extend the 460 to Southall Great Western Retail Park via Dudden Hill Lane, Neasden Lane North, Blackbird Hill, Forty Lane, Forty Avenue, East Lane, North Wembley Station, Court Parade, Watford Road, Sudbury Court Drive, Greenford Road, Uxbridge Road and Windmill Lane.
To link Greenford with Wembley Park, Neasden, Willesden, Cricklewood, Golders Green and North Finchley. To provide Windmill Lane with a bus route.

[Connor]

New route 335, White City (Westfield)-West Croydon

Via:

• Shepherds Bush Station
  
• Shepherds Bush Road
  
• Hammersmith Bus Station
  
• A4/ Talgarth Road
  
• West Kensington Station
  
• North End Road
  
• Fulham Broadway
  
• Wandsworth Bridge/ Wandsworth Bridge Road
  
• A214/ Trinity Road (via Wandsworth Common)
  
• Tooting Bec Station
  
• Tooting Bec Road
  
• Streatham Station/ St Leonards Church
  
• London Road (via Norbury and Thornton Heath Pond)
  
• West Croydon
  

Every 20 minutes, operated via Arriva from TC with Pulsars.

[vjaska]

May 17, 2013 20:38:55 GMT Connor said:

New route 335, White City (Westfield)-West Croydon

Via:

• Shepherds Bush Station
  
• Shepherds Bush Road
  
• Hammersmith Bus Station
  
• A4/ Talgarth Road
  
• West Kensington Station
  
• North End Road
  
• Fulham Broadway
  
• Wandsworth Bridge/ Wandsworth Bridge Road
  
• A214/ Trinity Road (via Wandsworth Common)
  
• Tooting Bec Station
  
• Tooting Bec Road
  
• Streatham Station/ St Leonards Church
  
• London Road (via Norbury and Thornton Heath Pond)
  
• West Croydon
  

Every 20 minutes, operated via Arriva from TC with Pulsars.

Nice idea but hits far too many traffic hotspots for my liking .

[Connor]

New route 278, Croydon Town Centre - North Greenwich

Via:

• Croydon Town Centre
  
• West Croydon
  
• Thornton Heath Pond
  
• Thornton Heath High Street/ Whitehorse Lane
  
• Upper Norwood
  
• Church Road/ Westow Hill
  
• Crystal Palace Parade
  
• Upper Sydenham/ Sydenham Hill
  
• Horniman Museum/ Forest Hill
  
• Stanstead Road
  
• Catford Town Centre
  
• Brownhill Road/ St Mildreds Road/ Westhorne Avenue
  
• Kidbrooke Park Road/ 'Ferrier Estate'
  
• Kidbrooke Station
  
• A2/ A102
  
• Millennium Way
  
• North Greenwich Station
  

Every 30 minutes, operated via Abellio from BC with Trident/ALX400 and Gemini/BT7L.

[snoggle]

May 18, 2013 13:06:06 GMT Connor said:

New route 278, Croydon Town Centre - North Greenwich

Via:

• Croydon Town Centre
  
• West Croydon
  
• Thornton Heath Pond
  
• Thornton Heath High Street/ Whitehorse Lane
  
• Upper Norwood
  
• Church Road/ Westow Hill
  
• Crystal Palace Parade
  
• Upper Sydenham/ Sydenham Hill
  
• Horniman Museum/ Forest Hill
  
• Stanstead Road
  
• Catford Town Centre
  
• Brownhill Road/ St Mildreds Road/ Westhorne Avenue
  
• Kidbrooke Park Road/ 'Ferrier Estate'
  
• Kidbrooke Station
  
• A2/ A102
  
• Millennium Way
  
• North Greenwich Station
  

Every 30 minutes, operated via Abellio from BC with Trident/ALX400 and Gemini/BT7L.

Interesting idea. The only glitch is that the buses would never be able to leave North Greenwich because there would be a never ending queue of people trying to get on to a half hourly service. ;D Even with a 10 minute headway the 132 couldn't cope with single decks so a half hourly double deck never would at NOG. I'd expect your route would be grossly overloaded within 2 months of introduction and would need improving to a x10 headway. The question then arises if such a level of service would be justified over the remainder of the route.

I'm almost left wondering if the way to serve Kidbrooke Estate from NOG is to extend the 129 to give a Greenwich - NOG - Kidbrooke service. The only problem might be the double run on the North Greenwich peninsula. I know extending the B16 has been suggested lots of times but that would be overloaded with people from further out from Kidbrooke once the extension became established.