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Post by vjaska on Jun 26, 2013 0:46:24 GMT
Here are my ideas for changes in the Streatham area. Cut the 57 back to Streatham Hill Station. Extend the 137 to Streatham Station. Then swap the 60 and 319 terminus; 60 to Streatham Hill, Telford Avenue; 319 to Streatham Station. Withdraw the 255 and replace with an exetended route (64, 152, G1?). Introduce my route 301 from East Croydon to Wandsworth, Armoury Way. Swap the 219 and 355 routing south of Tooting Broadway, hence direct bus links between Brixton/Balham and Wimbledon (355) and Clapham Junction to Mitcham with the 219 (reroute further at Figgs Marsh via Eastfields to Pollards Hill). Convert both routes to LFDDs and move the WS class to the 201. I like both ideas, though extend the 219 further to Thornton Heath Pond at least. Really don't like Pollards Hill as a terminus for any route (except for the 463). Extending the 137 adds nearly a mile onto the route which already battles traffic in Central London. Diverting the 319 to Streatham Hub breaks the important Tooting Bec to Streatham Hill link, IMO, the 319 should remain as it is. Extending the 60 to Brixton garage could make the route unreliable due to the length of the route plus if Brixton Hill doesn't need another route running along it, then surely the same applies to the northern end of Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill. The G1 is particularly lengthy in its current form - if anything, I'd cut it back from Streatham High Road (Green Lane) to Streatham Hub but let it stand on Streatham High Road. I'd also move the P13 out of the Hub to the street outside so if room was needed for my 64 proposal, then there would no stand issues. I'd also would cut the G1 at the other end of the route between Shaftsbury Estate & Clapham Junction but can't think of a suitable replacement route. I feel the 152 is better for extending to Thornton Heath Station to create a east to west link - something that South London has a lack off. The 219 could then stand at Pollards Hill. |
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Post by Connor on Jun 26, 2013 1:41:27 GMT
Here are my ideas for changes in the Streatham area. Cut the 57 back to Streatham Hill Station. Extend the 137 to Streatham Station. Then swap the 60 and 319 terminus; 60 to Streatham Hill, Telford Avenue; 319 to Streatham Station. Withdraw the 255 and replace with an exetended route (64, 152, G1?). Introduce my route 301 from East Croydon to Wandsworth, Armoury Way. I like both ideas, though extend the 219 further to Thornton Heath Pond at least. Really don't like Pollards Hill as a terminus for any route (except for the 463). Extending the 137 adds nearly a mile onto the route which already battles traffic in Central London. Diverting the 319 to Streatham Hub breaks the important Tooting Bec to Streatham Hill link, IMO, the 319 should remain as it is. Extending the 60 to Brixton garage could make the route unreliable due to the length of the route plus if Brixton Hill doesn't need another route running along it, then surely the same applies to the northern end of Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill. The G1 is particularly lengthy in its current form - if anything, I'd cut it back from Streatham High Road (Green Lane) to Streatham Hub but let it stand on Streatham High Road. I'd also move the P13 out of the Hub to the street outside so if room was needed for my 64 proposal, then there would no stand issues. I'd also would cut the G1 at the other end of the route between Shaftsbury Estate & Clapham Junction but can't think of a suitable replacement route. I feel the 152 is better for extending to Thornton Heath Station to create a east to west link - something that South London has a lack off. The 219 could then stand at Pollards Hill. So I don't think you understand my logic. Get rid of routes along Streatham High Road which are underused (57, 255 & 319) and replace them with routes that can do with extensions. (60 & 137) You can't really say that it would be wrong to extend the 137 down to Streatham Station because it 'battles traffic in Central London', when you have the 159, a longer route (137 is 7.7 miles long, the 159 around 10 miles long) which passes even more traffic hot spots than the 137. If you were a regular passenger on the 137, then you'd know how tedious it is having to change bus at Christchurch Road simply to go a few stops down the High Street to get Station, shops or the 50/255 bus stop. You can keep repeating how diverting the 319 to Streatham would break the 'important' link to Streatham Hill, the facts are that it isn't that important if most, if not all passengers get off at Streatham, St Leonards Church. After that stop, it pretty much runs back empty to the garage. I see the 319 daily, and I can honestly say say I've never seen more than 7/8 people on board along the Streatham Hill section. Diverting it southwards would make sense as most people use the 319 as a north-south link, this would allow for easy interchange to buses to Croydon and other areas. Another idea could be to extend the 131 to Streatham Hill via Tooting Bec then via the current 319 route, I'm not really sure whether there would be demand for this extension to go ahead though. I don't get why you would object to extending the 60 to a more useful terminus simply because people aren't keen on having another route running along your area (Brixton Hill)?  |
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Post by Steve80 on Jun 26, 2013 2:42:46 GMT
If I remember, the 319 was cut back to st leonards but due to complaints they re-extended it back to streatham hill. The 60 goes through busy areas such as croydon and purley which has major traffic problems around there. The route was briefly extended to st leonards but I believe the route suffered reliability issues so it was put back to streatham garage.
I think the only route that needs looking at is the 255. The 137 would be good if it was extended to streatham station but I can understand if it doesn't as it does serves areas not served by many other routes, especially if you compare it to the 159 which has many routes supplemented by it
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Post by M1104 on Jun 26, 2013 6:34:07 GMT
Here are my ideas for changes in the Streatham area. Cut the 57 back to Streatham Hill Station. Extend the 137 to Streatham Station. Then swap the 60 and 319 terminus; 60 to Streatham Hill, Telford Avenue; 319 to Streatham Station. Withdraw the 255 and replace with an exetended route (64, 152, G1?). Introduce my route 301 from East Croydon to Wandsworth, Armoury Way. Swap the 219 and 355 routing south of Tooting Broadway, hence direct bus links between Brixton/Balham and Wimbledon (355) and Clapham Junction to Mitcham with the 219 (reroute further at Figgs Marsh via Eastfields to Pollards Hill). Convert both routes to LFDDs and move the WS class to the 201. I like both ideas, though extend the 219 further to Thornton Heath Pond at least. Really don't like Pollards Hill as a terminus for any route (except for the 463). The 152 and 255, having bigger buses than the 463, still gets packed by the time it has gone around the back streets and left the heavily residentual Pollards Hill area.....particularly at this time of the day when all the kids are going to school. |
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Post by sw11simon on Jun 26, 2013 8:17:39 GMT
Well, if I was spending TFL's money extending route 137 along Streatham High Road would be extremely low on my list- this corridor is served by numerous routes and changing buses is generally completed in seconds at Brixton Garage or Atkins Road. Changing the 319 would be pretty inefficient cost wise as drivers would still need to get to St Leonard's to change over, or lots of light running buses to the garage (on the current route after dumping everybody at St Leonard's). If the 255 is not ever getting its Balham extension then it could do with replacing, although I don't think it will create significant savings as anything appropriate would need an additional extension unless the 60 was cut back to Thornton Heath and the 64 extended to Streatham Hill. If you swapped the 219/355 you would remove some current direct links - Balham to Mitcham, Trinity Road to Wimbledon etc. Pretty unnecessary to change people's patterns, it will probably inconvenience as many people as it benefits. I do see the 57 cut back to St Leonard's as a pretty pain free money saving though but I don't think that saving needs to be re-spent in the area.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 26, 2013 9:55:21 GMT
Extending the 137 adds nearly a mile onto the route which already battles traffic in Central London. Diverting the 319 to Streatham Hub breaks the important Tooting Bec to Streatham Hill link, IMO, the 319 should remain as it is. Extending the 60 to Brixton garage could make the route unreliable due to the length of the route plus if Brixton Hill doesn't need another route running along it, then surely the same applies to the northern end of Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill. The G1 is particularly lengthy in its current form - if anything, I'd cut it back from Streatham High Road (Green Lane) to Streatham Hub but let it stand on Streatham High Road. I'd also move the P13 out of the Hub to the street outside so if room was needed for my 64 proposal, then there would no stand issues. I'd also would cut the G1 at the other end of the route between Shaftsbury Estate & Clapham Junction but can't think of a suitable replacement route. I feel the 152 is better for extending to Thornton Heath Station to create a east to west link - something that South London has a lack off. The 219 could then stand at Pollards Hill. So I don't think you understand my logic. Get rid of routes along Streatham High Road which are underused (57, 255 & 319) and replace them with routes that can do with extensions. (60 & 137) You can't really say that it would be wrong to extend the 137 down to Streatham Station because it 'battles traffic in Central London', when you have the 159, a longer route (137 is 7.7 miles long, the 159 around 10 miles long) which passes even more traffic hot spots than the 137. If you were a regular passenger on the 137, then you'd know how tedious it is having to change bus at Christchurch Road simply to go a few stops down the High Street to get Station, shops or the 50/255 bus stop. You can keep repeating how diverting the 319 to Streatham would break the 'important' link to Streatham Hill, the facts are that it isn't that important if most, if not all passengers get off at Streatham, St Leonards Church. After that stop, it pretty much runs back empty to the garage. I see the 319 daily, and I can honestly say say I've never seen more than 7/8 people on board along the Streatham Hill section. Diverting it southwards would make sense as most people use the 319 as a north-south link, this would allow for easy interchange to buses to Croydon and other areas. Another idea could be to extend the 131 to Streatham Hill via Tooting Bec then via the current 319 route, I'm not really sure whether there would be demand for this extension to go ahead though. I don't get why you would object to extending the 60 to a more useful terminus simply because people aren't keen on having another route running along your area (Brixton Hill)? As quite rightly pointed out by others, the 137 has less help from other routes compared to the 159. I've used the 137 many times so I know how it works. It's not just me who keeps repeating that the 319 is an important link. Also, most passengers do not get off at St. Leonard's Church, they get off at Becmead Avenue because that's the main shopping area. I also don't understand how you've come to the conclusion that the 319 passengers travel south from Streatham - the majority would probably not travel elsewhere once they reach Streatham. Extending the 131 via Tooting Bec simply means the 131 hits traffic congestion along Upper Tooting Road As for the 60, you clearly didn't my post properly. What I said is that if adding to the 8 routes along Brixton Hill is too many, then surely adding the 60 to the 10+ routes along the northern end of Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill is too many. The northern end of Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill has enough routes without adding more and Streatham Vale is served by the 118 beyond Streatham Hub. |
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Post by Connor on Jun 26, 2013 12:11:12 GMT
As quite rightly pointed out by others, the 137 has less help from other routes compared to the 159. I've used the 137 many times so I know how it works. It's not just me who keeps repeating that the 319 is an important link. Also, most passengers do not get off at St. Leonard's Church, they get off at Becmead Avenue because that's the main shopping area. I also don't understand how you've come to the conclusion that the 319 passengers travel south from Streatham - the majority would probably not travel elsewhere once they reach Streatham. Extending the 131 via Tooting Bec simply means the 131 hits traffic congestion along Upper Tooting Road As for the 60, you clearly didn't my post properly. What I said is that if adding to the 8 routes along Brixton Hill is too many, then surely adding the 60 to the 10+ routes along the northern end of Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill is too many. The northern end of Streatham High Road & Streatham Hill has enough routes without adding more and Streatham Vale is served by the 118 beyond Streatham Hub. "I've used the 137 many times so I know how it works". Well Done  You have clearly not read my post. I proposed extending the 60 & 137 along the High Road, whilst shortening the 57, cutting back the 319 and withdrawing the 255 at the same time. So you wouldn't actually add any additional routes to the current 10 running via the High Road to Streatham Hill. Extending the 60 would aid the 109 as it serves much of the (overcrowded) London Road and it would pretty much replace the entire 255. I always see jam packed 255s in the morning peaks (other than at those hours and weekends, its a dead route), I'm guessing this is because currently, it is the only route along Pollards Hill that goes beyond Streatham, not because it is the only route along Stanford Road. So withdrawing it shouldn't cause too many problems (obviously another route would have to be be extended along Stanford Road to not leave that road with out buses; the 64?) It would make the 60 long, from Croydon upwards it gets slowed down by traffic, the other half of the route is relatively traffic-free, which sort of justifies the extension, in my mind at least. I don't know where you get the idea that most 319 passengers get off at Becmead Avenue, that's certainly not the case. Passengers get off at St Leonards Church, then (from my observations) go to the other bus stop at SLC for buses to Croydon/Norwood, or they walk to the High Street shops from there. Most people do that because the traffic at Tooting Bec Gardens/Streatham High Road junction is bad at the best of times (the traffic lights for vehicles at the junction for routes 249, 315, 319 & G1 towards are green for a very short space of time). I may start taking photos on board the 319 on this section at various times of the day just to prove my point!  All this is starting to get tedious. For example, if the Tooting Bec to Streatham Hill section is important, extending the 131 to replace this part of the 319 would be the best idea. No point having the 319 running over this part, considering the pitiful passenger numbers. Yes, there would be traffic along Upper Tooting Road, but that's life. You can't keep using the same "it would break vital/important/established (when it would equally create new useful links)" or "it would make the route unreliable" or "it would hit congestion" or "it would make the route long" argument to protest against certain suggestions, then fail to acknowledge it with your own suggestions! Extend the 57 to Brixton?! Why don't we extend the 50 to Zimbabwe!   Understand I'm not trying to be confrontational or stubborn, it's just my opinion. |
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Post by Connor on Jun 26, 2013 12:29:05 GMT
Withdraw the 307 between Brimsdown and Enfield Town, extend it to Edgware. To Sterling Corner via then 107, then to Edgware via the 292; makes getting from Barnet to Edgware much faster. Extend the 329 to Brimsdown to replace the withdrawn section of the 307.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 17:01:31 GMT
Well, if I was spending TFL's money extending route 137 along Streatham High Road would be extremely low on my list- this corridor is served by numerous routes and changing buses is generally completed in seconds at Brixton Garage or Atkins Road. Changing may be easy, but when you have to pay twice to do so then a wait of seconds is scant consolation. Connor is correct that it is a very annoying route to use because of having to change as central Streatham to Telford Avenue is too short to justify an extra £1.40 but too long to consider reasonable to have to walk. Passengers get off at St Leonards Church, then (from my observations) go to the other bus stop at SLC for buses to Croydon/Norwood, or they walk to the High Street shops from there. Most people do that because the traffic at Tooting Bec Gardens/Streatham High Road junction is bad at the best of times (the traffic lights for vehicles at the junction for routes 249, 315, 319 & G1 towards are green for a very short space of time). In that case there is no benefit of redirecting the 319 to Streatham Station as it would only serve two extra stops. And if you are claiming that it is better for people to get off and walk from St Leonard's then the same will be true for those who want the High Road stop for buses toward Norbury, and for the station and Hub facilities. Streatham Station is almost exactly as far from the St Leonard's stop as the Becmead Avenue one. No matter how small you think the demand is from further up the High Road, it will still outweigh anything that would be gained by changing it. The 249 already serves Tooting Bec to Streatham Station and has more than enough capacity to satisfy that demand that it does not need other links being destroyed to help it out. And as sw11simon points out, buses will still have to go back and forwards to Telford Avenue to the garage which will add cost, increase congestion on the High Road, and taunt passengers who will have their service taken away only to see buses still running but not taking passengers. The 319 and 57 are both fine as they are. ozzjacefinest's post convinced me that there is a good reason beyond the stand to keep running the 57 to Atkins Road. With all the new developments on Streatham Place it is a good idea to have a bus from there to the centre of Streatham for the shops and amenities, and it is the only bus to do so as the 417 turns off at Streatham Hill down Leigham Court Road. Although ideally I would prefer the 137 to be extended further south, which would then allow the 57 to be cut back to Streatham Hill, St Leonard's, or the Hub. On the 255 issue, I wish TfL would just temporarily run it as planned to Cavendish Road then instead of turning into Old Devonshire Road, which is the issue blocking the extension, just keeping running it north to Clapham South then down Balham Hill. When and if Wandsworth Council are satisfied it could then use a more direct link. But doing this would at least give the residents of the Weir Estate and surrounding area the bus link they have been asking for. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 17:12:50 GMT
Due to the overwhelming demand for more buses between Tooting Bec and Streatham Station
Streatham Station, Streatham St Leonard's, Tooting Bec Road, Tooting Bec Station, Trinity Road, Burntwood Lane, Garratt Lane, Wandsworth Gyratory, Wandsworth Bridge Road, News King's Road, Parsons Green Lane, Fulham Road, Fulham Broadway.
Lots of new links, and a bus I would personally find useful. Although I would have it start at St Leonard's.
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Post by sw11simon on Jun 27, 2013 10:01:41 GMT
Due to the overwhelming demand for more buses between Tooting Bec and Streatham Station Streatham Station, Streatham St Leonard's, Tooting Bec Road, Tooting Bec Station, Trinity Road, Burntwood Lane, Garratt Lane, Wandsworth Gyratory, Wandsworth Bridge Road, News King's Road, Parsons Green Lane, Fulham Road, Fulham Broadway. Lots of new links, and a bus I would personally find useful. Although I would have it start at St Leonard's. Something very similar to this was a proposal from Wandsworth Council a few years ago and they were lobbying for a link from Trinity Road to Fulham. Having been away from such meetings for a few years I'm not sure if it is still live. Take your point on 57 serving Clapham Park... I had forgotten that bit and it does pick up quite a few passengers there, as does the 45 going the other way. Still wouldn't extend the 137 as a sole action though. The only way this could be justified in my mind would be to cut back the 159 to Streatham Hill, which is extremely duplicated Brixton to Streatham - this would actually create more links, and would allow the 57 to be cut back to St Leonard's (as the 137 would serve the purpose from Clapham Park) so could lead to some savings. |
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Post by moz on Jun 27, 2013 10:17:27 GMT
Re: all the above^, if you want something to terminate at Streatham hub, you're going to have to take something out - it's full! A boost to the 109 is needed in peaks as it gets hit both ways as opposed to just one way. Something else that may need a boost is Crown Point. Apparently the old SG Smith VW showroom is being demolished and replaced with a branch of Lidl so traffic is going to become mental and bus loadings will too. Might be a cue for the 68 or 315 to be extended up the hill to Crown Point.
Moz
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Post by M1104 on Jun 27, 2013 11:22:56 GMT
Re: all the above^, if you want something to terminate at Streatham hub, you're going to have to take something out - it's full! A boost to the 109 is needed in peaks as it gets hit both ways as opposed to just one way. Moz Maybe Arriva/TfL could arrange to have one of their overbused west end routes reduce their pvr so that the 109's can be increased. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 27, 2013 12:02:06 GMT
Re: all the above^, if you want something to terminate at Streatham hub, you're going to have to take something out - it's full! A boost to the 109 is needed in peaks as it gets hit both ways as opposed to just one way. Something else that may need a boost is Crown Point. Apparently the old SG Smith VW showroom is being demolished and replaced with a branch of Lidl so traffic is going to become mental and bus loadings will too. Might be a cue for the 68 or 315 to be extended up the hill to Crown Point. Moz One of my posts in the middle of the page mentions taking out the P13 so my 64 extension can happen. The P13 can then terminate on the street outside. I also cut the G1 back from its Green Lane stand to stand with the P13 on the street outside the hub. |
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Post by Connor on Jun 27, 2013 13:25:50 GMT
New route 458, West Croydon, Hogarth Crescent to Elephant & Castle Via: West Croydon Station Thornton Heath Pond/ Croydon University Hospital Norbury Station Norbury Hill Norwood, Crown Point West Norwood Tulse Hill Station Brixton Oval Kennington Elephant & Castle Every 10 minutes, operated by GAL with WVLs. Withdraw route 415 and reduce the frequency on route 468.  New route X58, West Croydon, Hogarth Crescent to Piccadilly Circus Via: West Croydon Station Thornton Heath Pond/ Croydon University Hospital Norbury Station Streatham, St Leonard's Church THEN EXPRESS VIA BRIXTON & VAUXHALL to VictoriaVictoria Station Hyde Park Corner Green Park Piccadilly Circus (AM journey only) Haymarket and Pall Mall (PM journey only)  Every 15 minutes, operated by GAL with WVLs. Limited stop route, run similarly to the X68. |
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