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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Sept 2, 2024 6:40:06 GMT
Furthermore, given that route H32, previously 232, has been around longer than route 482, I feel that if anything route H32 is more established as useful than route 482 in that area at least, even if not the Heathrow area. Yes but look how easily replaceable the H32 is now that the 482 is here. I understand pre-2008, the H32 was the sole route from Covent Way to Hounslow West, however now that the 482 is here, most journeys can be done using that and a change at Hounslow West or a much more direct 120. Sure it is the more busier route via Covent Way to Hounslow however it doesn't really connected areas that aren't already connected with other routes. Maybe with the 427 essentially being cut in half now, that could replace it entirely and allow for areas in Heston to be connected to places north of Southall. That just strikes me as fusing routes together for the sake of it. I think TfL have already responded to a reduction in demand for H32 with it's recent frequency decrease. As YX18KVJ (DLE30221) suggested, all that really should be done is a 1bph increase to 482 if it needs it. It would definitely be useful in the Heathrow area as 490 can't be decked. |
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Post by PGAT on Sept 15, 2024 18:32:43 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 15, 2024 18:51:39 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is. I thought extend it to Belmont Station via the backstreets section of the S1 (up it to every 20 mins with a sunday service but doesnt necessarily need a late evening service) and run the S1 direct along Brighton Road to Banstead without the need to extend the 164. |
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Post by bluepuffy on Sept 15, 2024 19:10:24 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is. I thought extend it to Belmont Station via the backstreets section of the S1 (up it to every 20 mins with a sunday service but doesnt necessarily need a late evening service) and run the S1 direct along Brighton Road to Banstead without the need to extend the 164. I'd be in support of a more direct link between Sutton and Banstead, usually I end up swapping onto the 80 and even if it's about 8 minutes after, we still end up beating the S1 by a minute or two. The S1 being the most direct of the S buses makes sense considering it's the most frequent of the 4. |
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Post by abellion on Sept 15, 2024 19:22:24 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is. I don't think the 6 min walk stat means anything, people still use the 470 regardless as it gets a lot of people to Morden and Sutton from their doorsteps directly and can carry pretty decent loads as a result. Taking on the S1 route to Belmont and an increase to x20 sounds like a great idea, it is much deader in Colliers Wood and it would be nice if you could rely on it to actually turn up somewhat regularly. |
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Post by PGAT on Sept 15, 2024 19:29:46 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is. I don't think the 6 min walk stat means anything, people still use the 470 regardless as it gets a lot of people to Morden and Sutton from their doorsteps directly and can carry pretty decent loads as a result. Taking on the S1 route to Belmont and an increase to x20 sounds like a great idea, it is much deader in Colliers Wood and it would be nice if you could rely on it to actually turn up somewhat regularly. While it does enable door-to-door connections I bring up the figure because it emphasises that it's a weak case for the route's existence in its current form |
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 15, 2024 19:30:09 GMT
I thought extend it to Belmont Station via the backstreets section of the S1 (up it to every 20 mins with a sunday service but doesnt necessarily need a late evening service) and run the S1 direct along Brighton Road to Banstead without the need to extend the 164. I'd be in support of a more direct link between Sutton and Banstead, usually I end up swapping onto the 80 and even if it's about 8 minutes after, we still end up beating the S1 by a minute or two. The S1 being the most direct of the S buses makes sense considering it's the most frequent of the 4. Of all them the S1 had arguably (till now with the S2 to Epsom) has had the most major role with the section between Sutton and Belmont. In the late 90s the 420/440 had a more London role to play but since that went commercial the S1 has been the sole route for alot of people. |
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Post by bluepuffy on Sept 15, 2024 19:46:43 GMT
I'd be in support of a more direct link between Sutton and Banstead, usually I end up swapping onto the 80 and even if it's about 8 minutes after, we still end up beating the S1 by a minute or two. The S1 being the most direct of the S buses makes sense considering it's the most frequent of the 4. Of all them the S1 had arguably (till now with the S2 to Epsom) has had the most major role with the section between Sutton and Belmont. In the late 90s the 420/440 had a more London role to play but since that went commercial the S1 has been the sole route for alot of people. The S1 by far to me is the most established of the 4 S prefixed routes in general and here is why (this is all personal and from experience, not everyones experience is the same, I think these routes are all great and should not be curtailed or thought about long term extensions.) S2 - New, people are still getting used to it, but many just view it as they viewed the 470 to a point I don't think they care about the number at this point, it still gets them to Sutton, that's what arguably, most of them, if not all, want. S3 - The most infrequent of the 4, has some weird routings and gets through to places through backroads, doesn't really connect anywhere to anywhere other than the backroads as well, arguably Sutton Common is the only place where it connects people too. (It does a pretty good job at it, I can't lie!) S4 - After the mutilation which was the termination of the 455, one could arguably say this is the most established route now considering the fact it follows a previously established routes routing for its last 30% of the journey headed towards Waddon Marsh, give or take. I think give it a few years, and this will be the most established of the 4. Then there's the S1. It's routing has been relatively the same throughout it's history, with the only major changes being the '96 extension into Banstead, and the '01 and '14 extensions into Mitcham then Lavender Fields. People have gotten used to the routing, and it's great at doing it's job. It connects some backroads but is honestly pretty straightforward. Banstead, go up, Sutton, do some backroads, right towards Beddington Corner, up and left again, then a final left and you're at LF. It's also the most frequent of them all and the only one I can see staying as the most frequent, and the one I think they're least likely to change or alter in the future, as it's being doing this same routing and job for 31 years nearly. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 15, 2024 22:26:57 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is. There is no such thing as a pointless or useless route anywhere. Whether the 470 can survive in it's current form is an entirely different argument altogether. |
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Post by bustavane on Sept 16, 2024 7:43:10 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is. There is no such thing as a pointless or useless route anywhere. Whether the 470 can survive in it's current form is an entirely different argument altogether. One (TfL) might argue that the 45 is currently a pointless route as it can be covered by alterations to other routes. Similarly the 414. |
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Post by Busboy105 on Sept 16, 2024 11:51:06 GMT
There is no such thing as a pointless or useless route anywhere. Whether the 470 can survive in it's current form is an entirely different argument altogether. One (TfL) might argue that the 45 is currently a pointless route as it can be covered by alterations to other routes. Similarly the 414. The reason why the 45 and 414 are now "useless" because of the changes that have been made to them |
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Post by DT 11 on Sept 16, 2024 11:57:16 GMT
One (TfL) might argue that the 45 is currently a pointless route as it can be covered by alterations to other routes. Similarly the 414. The reason why the 45 and 414 are now "useless" because of the changes that have been made to them The 45 is not useless. The 414 I would say is. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Sept 18, 2024 14:46:14 GMT
Now that the 470 has been curtailed it is no more than a 6 min walk from another bus route. To be competitive it requires a 20min frequency (ideally a Sunday and evening service as well!) otherwise it makes no sense to use it as opposed to the 80, 154, 164 or even the train between Sutton and Morden. Let’s be real however, the 470 probably doesn’t get enough patronage to justify such a boost so unless there is a restructuring in the local area it is quite a pointless route the way it is. There is no such thing as a pointless or useless route anywhere. Whether the 470 can survive in its current form is an entirely different argument altogether. I feel like redundant is a better word to describe some routes. Specifically for routes that don’t do anything that another route doesn’t already do. Like DT 11 said I wouldn’t say the 45 is redundant in its current form but routes that do feel redundant are the 209 (in its current form), 357 & 414. |
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Post by abellion on Sept 18, 2024 14:56:23 GMT
Or maybe a properly “useless” route is one that could be withdrawn without the need for replacement. In that case there aren’t really any, even ones like the 45 and 414 need other routes to be changed to cater to their withdrawals.
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Post by bk10mfe on Sept 18, 2024 15:00:29 GMT
Or maybe a properly “useless” route is one that could be withdrawn without the need for replacement. In that case there aren’t really any, even ones like the 45 and 414 need other routes to be changed to cater to their withdrawals. I think you could get away with removing the 209 without replacement. It’s not helped by the fact that they often leave Mortlake Bus Station immediately after a 378 leaves. |
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