What bus routes should become 24-hour?

[snoggle]

Apr 21, 2013 22:17:13 GMT @mredd said:

Apr 21, 2013 21:58:13 GMT @londonse7 said:

I agree LC1 a through night bus service from Thamemsead to Bromley via routes 229 and 269 would be a much better idea than running both routes 24 hours.

Upgrading the 122 or P4 to 24 hour services are also good ideas mredd.

Of course, I'm biased about it because I live on the route of both of them, but the last buses on the P4 get a fair few users - by night-time standards anyway. A half hourly service would probably justifiable and would link up Forest Hill to Lewisham again - would also provide links to night services in Brixton which would be a useful connection. The 122 is probably less used and given there are alternative links it's probably less justifiable, though I'd quite like to see one of the two get a night service.

I rather suspect a night P4 might do rather well. The key being decent connecting frequencies at both Brixton and Lewisham coupled with plenty of "unique" bits with decent demand. I suspect the "fly in the ointment" would be the fragile souls in Dulwich Village who would not want their beauty sleep disturbed. It would be an ideal use for quieter hybrid buses if such were available for use on the P4. Pity there are so few single deck hybrids.

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2013 22:31:21 GMT snoggle said:

Apr 21, 2013 22:17:13 GMT @mredd said:

Of course, I'm biased about it because I live on the route of both of them, but the last buses on the P4 get a fair few users - by night-time standards anyway. A half hourly service would probably justifiable and would link up Forest Hill to Lewisham again - would also provide links to night services in Brixton which would be a useful connection. The 122 is probably less used and given there are alternative links it's probably less justifiable, though I'd quite like to see one of the two get a night service.

I rather suspect a night P4 might do rather well. The key being decent connecting frequencies at both Brixton and Lewisham coupled with plenty of "unique" bits with decent demand. I suspect the "fly in the ointment" would be the fragile souls in Dulwich Village who would not want their beauty sleep disturbed. It would be an ideal use for quieter hybrid buses if such were available for use on the P4. Pity there are so few single deck hybrids.

Funnily enough there's conveniently five allocated to TL not doing anything at night which would probably be good candidates. They don't appear much on the route, but they appear to have been used occasionally on there. Only trouble is, Dulwich residents would probably want them on there all day! ;D

A lot of the sections are fairly unique - a lot of areas near me in particular those served in the day by the 284 and P4 have no night service anywhere near them. The 284 is 10 minutes walk from the P4 for most of its journey from Lewisham to Catford. Then you've got all the areas of Honor Oak Park out of reach of the 176 or N171. Then further along there's the unique bits north of the Dulwich area before you get to Brixton - at both ends it would be probably fairly popular. Would also mean it doesn't take me an hour to get home from Lewisham over a distance I can walk in less than half that time! As it stands I have to get a night bus to New Cross Gate and then wait half an hour for an N171!

[Deleted]

With regard to re-introducing a night bus service back on to route 75. I would suggest a night bus service on route 75 between Croydon and Woolwich.

Like route 75 used to run during the day many years ago before the route was re-routed via Catford Rushey Green and curtailed at Lewisham Station.

[jay38a]

The 358 would be a good option, however the main areas could be served with a few adjustments to existing night services if a 24 hour Route 358 wasnt going to be introduced:

• Route N3: Diverted at Bromley South via Route 358 to Orpington Station
  
• Route N2: Extended to Elmers End Green via Birkbeck
  

[COBO]

I think that there should be a 183 running from Northwood to Golders Green via the H11 to Pinner and the 183 to Golders Green. This would provide Norhwood, Northwood Hills, Pinner, Norh Harrow, Kenton and Hendon with a night service.

[DT 11]

Apr 24, 2013 0:01:59 GMT jay38a said:

The 358 would be a good option, however the main areas could be served with a few adjustments to existing night services if a 24 hour Route 358 wasnt going to be introduced:

• Route N3: Diverted at Bromley South via Route 358 to Orpington Station
  
• Route N2: Extended to Elmers End Green via Birkbeck
  

The 358 is almost a 24 Hour Service anyways. I think it should have been 24 hour a while ago.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2013 7:30:12 GMT DT 11 said:

Apr 24, 2013 0:01:59 GMT jay38a said:

The 358 would be a good option, however the main areas could be served with a few adjustments to existing night services if a 24 hour Route 358 wasnt going to be introduced:

• Route N3: Diverted at Bromley South via Route 358 to Orpington Station
  
• Route N2: Extended to Elmers End Green via Birkbeck
  

The 358 is almost a 24 Hour Service anyways. I think it should have been 24 hour a while ago.

Indeed, it shouldn't cost too much to fill in the gap - looks like it's only actually a couple of hours between the first journey and last journey, which at a half-hourly frequency is about 4 journeys each way!

Partly gets a near 24-hour service because the sensible arrangement of in-service garage runs are used.

[southeastlondonbus]

The 486 would be a good option would provide a link across parts of south east London with the Queen Elizabeth hospital at Woolwich which does not have any all night bus routes servng this busy hospital. And would be even more needed if plans to close other A & E units in the area go ahead.

Also the 51 would be a good idea as well as at the moment for example if you want to travel to Woolwich from Sidcup or Welling you have to get a bus to New Cross to pick up a 53 and basically double back on your self.

[jay38a]

Apr 24, 2013 9:40:58 GMT @mredd said:

Apr 24, 2013 7:30:12 GMT DT 11 said:

The 358 is almost a 24 Hour Service anyways. I think it should have been 24 hour a while ago.

Indeed, it shouldn't cost too much to fill in the gap - looks like it's only actually a couple of hours between the first journey and last journey, which at a half-hourly frequency is about 4 journeys each way!

Partly gets a near 24-hour service because the sensible arrangement of in-service garage runs are used.

I have a reason to be believe that the 358 currently doesnt have a 24 hour service is because most of the main parts of the route already have a night service of some sort by the N3 (except Elmers End). Even if a full service to Orpington is not feasible, maybe just extend the N3 to the PRU would be of help.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2013 13:47:12 GMT jay38a said:

Apr 24, 2013 9:40:58 GMT @mredd said:

Indeed, it shouldn't cost too much to fill in the gap - looks like it's only actually a couple of hours between the first journey and last journey, which at a half-hourly frequency is about 4 journeys each way!

Partly gets a near 24-hour service because the sensible arrangement of in-service garage runs are used.

I have a reason to be believe that the 358 currently doesnt have a 24 hour service is because most of the main parts of the route already have a night service of some sort by the N3 (except Elmers End). Even if a full service to Orpington is not feasible, maybe just extend the N3 to the PRU would be of help.

There is a large section between Bromley and Orpington completely without a night bus, however, so it wouldn't be entirely unjustifiable.

I personally think more routes should do in service garage runs if the garage is on the line of route. The 199's buses are all scheduled to terminate at Bellingham, for example. The 171s that terminate at Bellingham could run back in service along to New Cross Gate, supplementing the night service without adding much journey time at all.

[jay38a]

Apr 24, 2013 13:51:35 GMT @mredd said:

Apr 24, 2013 13:47:12 GMT jay38a said:

I have a reason to be believe that the 358 currently doesnt have a 24 hour service is because most of the main parts of the route already have a night service of some sort by the N3 (except Elmers End). Even if a full service to Orpington is not feasible, maybe just extend the N3 to the PRU would be of help.

There is a large section between Bromley and Orpington completely without a night bus, however, so it wouldn't be entirely unjustifiable.

I personally think more routes should do in service garage runs if the garage is on the line of route. The 199's buses are all scheduled to terminate at Bellingham, for example. The 171s that terminate at Bellingham could run back in service along to New Cross Gate, supplementing the night service without adding much journey time at all.

I dont think there would be enough justification to just have it for the section between Bromley Common and Orpington, as custom the other end where the N3 runs would be quite low due to a lot of duplication (i.e Beckenham to Crystal Palace and around Park Langley), thats why I suggested an extension of the N2 and N3 to cover the parts which arnt duplicated.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2013 14:02:17 GMT jay38a said:

Apr 24, 2013 13:51:35 GMT @mredd said:

There is a large section between Bromley and Orpington completely without a night bus, however, so it wouldn't be entirely unjustifiable.

I personally think more routes should do in service garage runs if the garage is on the line of route. The 199's buses are all scheduled to terminate at Bellingham, for example. The 171s that terminate at Bellingham could run back in service along to New Cross Gate, supplementing the night service without adding much journey time at all.

I dont think there would be enough justification to just have it for the section between Bromley Common and Orpington, as custom the other end where the N3 runs would be quite low due to a lot of duplication (i.e Beckenham to Crystal Palace and around Park Langley), thats why I suggested an extension of the N2 and N3 to cover the parts which arnt duplicated.

I agree that wouldn't be a bad idea, though to send the N3 south would either sacrifice the South to North routing in Bromley or mean it has to do a lengthly double run. The 24-hour 358 could also connect up with Crystal Palace shorts on the 3 to provide a sort of through service in that respect - notwithstanding the fact the 3 often gets turned at Crystal Palace anyway. I reckon the duplication would be justified, personally.

[jay38a]

Apr 24, 2013 14:58:48 GMT @mredd said:

Apr 24, 2013 14:02:17 GMT jay38a said:

I dont think there would be enough justification to just have it for the section between Bromley Common and Orpington, as custom the other end where the N3 runs would be quite low due to a lot of duplication (i.e Beckenham to Crystal Palace and around Park Langley), thats why I suggested an extension of the N2 and N3 to cover the parts which arnt duplicated.

I agree that wouldn't be a bad idea, though to send the N3 south would either sacrifice the South to North routing in Bromley or mean it has to do a lengthly double run. The 24-hour 358 could also connect up with Crystal Palace shorts on the 3 to provide a sort of through service in that respect - notwithstanding the fact the 3 often gets turned at Crystal Palace anyway. I reckon the duplication would be justified, personally.

The BN to BS link is not fully lost as the 119 links those two, so the N3 could turn right out of Westmoreland Road into Masons Hill and onto Orpington, or if not do a loop at Bromley South clockwise in both directions via Masons Hill, Kentish Way, Elmfeild Road, Bromley High Street back to Masons Hill.

A quick look at Google Map shows the left turn from Kentish Way into Elmfeild Road is allowed by buses, even though i dont know of occurance its been used, but could have been by buses Not in Service.

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2013 15:16:07 GMT jay38a said:

Apr 24, 2013 14:58:48 GMT @mredd said:

I agree that wouldn't be a bad idea, though to send the N3 south would either sacrifice the South to North routing in Bromley or mean it has to do a lengthly double run. The 24-hour 358 could also connect up with Crystal Palace shorts on the 3 to provide a sort of through service in that respect - notwithstanding the fact the 3 often gets turned at Crystal Palace anyway. I reckon the duplication would be justified, personally.

The BN to BS link is not fully lost as the 119 links those two, so the N3 could turn right out of Westmoreland Road into Masons Hill and onto Orpington, or if not do a loop at Bromley South clockwise in both directions via Masons Hill, Kentish Way, Elmfeild Road, Bromley High Street back to Masons Hill.

A quick look at Google Map shows the left turn from Kentish Way into Elmfeild Road is allowed by buses, even though i dont know of occurance its been used, but could have been by buses Not in Service.

I wonder if a modified routing in Bromley could be used as that would certainly be an improvement. The N3 would probably end up being one of London's longest night routes if it gained that section, as it's got about half an hour's running time on the 358.

I also wonder if the Westmoreland Road routing of the N3 could be used if there was ever interest in double-decking the 358. Shortlands would still have the 227 and 367 to cover it, and the 227 could always receive a slight frequency increase to compensate. I suggest the 358 over the 227 as the 358 already goes along Hayes Lane and through Park Langley, so wouldn't be particularly thrown off its line of route whereas the changes to the 227 would probably make it less direct (and longer end-to-end) as well as requiring a reconfiguration of the 227 through Beckenham. The longer 358 would benefit from deckers more anyway.

[southlondonbus]

The 358 can be busy throughout for lots of the day. I think DDs would be very welcome on the route particularly down to Farnborough and Green Street Green.