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Post by snoggle on Oct 15, 2013 22:12:17 GMT
I quote from this site... But TFL claims there is an overwhelming positive response over the bus. But it will break the reputation of the "new" mayor for withdrawing something which the public loved. Just like Ken when he removed the RM's onto 2 Heritage routes due to people demands to keep them. There have always been talks about having a new "Routemaster" type of bus over the years regardless who supports or opposes it, but now it's there. But the 600 NBFL's is coming by the demands of the public and the publicity it got. (as it shown on Top Gear and world tour.) I don't know whenever its good or bad for London Buses to have another round of their own specific type buses. But at the end of the day, its a bus, people just want to jump on it and travel. But in my opinion, if a next mayor removes it, it will cause damage to their reputation and the industry. But TFL should realistically tweak the NBFL to make it more conventional and economical. Better off start marketing the chassis because of the technology of miles per gallon and emissions. But at the end of the day, its all down to money! ££££ Right - a few comments and then I will shut up. You need to learn to exercise judgement and critical judgement when you read articles. You just seem to take things at face value. I've read that document about what the next Mayor *will* have to do. That is just a left wing view and interpretation that suits a particular stance. Although I'd happily cancel the NB4L contract tomorrow I don't think that article is up to much. It's a load of speculation dressed up as facts. There are a myriad range of choices about what you do with a £6bn budget which is what TfL spends each year. To suggest there is only one outcome is a nonsense. There is no published TfL market research that says anything about the NB4L. If TfL have conducted research then they have clearly decided not to publish it because saying it is all marvellous / rubbish / whatever is never helpful when you are still introducing the bus and it is still suffering teething problems. It is far too early for sensible views to have formed amongst those people who use NB4Ls regularly - they're the people you want to interview. TfL were roundly criticised for publishing research which said the bendy buses were wonderful fairly early in the conversion process. I suspect they don't want to repeat that mistake. The NB4L is a Mayoral manifesto commitment. It is not being made because people marched in their millions demanding the return of the Routemaster because such an event never happened. I get very fed up with people who extrapolate misty eyed romantic notions about the Routemaster into some sort of rock solid, immoveable support for a "new Routemaster". It's just stupid. If people really hated modern buses they wouldn't use them. The simple fact is that the majority of people just don't care about the vehicle - they just want the bus to turn up on time and get them where they are going quickly. Vehicle preference just does not feature in market research conducted by organisations like Passenger Focus whose job it is to understand how passengers view their rail and bus services. You can carry on believing what you like about possible reputational damage for the next Mayor if they commit to withdrawing the NB4L. I doubt people will care. Boris will be gone after 2016 - especially if he gets a parliamentary seat in 2015 - and people will quickly forget his "monuments to his ego". The next Mayor will have huge problems to deal with because the current Mayor has no strategy and no plan to properly expand the transport network so it caters properly for the millions of Londoners who rely on it every day. All the fluff about trade visits and Top Gear is just inconsequential garbage - does anyone care? No. Does it make my local bus turn up reliably? - no. Does it make the tube less crowded in the rush hour? - no. Does it make cycling safer for people? - no. Therefore it is of no importance whatsoever. To quote Public Enemy - "Don't believe the Hype". Exercise some judgement instead.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 16, 2013 0:50:43 GMT
Clearly you don't get it. Maintenance has nothing to do with the argument about the consequences of leasing companies and operators being asked to buy or rent a specialist bus type which is then rendered redundant because a different politician is elected and decides to scrap the buses. Operators and lessors were left with buses with loads of value / years of service remaining but nowhere to use them. Therefore they will NEVER again entertain taking on unusual bus types where political policy may cause premature withdrawal from service or where there is no obvious use for the bus elsewhere in the UK. The madness of recent years may cause long standing damage to London because if other innovative bus designs come along that might be good for London but less use elsewhere no one will buy them or lease them without big financial guarantees being demanded. The Citaros are no issue because they can have seats added within a couple of days and the remote Oyster validators can be removed easily. Heck the centre door could be removed and they could be sent to other Go Ahead fleets for re-use. No issue there. I quote from this site... But TFL claims there is an overwhelming positive response over the bus. But it will break the reputation of the "new" mayor for withdrawing something which the public loved. Just like Ken when he removed the RM's onto 2 Heritage routes due to people demands to keep them. There have always been talks about having a new "Routemaster" type of bus over the years regardless who supports or opposes it, but now it's there. But the 600 NBFL's is coming by the demands of the public and the publicity it got. (as it shown on Top Gear and world tour.) I don't know whenever its good or bad for London Buses to have another round of their own specific type buses. But at the end of the day, its a bus, people just want to jump on it and travel. But in my opinion, if a next mayor removes it, it will cause damage to their reputation and the industry. But TFL should realistically tweak the NBFL to make it more conventional and economical. Better off start marketing the chassis because of the technology of miles per gallon and emissions. But at the end of the day, its all down to money! ££££ Seriously, no one cares!!! Can the thread revert to being about 'route 9', not more of the same repetetive NBfL drivel...! I understand mate, sorry for hijacking the thread, But i clearly know the 9 is getting NBFL's, But I was talking about the operation...etc I think i should rest my case over turning it to another NBFL dilemma. But I think the Pall Mall section of the 9 needs a bus stop in place so people can board and alight for the route 9 bus there. The question is, with its previous operator Sovereign operated the 9, how comes London United is using the same bus type from Sovreign? London United & London Sovereign were operated together since Transdev brought London Sovereign around 2004ish. Transdev then sort about stamping it's name on the buses rather than keeping the London United & Sovereign names until the Transdev/RATP split happened - RATP got London United whilst Transdev held onto London Sovereign. This is why their are VLE's in both fleets, likewise there are DPS, SP's & SLE's in both fleets.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 9:08:28 GMT
Amen snoggle, peoples reading comprehension on this site is absoloutley shocking at times!
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Post by RM5chris on Oct 16, 2013 10:15:24 GMT
Amen snoggle, peoples reading comprehension on this site is absoloutley shocking at times! As is some peoples failure to grasp how to use the quote function.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2013 10:51:53 GMT
Ah!
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Post by l1group on Oct 16, 2013 16:36:45 GMT
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Post by IanF on Oct 16, 2013 17:56:36 GMT
34/W6,Garage finalised yet RM5? Detamour this question should be sent as a pm as it's nothing to do with route 9. P.s I know several people including me have asked before but to avoid any more confusion PLEASE use the quote function from now on.
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Post by RM5chris on Oct 16, 2013 18:15:44 GMT
34/W6,Garage finalised yet RM5? Detamour this question should be sent as a pm as it's nothing to do with route 9. P.s I know several people including me have asked before but to avoid any more confusion PLEASE use the quote function from now on. Probably best it goes in the thread about this subject - I have moved it there.
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 16, 2013 18:55:24 GMT
I certainly agree with you. This NB4L project was just made to make Londoners and tourists happy and that's not what we need. We need more suitable roads, housing and jobs for people to live their lives well, not some poxy Hybrid-Routemasters that has received negative reviews from the day it was introduced. Just a waste of taxpayer's money IMO. I wonder if the commuters will get confusion over the differences of the Routemaster and NBFL. What's this meant to mean lol. The only thing commuters will probably get confused about is the blinds lol.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 17, 2013 8:50:23 GMT
I quote from this site... But TFL claims there is an overwhelming positive response over the bus. But it will break the reputation of the "new" mayor for withdrawing something which the public loved. Just like Ken when he removed the RM's onto 2 Heritage routes due to people demands to keep them. There have always been talks about having a new "Routemaster" type of bus over the years regardless who supports or opposes it, but now it's there. But the 600 NBFL's is coming by the demands of the public and the publicity it got. (as it shown on Top Gear and world tour.) I don't know whenever its good or bad for London Buses to have another round of their own specific type buses. But at the end of the day, its a bus, people just want to jump on it and travel. But in my opinion, if a next mayor removes it, it will cause damage to their reputation and the industry. But TFL should realistically tweak the NBFL to make it more conventional and economical. Better off start marketing the chassis because of the technology of miles per gallon and emissions. But at the end of the day, its all down to money! ££££ Right - a few comments and then I will shut up. You need to learn to exercise judgement and critical judgement when you read articles. You just seem to take things at face value. I've read that document about what the next Mayor *will* have to do. That is just a left wing view and interpretation that suits a particular stance. Although I'd happily cancel the NB4L contract tomorrow I don't think that article is up to much. It's a load of speculation dressed up as facts. There are a myriad range of choices about what you do with a £6bn budget which is what TfL spends each year. To suggest there is only one outcome is a nonsense. There is no published TfL market research that says anything about the NB4L. If TfL have conducted research then they have clearly decided not to publish it because saying it is all marvellous / rubbish / whatever is never helpful when you are still introducing the bus and it is still suffering teething problems. It is far too early for sensible views to have formed amongst those people who use NB4Ls regularly - they're the people you want to interview. TfL were roundly criticised for publishing research which said the bendy buses were wonderful fairly early in the conversion process. I suspect they don't want to repeat that mistake. The NB4L is a Mayoral manifesto commitment. It is not being made because people marched in their millions demanding the return of the Routemaster because such an event never happened. I get very fed up with people who extrapolate misty eyed romantic notions about the Routemaster into some sort of rock solid, immoveable support for a "new Routemaster". It's just stupid. If people really hated modern buses they wouldn't use them. The simple fact is that the majority of people just don't care about the vehicle - they just want the bus to turn up on time and get them where they are going quickly. Vehicle preference just does not feature in market research conducted by organisations like Passenger Focus whose job it is to understand how passengers view their rail and bus services. You can carry on believing what you like about possible reputational damage for the next Mayor if they commit to withdrawing the NB4L. I doubt people will care. Boris will be gone after 2016 - especially if he gets a parliamentary seat in 2015 - and people will quickly forget his "monuments to his ego". The next Mayor will have huge problems to deal with because the current Mayor has no strategy and no plan to properly expand the transport network so it caters properly for the millions of Londoners who rely on it every day. All the fluff about trade visits and Top Gear is just inconsequential garbage - does anyone care? No. Does it make my local bus turn up reliably? - no. Does it make the tube less crowded in the rush hour? - no. Does it make cycling safer for people? - no. Therefore it is of no importance whatsoever. To quote Public Enemy - "Don't believe the Hype". Exercise some judgement instead. I would agree with the vast majority of snoggle's excellent post : just a few comments though - The 'misty-eyed support' for the RM, I feel, is just that : for the original Routemaster - I think a heritage service with original condition buses from London's past would be a great addition to the tourist sights of London. There may well be nostalgic feeling for the NBfL in 30 years time, but I haven't got a crystal ball! I would dispute that Boris doesn't have a strategy - he does have a strategy, but it's not a very good one! It's along the lines of 'let's get as many monuments to Boris-dom as we possibly can in London so that everyone remembers who I am and what I did'. Would be great if it were allied to more substantial projects (more London Overground routes maybe? Or that DLR extension out to Dagenham/Thamesmead? Or extending Tramlink?) But no, it wasn't. And that's how, sadly, I'll view NBfL : it's a nice looking bus with an open platform which may or may not be open, but with no coherent strategy behind it apart from 'hello, I'm Boris, look at my lovely bus'. A shame. London deserves better.
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Post by westhamgeezer on Oct 21, 2013 16:21:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2013 16:29:41 GMT
They forgot to mention on the article that the original Routemasters operates part of route 9.
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route 9
Oct 21, 2013 16:32:43 GMT
via mobile
Post by snowman on Oct 21, 2013 16:32:43 GMT
Entirely means 100%. It also says conductors only between 6am and 6pm Mon- Fri so first two days will be driver only anyway. As all the buses are delivered I think they can fully convert anyway. However I suspect the fun will be Mon 28th when 2 person operation starts. I suspect the VLEs will move from V quickly due to space issues.
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route 9
Oct 21, 2013 16:46:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Connor on Oct 21, 2013 16:46:39 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Oct 21, 2013 17:05:51 GMT
Entirely means 100%. It also says conductors only between 6am and 6pm Mon- Fri so first two days will be driver only anyway. As all the buses are delivered I think they can fully convert anyway. However I suspect the fun will be Mon 28th when 2 person operation starts. I suspect the SLEs will move from V quickly due to space issues. London United will probably have a very busy Friday night / Saturday morning moving vehicles in and out of V. However they have the advantage of an early finish / late start on the 9 because of the way the N9 timetable interworks with the day 9. It will be interesting to see the scale of NB4L operation over the weekend and how gradual (or not) the conversion process is.
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