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Post by snowman on Dec 28, 2013 19:12:38 GMT
hello Everyone, have heard from a friend (but this isn't official) that the 38 is due to be converted after 148. However I'm hearing it wont be in same form as now. I'm told there was a short experiment in November where drivers acted as customer assistants for part of the route (to Balls Pond Road / Mildmay Park area) with OPO beyond to test practicality of changing between crew-OPO mode on route.
My source doesn't know the official outcome, but understands 4 scenarios are being looked at :
1) conductors for part route only (changeover point unknown but presumably somewhere in Islington area)
2) alternate buses not doing whole route (presumably like 25), but obviously the reduced service at Clapton end
3) splitting the route, an NB4L route and a route north of Islington area with normal OPO buses
4) some sort of frequency change (presumably lower to save some money, due to more expensive buses and crew)
Wondering if anyone knows any more, I would have thought 3 is least likely but I'm guessing Clapton is see as too far from central London for conductors (and too expensive), even if conductors are only Mon-Fri daytime (I have no info on hours, but that seems to be the recent trend)
Assuming production continues straight after 148 batch (starting about LT149, delivered 5 per week from start of Feb, would take until about end April to have sufficient buses). Would have thought some phased changeover would take place (initially fully OPO). I'm also assuming that Arriva would cascade the buses and kill about 50 of its oldest euro3 buses without exhaust treatment, others can work out potential fleet moves
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Post by snoggle on Dec 28, 2013 20:16:51 GMT
hello Everyone, have heard from a friend (but this isn't official) that the 38 is due to be converted after 148. However I'm hearing it wont be in same form as now. I'm told there was a short experiment in November where drivers acted as customer assistants for part of the route (to Balls Pond Road / Mildmay Park area) with OPO beyond to test practicality of changing between crew-OPO mode on route. My source doesn't know the official outcome, but understands 4 scenarios are being looked at : 1) conductors for part route only (changeover point unknown but presumably somewhere in Islington area) 2) alternate buses not doing whole route (presumably like 25), but obviously the reduced service at Clapton end 3) splitting the route, an NB4L route and a route north of Islington area with normal OPO buses 4) some sort of frequency change (presumably lower to save some money, due to more expensive buses and crew) Wondering if anyone knows any more, I would have thought 3 is least likely but I'm guessing Clapton is see as too far from central London for conductors (and too expensive), even if conductors are only Mon-Fri daytime (I have no info on hours, but that seems to be the recent trend) Assuming production continues straight after 148 batch (starting about LT149, delivered 5 per week from start of Feb, would take until about end April to have sufficient buses). Would have thought some phased changeover would take place (initially fully OPO). I'm also assuming that Arriva would cascade the buses and kill about 50 of its oldest euro3 buses without exhaust treatment, others can work out potential fleet moves I can't comment on the validity of your 4 scenarios. Leon Daniels did confirm elsewhere that the experiment of part crewing was to establish the viability of "mixed mode" (my term) operation on a busy route like the 38. If TfL go for this concept then I'd expect the changeover to take place at Mildmay Park as Arriva have a crew depot there. I suspect that splitting the 38 would not be popular. OK the loadings are lighter north of Hackney Central but so is the service level. People still ride from Clapton southwards including someone who writes for the Guardian and who uses the 38 regularly. I can't see him being impressed about an enforced change of bus to reach the centre of town from Clapton. TfL must know this and while it'll never be a deciding factor they won't want whingeing comments in the Guardian every couple of weeks! I also can't see the point of another overlap route on the Essex Road corridor which then dumped people at the Angel. The only vaguely compensating factor would be if TfL did something revolutionary like extend the 349 from Stamford Hill through to Islington via the 253 and 38 corridors. That would put in place a long demanded through link (Tottenham - Hackney) but not sure there's the garage capacity in the possible candidate garages in North London. The small danger with another frequency reduction on the 38 is that it only makes sense to cut the peak PVR and deploying NB4Ls reduces capacity anyway. Given the still heavy peak loadings on the 38 I can't see a peak reduction being sensible. If TfL cut off peak frequencies again then you'll simply have very expensive buses sitting around doing nothing which also seems daft (to me anyway). I agree that a cascade of the DWs would be used to kill off the oldest buses although Arriva are supposed to be getting some the "engine fettling" cash from TfL to "green" some of their oldest buses. |
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Post by moz on Dec 28, 2013 20:37:29 GMT
hello Everyone, have heard from a friend (but this isn't official) that the 38 is due to be converted after 148. However I'm hearing it wont be in same form as now. I'm told there was a short experiment in November where drivers acted as customer assistants for part of the route (to Balls Pond Road / Mildmay Park area) with OPO beyond to test practicality of changing between crew-OPO mode on route. My source doesn't know the official outcome, but understands 4 scenarios are being looked at : 1) conductors for part route only (changeover point unknown but presumably somewhere in Islington area) 2) alternate buses not doing whole route (presumably like 25), but obviously the reduced service at Clapton end 3) splitting the route, an NB4L route and a route north of Islington area with normal OPO buses 4) some sort of frequency change (presumably lower to save some money, due to more expensive buses and crew) Wondering if anyone knows any more, I would have thought 3 is least likely but I'm guessing Clapton is see as too far from central London for conductors (and too expensive), even if conductors are only Mon-Fri daytime (I have no info on hours, but that seems to be the recent trend) Assuming production continues straight after 148 batch (starting about LT149, delivered 5 per week from start of Feb, would take until about end April to have sufficient buses). Would have thought some phased changeover would take place (initially fully OPO). I'm also assuming that Arriva would cascade the buses and kill about 50 of its oldest euro3 buses without exhaust treatment, others can work out potential fleet moves I can't comment on the validity of your 4 scenarios. Leon Daniels did confirm elsewhere that the experiment of part crewing was to establish the viability of "mixed mode" (my term) operation on a busy route like the 38. If TfL go for this concept then I'd expect the changeover to take place at Mildmay Park as Arriva have a crew depot there. I suspect that splitting the 38 would not be popular. OK the loadings are lighter north of Hackney Central but so is the service level. People still ride from Clapton southwards including someone who writes for the Guardian and who uses the 38 regularly. I can't see him being impressed about an enforced change of bus to reach the centre of town from Clapton. TfL must know this and while it'll never be a deciding factor they won't want whingeing comments in the Guardian every couple of weeks! I also can't see the point of another overlap route on the Essex Road corridor which then dumped people at the Angel. The only vaguely compensating factor would be if TfL did something revolutionary like extend the 349 from Stamford Hill through to Islington via the 253 and 38 corridors. That would put in place a long demanded through link (Tottenham - Hackney) but not sure there's the garage capacity in the possible candidate garages in North London. The small danger with another frequency reduction on the 38 is that it only makes sense to cut the peak PVR and deploying NB4Ls reduces capacity anyway. Given the still heavy peak loadings on the 38 I can't see a peak reduction being sensible. If TfL cut off peak frequencies again then you'll simply have very expensive buses sitting around doing nothing which also seems daft (to me anyway). I agree that a cascade of the DWs would be used to kill off the oldest buses although Arriva are supposed to be getting some the "engine fettling" cash from TfL to "green" some of their oldest buses. Interesting scenario regarding split working as I remember when the 55 reverted to crew operation a mate from TfL told me that as an alternative they'd considered converting the 25 instead, but only between Oxford Circus and Stratford with buses continuing as OPO to Ilford. Moz |
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 29, 2013 17:10:04 GMT
The 38 is still very busy from Victoria isn't it? Had it not been a split of Victoria to Hackney with NB4L and another route say Piccadilly to Clapton with routes say every 8 mins however I don't think an every 8 min service form Victoria would not be enough.
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Post by cc2005 on Jan 6, 2014 10:02:34 GMT
I recall someone mentioning on this thread that the driver can't open just one of the doors on the NBfL (in OPO mode), and when they open the doors, all three open..
I was on LT56 the other day and late in the evening, the driver opened only the front and middle doors, and kept the rear doors closed! How did he do that?!
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Post by TA1 on Jan 6, 2014 12:29:13 GMT
I recall someone mentioning on this thread that the driver can't open just one of the doors on the NBfL (in OPO mode), and when they open the doors, all three open.. I was on LT56 the other day and late in the evening, the driver opened only the front and middle doors, and kept the rear doors closed! How did he do that?! Under the assumption, the LT's similar to the citaros have three switches that operate and control the doors and effectively imitate selective door operation(SDO) as used on trains. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 12:51:10 GMT
I recall someone mentioning on this thread that the driver can't open just one of the doors on the NBfL (in OPO mode), and when they open the doors, all three open.. I was on LT56 the other day and late in the evening, the driver opened only the front and middle doors, and kept the rear doors closed! How did he do that?! Under the assumption, the LT's similar to the citaros have three switches that operate and control the doors and effectively imitate selective door operation(SDO) as used on trains. The LT's have one open door switch and three close door switches. The driver probably pushed the open button and immediatly pushed the close rear door button, unless maybe there was a fault with the rear door? |
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Post by snoggle on Jan 6, 2014 12:55:02 GMT
Under the assumption, the LT's similar to the citaros have three switches that operate and control the doors and effectively imitate selective door operation(SDO) as used on trains. The LT's have one open door switch and three close door switches. The driver probably pushed the open button and immediatly pushed the close rear door button, unless maybe there was a fault with the rear door? I travelled on a couple of LTs (running in OPO mode) the other day and the rear door did not open but front and centre doors did. I wonder if there has been a tweak to the design? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 12:58:42 GMT
The LT's have one open door switch and three close door switches. The driver probably pushed the open button and immediatly pushed the close rear door button, unless maybe there was a fault with the rear door? I travelled on a couple of LTs (running in OPO mode) the other door and the rear door did not open but front and centre doors did. I wonder if there has been a tweak to the design? Possibly? It did seem a bit illogical to me that all three doors had to be opened at each stop. |
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Post by M1104 on Jan 6, 2014 18:01:13 GMT
Under the assumption, the LT's similar to the citaros have three switches that operate and control the doors and effectively imitate selective door operation(SDO) as used on trains. The LT's have one open door switch and three close door switches. The driver probably pushed the open button and immediatly pushed the close rear door button, unless maybe there was a fault with the rear door? Reminds me a bit of Stockwells VC class Volvos for the 133 where you only had three buttons (no foot switch) and have to press two buttons to open one door but keep the other closed. I assume it was the same with the F reg Volvos on the 24. VC28-39 (for the 196) had the four button version. |
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Post by M1104 on Jan 6, 2014 18:13:15 GMT
I travelled on a couple of LTs (running in OPO mode) the other door and the rear door did not open but front and centre doors did. I wonder if there has been a tweak to the design? Possibly? It did seem a bit illogical to me that all three doors had to be opened at each stop. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a button to open all three doors, but I see that button as an option in addition to individual door opening. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 18:23:12 GMT
Possibly? It did seem a bit illogical to me that all three doors had to be opened at each stop. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a button to open all three doors, but I see that button as an option in addition to individual door opening. A driver told me there is only the one button and it opens all three doors |
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Post by M1104 on Jan 6, 2014 18:38:23 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a button to open all three doors, but I see that button as an option in addition to individual door opening. A driver told me there is only the one button and it opens all three doors Then there must have some sort of a lockout switch which can be flicked accordingly. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2014 19:26:39 GMT
A driver told me there is only the one button and it opens all three doors Then there must have some sort of a lockout switch which can be flicked accordingly. It was on the Metroline batch for the 24, doors could not be opened individually. Later batches may be different? |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Jan 15, 2014 18:38:35 GMT
This is a random thought but I was wondering whether route 1 could become NB4L operated seeing as BoJo wanted NB4Ls in the suburbs.
Route 1 also runs into Central London aswell and could possibly be the only route alongside route 188 to have NB4Ls in the Surrey Quays/Canada Water area (can't really see 47 being NB4L, probably Hybrid-operated).
AFAIK, there doesn't seem to be any restriction on the route other than the tight turning into Surrey Quays Shopping Centre (towards TCR) unless modifications are done there.
I'm not sure if NB4Ls could run on the N1 as some of the roads in Pepys Estate are quite narrow for them and also not to mention the hill it climbs towards Evelyn Street which has badly parked cars along them.
There could probably be some restrictions around the Thamesmead area aswell.
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