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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 17:47:07 GMT
The LTs being made free from the 38/73 could be reallocated to routes that already have a partial LT allocation such as the 176 or 332. The hybrids displaced can then be used for any upcoming tenders. All in all, costs are massively reduced since there will be no need for LT route tests, driver type training, new buses etc. But seeing as TFL are looking to move LTs to the suburbs in the future, it probably won't happen. If that's the case, I'd like to see LTs in areas where they're non-existent such as Bexleyheath, Croydon or Bromley. The 332 doesn't have a partial allocation - it uses LT's because of a lack of spare deckers the same way the 32 did. The 176 however would seem a logical place - it roughly has around 13 LT's and would only about another 13 on top for a full allocation. Makes a lot of sense. The Arriva PVR reductions certainly caused some speculation especially with east London routes for some reason.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 4, 2020 18:00:48 GMT
The 332 doesn't have a partial allocation - it uses LT's because of a lack of spare deckers the same way the 32 did. The 176 however would seem a logical place - it roughly has around 13 LT's and would only about another 13 on top for a full allocation. Makes a lot of sense. The Arriva PVR reductions certainly caused some speculation especially with east London routes for some reason. I think it's the 238 using LT's during line closures that probably prompted it
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Post by greg on Sept 4, 2020 20:50:13 GMT
With the PVR reductions on the 38/73, I don’t think these will be used on a new contract for the route since they are hybrid so my money is on a route thats in the middle of a contract.
The 238. Perfect fit and also tested already and has a part allocation during District Line closures. It also will be very good for Stagecoach as Stagecoach are having a huge vehicle shortage at the moment with East London. Having to loan ADEs from RATP and Arriva must be very costly (173, 256 and school routes).
The 238’s E400s can be used to support the 173 and some spares while the 238 gets LTs, 256 gets the loaned ADEs at RATP or keeps its E200s, and the 246 temporarily using the ex-323 E200s.
The 238 is currently out for tender though, so who knows if it gets some electrics. It could be a similar situation with the 67 which was awarded to Go Ahead just weeks after its LT conversion.
Just speculation.
The 242 I don’t think can fit LTs near Homerton, Clapton Park and Millfields those roads are quite tight and have very awkward turns.
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Post by ronnie on Sept 4, 2020 21:02:19 GMT
With the PVR reductions on the 38/73, I don’t think these will be used on a new contract for the route since they are hybrid so my money is on a route thats in the middle of a contract. The 238. Perfect fit and also tested already and has a part allocation during District Line closures. It also will be very good for Stagecoach as Stagecoach are having a huge vehicle shortage at the moment with East London. Having to loan ADEs from RATP and Arriva must be very costly (173, 256 and school routes). The 238’s E400s can be used to support the 173 and some spares while the 238 gets LTs, 256 gets the loaned ADEs at RATP or keeps its E200s, and the 246 temporarily using the ex-323 E200s. The 238 is currently out for tender though, so who knows if it gets some electrics. It could be a similar situation with the 67 which was awarded to Go Ahead just weeks after its LT conversion. Just speculation. The 242 I don’t think can fit LTs near Homerton, Clapton Park and Millfields those roads are quite tight and have very awkward turns. Apologies for the stupid question (I must have missed it) but what are these PVR reductions on the 38/73? Must have missed it
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2020 21:07:27 GMT
With the PVR reductions on the 38/73, I don’t think these will be used on a new contract for the route since they are hybrid so my money is on a route thats in the middle of a contract. The 238. Perfect fit and also tested already and has a part allocation during District Line closures. It also will be very good for Stagecoach as Stagecoach are having a huge vehicle shortage at the moment with East London. Having to loan ADEs from RATP and Arriva must be very costly (173, 256 and school routes). The 238’s E400s can be used to support the 173 and some spares while the 238 gets LTs, 256 gets the loaned ADEs at RATP or keeps its E200s, and the 246 temporarily using the ex-323 E200s. The 238 is currently out for tender though, so who knows if it gets some electrics. It could be a similar situation with the 67 which was awarded to Go Ahead just weeks after its LT conversion. Just speculation. The 242 I don’t think can fit LTs near Homerton, Clapton Park and Millfields those roads are quite tight and have very awkward turns. Maybe I'm wrong but I assume its TfL who decides where the LTs go? Don't see why they would do Stagecoach a favour and convert the route to help them out with its shortages. Also could be wrong but assume the only reason the 238 has LTs for rail replacement is because these buses are surplus at weekends.
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Post by richard on Sept 4, 2020 21:24:13 GMT
With the PVR reductions on the 38/73, I don’t think these will be used on a new contract for the route since they are hybrid so my money is on a route thats in the middle of a contract. The 238. Perfect fit and also tested already and has a part allocation during District Line closures. It also will be very good for Stagecoach as Stagecoach are having a huge vehicle shortage at the moment with East London. Having to loan ADEs from RATP and Arriva must be very costly (173, 256 and school routes). The 238’s E400s can be used to support the 173 and some spares while the 238 gets LTs, 256 gets the loaned ADEs at RATP or keeps its E200s, and the 246 temporarily using the ex-323 E200s. The 238 is currently out for tender though, so who knows if it gets some electrics. It could be a similar situation with the 67 which was awarded to Go Ahead just weeks after its LT conversion. Just speculation. The 242 I don’t think can fit LTs near Homerton, Clapton Park and Millfields those roads are quite tight and have very awkward turns. Apologies for the stupid question (I must have missed it) but what are these PVR reductions on the 38/73? Must have missed it For the 38 it's 10 not sure about the 73
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Post by greg on Sept 4, 2020 22:00:34 GMT
Apologies for the stupid question (I must have missed it) but what are these PVR reductions on the 38/73? Must have missed it For the 38 it's 10 not sure about the 73 73 has not been confirmed yet but I expect it to lose about 2-5 buses. Its my local and is completely overbussed.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2020 0:32:49 GMT
With the PVR reductions on the 38/73, I don’t think these will be used on a new contract for the route since they are hybrid so my money is on a route thats in the middle of a contract. The 238. Perfect fit and also tested already and has a part allocation during District Line closures. It also will be very good for Stagecoach as Stagecoach are having a huge vehicle shortage at the moment with East London. Having to loan ADEs from RATP and Arriva must be very costly (173, 256 and school routes). The 238’s E400s can be used to support the 173 and some spares while the 238 gets LTs, 256 gets the loaned ADEs at RATP or keeps its E200s, and the 246 temporarily using the ex-323 E200s. The 238 is currently out for tender though, so who knows if it gets some electrics. It could be a similar situation with the 67 which was awarded to Go Ahead just weeks after its LT conversion. Just speculation. The 242 I don’t think can fit LTs near Homerton, Clapton Park and Millfields those roads are quite tight and have very awkward turns. Are you suggesting the 38 & 73 will not use LT's on their next contracts despite the fact if both don't get 2 year extensions, they can do another contract with LT's or are you suggesting the LT's made spare from the cuts will not be used for a new contract on any route? If 13 LT's come spare or a similar number, the 176 would be my bet simply because it already has a partial allocation of LT's so would surely make sense to finish it off. I do admit though that the same number of LT's should fit the 238's TVR perfectly.
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Post by 10121ddo on Sept 5, 2020 1:17:06 GMT
My concern for LTs on the 238 is their ability to navigate the zig-zagging required when going from Plashet Grove to Plashet Road. IIRC, the turns into either road from Green Street is tight-ish. Indeed, District Line closure extras on the route seem to work fine and appear on this stretch of the route. But it’s just when traffic gets at its worst on that stretch, it’s a horrific ordeal tackling that road. I remember I caught 15107 on a 238U a year or two ago. I only made it as a result of the midday traffic mayhem on Green Street inducing a 3-4 minute delay for the Scania. Impatient drivers pulling out on red lights and others straddling into incorrect lanes were to blame for the large part of the chaos. Then again, when it comes to WH drivers, they can squeeze between just about anything with a Scania when they put their mind to it, so I’m sure an LT will be just fine
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Post by COBO on Sept 5, 2020 2:10:42 GMT
I wonder what will happen to the LTs after they are withdrawn.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 5, 2020 2:33:59 GMT
I wonder what will happen to the LTs after they are withdrawn. I imagine most will end up scrapped - not much market for a modified 3 door bus at 11.2m when provincial operators could purchase Enviro 400XLB's instead at a more simple and luxurious spec. A few will no doubt enter presevation and as much as I despise them, it still should have at least one preserved as should all types, yes even horrid Enviro 200's.
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Post by COBO on Sept 5, 2020 2:57:32 GMT
I wonder what will happen to the LTs after they are withdrawn. I imagine most will end up scrapped - not much market for a modified 3 door bus at 11.2m when provincial operators could purchase Enviro 400XLB's instead at a more simple and luxurious spec. A few will no doubt enter presevation and as much as I despise them, it still should have at least one preserved as should all types, yes even horrid Enviro 200's. How many LTs are there?
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Post by snowman on Sept 5, 2020 5:13:32 GMT
I imagine most will end up scrapped - not much market for a modified 3 door bus at 11.2m when provincial operators could purchase Enviro 400XLB's instead at a more simple and luxurious spec. A few will no doubt enter presevation and as much as I despise them, it still should have at least one preserved as should all types, yes even horrid Enviro 200's. How many LTs are there? 999
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Sept 5, 2020 5:17:39 GMT
The LTs being made free from the 38/73 could be reallocated to routes that already have a partial LT allocation such as the 176 or 332. The hybrids displaced can then be used for any upcoming tenders. All in all, costs are massively reduced since there will be no need for LT route tests, driver type training, new buses etc. But seeing as TFL are looking to move LTs to the suburbs in the future, it probably won't happen. If that's the case, I'd like to see LTs in areas where they're non-existent such as Bexleyheath, Croydon or Bromley. What about routes like the 279 or 329. Busy routes that are relatively straight so no tight turns to deal with. Another straight line route that could get LTs would be route 109. Then spare E40Hs could replace E400Hs for the next route E9 tender or for potential future gains, such as route 65.
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Post by COBO on Sept 5, 2020 5:18:29 GMT
That’s a lot. Can TfL get rid of them all by 2030? I think that the withdrawal will happen sooner rather than later.
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