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Post by SILENCED on Sept 8, 2020 17:09:24 GMT
Interesting to see a LT on a route that goes out of M25 boundary and the Greater London area. I bet a reason it is being converted is in line with Arriva's bid to retain route 313 upon contract renewal next year. Smart move by Arriva I must say. However this tactic could obviously quite easily backfire, as now the allocation can move with the route giving every competitor an existing advantage Only if they know the route is planned to convert to LTs, and we are halfway through the bid submission period.
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Post by busoccultation on Sept 8, 2020 17:09:54 GMT
Seen elsewhere from a reliable source that the 313 is going LT soon. Yes phased in from October 10th which I assume is the day the reductions on the 29 and 38 are implemented? The 313 does seem a strange choice but as you say this does come from a reliable source. It would be week after the reductions planned for the 38 & 73, though the ones just from the 38 would be enough as it's getting a PVR reduction of 10 and the 313 only needs 9 LT's (including the normal school scheduled bus) to complete its allocation.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 17:18:31 GMT
Thankfully the 325 seems to have escaped the LTs this time around
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Post by Green Kitten on Sept 8, 2020 18:08:17 GMT
Had I still been living in Potters Bar, I would have been quite happy with this arrangement. Anything is better than those ENXs. (I don't mind LTs at all, so there's that )
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Post by redbus on Sept 8, 2020 18:44:29 GMT
I don't think the 2 can take it, I believe it failed a route test? However TfL appear to be more lenient with what routes can take them (such as the 19, which they said couldn't take it). The Norwood end should be ok as it runs alongside other LT routes beyond Brixton. I'm not quite sure on its routing beyond Oxford Street. I know the N2 would likely not use them as the N137 doesn't. The Marylebone end could be problematic in respect of the turns to get to / from Hayes Place where the stand is. The stand is situated in rather a poor position and now the 205 no longer serves Marylebone station itself and only the 2 does, perhaps the stand could be re-sited in Marylebone station.
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Post by george on Sept 8, 2020 19:08:34 GMT
I wonder if the 2 would also then be considered. I don't think the 2 can take it, I believe it failed a route test? However TfL appear to be more lenient with what routes can take them (such as the 19, which they said couldn't take it). Pretty sure only a road traffic island had to be removed Howie Street in order for the 19 to take LTs? The reason that stops 14,49,345 and 414 is the traffic island on the left turn from Fulham Road to Pelham Street. Although Putney bridge might also be a problem for the 414.
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Post by busoccultation on Sept 8, 2020 19:25:44 GMT
I don't think the 2 can take it, I believe it failed a route test? However TfL appear to be more lenient with what routes can take them (such as the 19, which they said couldn't take it). Pretty sure only a road traffic island had to be removed Howie Street in order for the 19 to take LTs? The reason that stops 14,49,345 and 414 is the traffic island on the left turn from Fulham Road to Pelham Street. Although Putney bridge might also be a problem for the 414. It was the stop line at the traffic lights on Parkgate Road that was moved back slightly to accommodate the LT's on the 19, looking at the Street View the changes to the road markings happened some point in 2014/15.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 8, 2020 20:19:39 GMT
No disrespect to the 313 but TFL clearly dont have much respect for the LT now if they put them on the 313.
I'd still rather they moved to Go ahead to complete the 176. Then use the current EHs for either the 132 or 180.
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Post by greenboy on Sept 8, 2020 20:26:46 GMT
No disrespect to the 313 but TFL clearly dont have much respect for the LT now if they put them on the 313. I'd still rather they moved to Go ahead to complete the 176. Then use the current EHs for either the 132 or 180. The 313 certainly does seem a strange choice, I'd have thought it would make more sense to put LTs on routes like the 279 and 349 at E and move the T/DWs to the 313.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 8, 2020 20:27:23 GMT
No disrespect to the 313 but TFL clearly dont have much respect for the LT now if they put them on the 313. I'd still rather they moved to Go ahead to complete the 176. Then use the current EHs for either the 132 or 180. I think that TfL lost the plot with keeping them on major routes a long time ago when we ended up with routes such as the 415 and 254 converting, and then made even worse with the ELT and 267 which don't even make it to Zone 1 and now we have them leaving the M25. It's pretty much just a case of placing them where appropriate now. The 313, 325 and 289 are probably all deserving of DD fleets in the near future. The 313 has the lowest PVR of all three routes and is covered fully by the PVR cut on the 38. Fingers crossed the 325 and 289 still get their DD conversions in the form of the 325 getting Ex 173 buses and the 289 with the old 160 buses (with the 319s buses moving to the 160 for the new contract if retained).
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 8, 2020 20:54:09 GMT
The 415 was the first surprise definitely. The 254 not so much as it matches the 253 giving passengers a common type and incase they are either quicker (when the 3 door was in operation) atleast the 253 and 254 would have the same journey time on the common section.
The 267 as we know was purely a way of not needing to upgrade the SLEs for the Chiswick green bus zone. I did hear the 259 was initially thought the recipient of the last batch.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2020 21:01:34 GMT
No disrespect to the 313 but TFL clearly dont have much respect for the LT now if they put them on the 313. I'd still rather they moved to Go ahead to complete the 176. Then use the current EHs for either the 132 or 180. I would expect more and more conversions like this as the years go on. Probably in the minority but don't think many will stay on the central routes for two full contract terms. Will probably end up even seeing them on school contracts at some point too.
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Post by astock5000 on Sept 8, 2020 21:45:21 GMT
No disrespect to the 313 but TFL clearly dont have much respect for the LT now if they put them on the 313. I'd still rather they moved to Go ahead to complete the 176. Then use the current EHs for either the 132 or 180. I think that TfL lost the plot with keeping them on major routes a long time ago when we ended up with routes such as the 415 and 254 converting, and then made even worse with the ELT and 267 which don't even make it to Zone 1 and now we have them leaving the M25. It's pretty much just a case of placing them where appropriate now. The 313, 325 and 289 are probably all deserving of DD fleets in the near future. The 313 has the lowest PVR of all three routes and is covered fully by the PVR cut on the 38. Fingers crossed the 325 and 289 still get their DD conversions in the form of the 325 getting Ex 173 buses and the 289 with the old 160 buses (with the 319s buses moving to the 160 for the new contract if retained). The 254 (along with 253) never seemed too inappropriate to me, only just reaching the edge of Central London but together forming a busy 'corridor' through inner Northeast London. The early routes converted (24, 11 etc) were all very much Central London services, but once the obvious ones which could take LTs had them, the buses would of course spread out more as further batches arrived. ELT could be considered a special case too due to the high-profile nature of that network, even if it otherwise would have been odd to run LTs in the Barking area. However with the 67, 267, 415 and long term part allocation on the 176, I get the impression that these were simply 'easy' routes to use surplus LTs on without having to shuffle buses around between operators. Aside from buses transferring with a route there have only been a handful moving to another company (LT8 Arriva - Metroline after prototype Euro-VI upgrade, then three RATP - Metroline for revised 390 and one Metroline - Stagecoach for extended 55). There has usually been at least one garage with a number of surplus buses and with a fleet of 1000 it should, in theory, be possible to transfer buses where needed to convert suitable routes, cover for others off the road (which could them move elsewhere when available again), and so on. There would presumably be a cost for things such as changing logos and replacing operator-specific equipment, so maybe that could be a reason this is not done frequently, but I can't help but feel the fleet isn't used as effectively as it could otherwise be.
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Post by greg on Sept 8, 2020 22:09:15 GMT
At the time of the LT900+ series it seemed like TFL were just plotting them on random routes as there were not many routes at the time to convert as some just got new normal vehicles instead and by then the whole London attraction this bus had died out and they were just normal buses. It is nice the 313 is getting them as it brings them to a whole new area so hope the 313 locals like the interior change and the extra deck and the the extra door which some drivers still open. I assume another route will be half converting as the 38 will still have 1 spare from its cut aswell as the 73 which I will think will lose about 2-7 buses which will probably go to the 289 as heard the 325 is quite tight.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 8, 2020 22:56:26 GMT
At the time of the LT900+ series it seemed like TFL were just plotting them on random routes as there were not many routes at the time to convert as some just got new normal vehicles instead and by then the whole London attraction this bus had died out and they were just normal buses. It is nice the 313 is getting them as it brings them to a whole new area so hope the 313 locals like the interior change and the extra deck and the the extra door which some drivers still open. I assume another route will be half converting as the 38 will still have 1 spare from its cut aswell as the 73 which I will think will lose about 2-7 buses which will probably go to the 289 as heard the 325 is quite tight. The 38 will have 2 left over once 8 LT's move to the 313 - no details have been released about the 73's cut so too early to say but the 289 would need more vehicles than the 2+2-7 as at most, that only makes 11.
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