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Post by M1104 on Sept 8, 2020 23:21:54 GMT
At the time of the LT900+ series it seemed like TFL were just plotting them on random routes as there were not many routes at the time to convert as some just got new normal vehicles instead and by then the whole London attraction this bus had died out and they were just normal buses. It is nice the 313 is getting them as it brings them to a whole new area so hope the 313 locals like the interior change and the extra deck and the the extra door which some drivers still open. I assume another route will be half converting as the 38 will still have 1 spare from its cut aswell as the 73 which I will think will lose about 2-7 buses which will probably go to the 289 as heard the 325 is quite tight. The 38 will have 2 left over once 8 LT's move to the 313 - no details have been released about the 73's cut so too early to say but the 289 would need more vehicles than the 2+2-7 as at most, that only makes 11. The 289 could 'possibly' then operate with a mixture of double and single deckers (somewhat like the 200 was) until more deckers are available.
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Post by BK15AZR on Sept 8, 2020 23:36:59 GMT
The 415 was the first surprise definitely. The 254 not so much as it matches the 253 giving passengers a common type and incase they are either quicker (when the 3 door was in operation) atleast the 253 and 254 would have the same journey time on the common section. The 267 as we know was purely a way of not needing to upgrade the SLEs for the Chiswick green bus zone. I did hear the 259 was initially thought the recipient of the last batch. In fact the 3-door boarding was quite useful for more efficient operation of the 254 along the busy corridor between Hackney and Aldgate/Whitechapel. Saw loads of passengers forming three queues when an LT approached the stands along Mile End Road when the rear boarding was still in use.
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Post by richard on Sept 8, 2020 23:59:47 GMT
At the time of the LT900+ series it seemed like TFL were just plotting them on random routes as there were not many routes at the time to convert as some just got new normal vehicles instead and by then the whole London attraction this bus had died out and they were just normal buses. It is nice the 313 is getting them as it brings them to a whole new area so hope the 313 locals like the interior change and the extra deck and the the extra door which some drivers still open. I assume another route will be half converting as the 38 will still have 1 spare from its cut aswell as the 73 which I will think will lose about 2-7 buses which will probably go to the 289 as heard the 325 is quite tight. The 38 will have 2 left over once 8 LT's move to the 313 - no details have been released about the 73's cut so too early to say but the 289 would need more vehicles than the 2+2-7 as at most, that only makes 11. The 19 would be a good candidate for the remaining LTs from the 73 to complete the allocation. LT519 is already at AR along with LT476 and 477 from BN those are the two obvious ones that will make up the allocation.
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Post by M1104 on Sept 9, 2020 0:21:47 GMT
Hmm I don’t think they will remain in Central personally but AD is a good choice for the 329/340 and the occasional stray on the 141. I would not reccomend LTs on the 29 or 141 full time due to how simply overcrowded they get and the limited standing room the LTs have which will not be suitable for these two routes. I don’t think the 78 can rake them at Nunhead and neither the 242 at Clapton, so my best shout would either be the 333 or 341. Would they be able to navigate the tight stand area at Tooting Broadway on the 333? Should be able to as the 127 under Mitcham Belle had long wheel base Darts terminating there, which are a bit shorter than the LTs (which I'm told have a better turning circle in comparison) . What could be done mind you is to extend the 131 to the nearby redundant Tooting: Mitre stand so as to create more space at the Longmead Road stand.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 9, 2020 1:24:23 GMT
The 38 will have 2 left over once 8 LT's move to the 313 - no details have been released about the 73's cut so too early to say but the 289 would need more vehicles than the 2+2-7 as at most, that only makes 11. The 19 would be a good candidate for the remaining LTs from the 73 to complete the allocation. LT519 is already at AR along with LT476 and 477 from BN those are the two obvious ones that will make up the allocation. The 19 should already have the 29 LT's it requires
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abz91
Conductor
Posts: 128
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Post by abz91 on Sept 9, 2020 2:41:39 GMT
LTz for 313 Chingford Station to Potters Bar that’s big Upgrade first LTz. Chingford area and Potters Bar
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Post by westhamgeezer on Sept 9, 2020 20:31:19 GMT
Just seen this.... does the 38 and 73 really justify a cut at this moment in time with restricted passenger numbers? I'm sure they've lost a lot, but would have thought they were still busy? I've not ventured out for 6 months so can't comment from observations on the ground
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Post by george on Sept 9, 2020 20:35:24 GMT
Just seen this.... does the 38 and 73 really justify a cut at this moment in time with restricted passenger numbers? I'm sure they've lost a lot, but would have thought they were still busy? I've not ventured out for 6 months so can't comment from observations on the ground The 38 is the most overbussed route in the whole of London. I don't disagree it's busy but not to the extend that it needs a bus behind one another every 2 seconds. There's 100 other routes in London that are just as busy in London but don't get the help that the 38 gets. Can't comment on the 73 but greg suggests a cut wouldn't be too bad.
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Post by MoEnviro on Sept 9, 2020 20:37:52 GMT
Just seen this.... does the 38 and 73 really justify a cut at this moment in time with restricted passenger numbers? I'm sure they've lost a lot, but would have thought they were still busy? I've not ventured out for 6 months so can't comment from observations on the ground TfL would probably have been assessing those routes 9-12 (if not more) months ago, processing these changes from start to finish is generally not quick. Add in a delay for Covid and it becomes even longer.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 9, 2020 20:57:57 GMT
The 38 was probably being reviewed once it was decided to keep the 19 due to the large common section.
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Post by greg on Sept 9, 2020 21:20:04 GMT
Just seen this.... does the 38 and 73 really justify a cut at this moment in time with restricted passenger numbers? I'm sure they've lost a lot, but would have thought they were still busy? I've not ventured out for 6 months so can't comment from observations on the ground The 38 is the most overbussed route in the whole of London. I don't disagree it's busy but not to the extend that it needs a bus behind one another every 2 seconds. There's 100 other routes in London that are just as busy in London but don't get the help that the 38 gets. Can't comment on the 73 but greg suggests a cut wouldn't be too bad. Yes and the reasoning to this is: - The 73 never received a PVR cut with its cut to Oxford Circus so it does not justify any like high patronage like it used to, its main support is the 390 between King’s Cross and Oxford Circus and even Tottenham Court Road with Goodge Street does not have the 73 picking up. The 73 is the second most frequent route but the least used out of the 24, 29 and 390. It needs a PVR cut as the route then becomes residental between Pentonville Road (Penton Street) all the way to Stoke Newington except at Upper Street, Angel Station. The current PVR is 35 and it should manage with a PVR of 23/24 imo. The route does not take anywhere as long as it used to as the real congestion is on Euston Road and Pentonville Road, the 476 supports this route between King’s Cross and Stoke Newington also aswell as the 390 between King’s Cross and Victoria. - Another thing is, if the 73 had a PVR cut buses could actually be busier as people would be waiting for the same bus and it would actually fill up, a 7-8 minute frequency is perfect for the 73 rather than 3 buses coming every 4 minutes, its crazy. Maybe being a little generous but the 73’s good PVR estimate should be about 21-24 on normal hours and maybe 24-26 during peak The 24 does amazing and it only has a PVR of 18, the 31 has a PVR of 15 and carry a lot more loads than the 73 does observationally.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 9, 2020 21:39:26 GMT
How about the 370? Or 78? The 370 should be fine for a LT even though it does have to do a full swing turning around at Upminster Station, not sure about the 78 unless there is a issue getting a LT around Nunhead then the 78 is fine to use LT's. The only problem with the 78 is departing nunhead, lausanne Rd. One of the islands, it is very old cast iron casing type and in wrong location could scrape the lt as happened with the ha and t bus if not taken carefully. If removed it should not pose a problem.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Sept 9, 2020 21:44:03 GMT
No disrespect to the 313 but TFL clearly dont have much respect for the LT now if they put them on the 313. I'd still rather they moved to Go ahead to complete the 176. Then use the current EHs for either the 132 or 180. I think that TfL lost the plot with keeping them on major routes a long time ago when we ended up with routes such as the 415 and 254 converting, and then made even worse with the ELT and 267 which don't even make it to Zone 1 and now we have them leaving the M25. It's pretty much just a case of placing them where appropriate now. The 313, 325 and 289 are probably all deserving of DD fleets in the near future. The 313 has the lowest PVR of all three routes and is covered fully by the PVR cut on the 38. Fingers crossed the 325 and 289 still get their DD conversions in the form of the 325 getting Ex 173 buses and the 289 with the old 160 buses (with the 319s buses moving to the 160 for the new contract if retained). The 254 is a major route. It was the busier section of the 253 split in 2003. Before the split it was the busiest route. At its height the 254 had a 34 bus pvr. It was a candidate for bendy bus conversion. Before patronage dropped over past few years, in morning peak both 253 and 254 were leaving people between upper Clapton and Manor House as they were extremely busy.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 9, 2020 22:38:09 GMT
The 38 is the most overbussed route in the whole of London. I don't disagree it's busy but not to the extend that it needs a bus behind one another every 2 seconds. There's 100 other routes in London that are just as busy in London but don't get the help that the 38 gets. Can't comment on the 73 but greg suggests a cut wouldn't be too bad. Yes and the reasoning to this is: - The 73 never received a PVR cut with its cut to Oxford Circus so it does not justify any like high patronage like it used to, its main support is the 390 between King’s Cross and Oxford Circus and even Tottenham Court Road with Goodge Street does not have the 73 picking up. The 73 is the second most frequent route but the least used out of the 24, 29 and 390. It needs a PVR cut as the route then becomes residental between Pentonville Road (Penton Street) all the way to Stoke Newington except at Upper Street, Angel Station. The current PVR is 35 and it should manage with a PVR of 23/24 imo. The route does not take anywhere as long as it used to as the real congestion is on Euston Road and Pentonville Road, the 476 supports this route between King’s Cross and Stoke Newington also aswell as the 390 between King’s Cross and Victoria. - Another thing is, if the 73 had a PVR cut buses could actually be busier as people would be waiting for the same bus and it would actually fill up, a 7-8 minute frequency is perfect for the 73 rather than 3 buses coming every 4 minutes, its crazy. Maybe being a little generous but the 73’s good PVR estimate should be about 21-24 on normal hours and maybe 24-26 during peak The 24 does amazing and it only has a PVR of 18, the 31 has a PVR of 15 and carry a lot more loads than the 73 does observationally. The 73 did receive a PVR cut when it cut back to Oxford Circus - I believe it dropped from 53 to either 40 or to the current PVR of 34. Cutting PVR’s & frequencies carry a massive risk of seeing passengers vote with their feet and use alternative methods such as Uber especially any cut from 34 to 21-24. EDIT: You say that the 73 is the least used out of the 24, 29 & 390 but that's not exactly true - the 24 saw 2m less passengers than the 73 in 2018-19 whilst the 390 saw only 500,000 more than the 73 over the same period. The 29 is well out on front with over 13m
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Post by richard on Sept 9, 2020 23:36:36 GMT
Just seen this.... does the 38 and 73 really justify a cut at this moment in time with restricted passenger numbers? I'm sure they've lost a lot, but would have thought they were still busy? I've not ventured out for 6 months so can't comment from observations on the ground The 38 is the most overbussed route in the whole of London. I don't disagree it's busy but not to the extend that it needs a bus behind one another every 2 seconds. There's 100 other routes in London that are just as busy in London but don't get the help that the 38 gets. Can't comment on the 73 but greg suggests a cut wouldn't be too bad. I know we would agree to disagree but you have only seen the route at Green Park?. Try looking further North of the route around Islington and Hackney the route will be packed (both ways) and that would have been the same outcome if covid didn't happen.
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