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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 22:56:23 GMT
I would say the 18 and 29 carry much heavier loads throughout the whole route/day than the 149 Also, routes like the 18 run alone most of the route so it would not be ideal to have limited standing space Do any modern buses really have decent standing space or need it? Very rare to have standing loads on most routes IMO.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 19, 2021 23:03:15 GMT
I would say the 18 and 29 carry much heavier loads throughout the whole route/day than the 149 Also, routes like the 18 run alone most of the route so it would not be ideal to have limited standing space Do any modern buses really have decent standing space or need it? Very rare to have standing loads on most routes IMO. It's a good idea they do, the 18 and 29 are both usually rammed solid, in the peaks especially when routes are rammed solid the extra standing space is very useful and means more people can be carried.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 19, 2021 23:08:31 GMT
I would say the 18 and 29 carry much heavier loads throughout the whole route/day than the 149 Also, routes like the 18 run alone most of the route so it would not be ideal to have limited standing space I wouldn't say that's true exactly... I mean it got 13.224 million pre COVID. Ironically the 29 is less busy than the 149, it got 12.740 million pre COVID. Though what does seem rather odd is how pre cut the 140 was busier than the 29 & 149. EDIT: Don't worry - I definitely agree the 29 is incredibly busy. But to say the 149 isn't during the day is untrue
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 19, 2021 23:16:54 GMT
Not surprised TFL chose to put LTs in London's West End than the City mainly just for the tourists. I would dump the 149 LTs on West End Routes such as 14 or 29 I wouldn't say they are mainly on West End routes you have routes like the 21,67,76,EL1,ELT2 and ELT 3 for example. If anything with PVR cuts we will see more and more push out to the suburbs like the the 313 recently. No LT fan but we stuck with them for sometime. I think it's better to make economical use of them and allocate them to other routes if they become spare or using them to convert some routes to DD operation. Maybe they could fully convert the 32 given its up for renewal this year with the TEHs cascaded to the 240 which can be used on its contract until 2024 when it is retained. The remainder could either be withdrawn or moved to W.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 19, 2021 23:27:36 GMT
I would say the 18 and 29 carry much heavier loads throughout the whole route/day than the 149 Also, routes like the 18 run alone most of the route so it would not be ideal to have limited standing space Do any modern buses really have decent standing space or need it? Very rare to have standing loads on most routes IMO. I have to say it's more common on Single Decker routes than Double Deckers, certainly examples off the top of my head are the 143, 268, 316, C11 & P4 (could always count the 631 ). Even on certain double decker routes I've used before have had standing loads such as the 132 between North Greenwich & Eltham, but also the 25 & 86 which are incredibly busy routes particularly between Ilford & Stratford (which I heard was the busiest corridor in the UK).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2021 0:09:35 GMT
I would say the 18 and 29 carry much heavier loads throughout the whole route/day than the 149 Also, routes like the 18 run alone most of the route so it would not be ideal to have limited standing space Regrettably for some on here, it is very unfortunate that forum contributors will not have any say where LTs are allocated. At the beginning when open boarding existed, LTs were quite useful imo. But I don't see the purpose they have now over any other conventional vehicle. Still not sure if they'll be around for longer, especially if the 1K Electric vehicles are coming into service.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 20, 2021 0:13:37 GMT
Regrettably for some on here, it is very unfortunate that forum contributors will not have any say where LTs are allocated. At the beginning when open boarding existed, LTs were quite useful imo. But I don't see the purpose they have now over any other conventional vehicle. Still not sure if they'll be around for longer, especially if the 1K Electric vehicles are coming into service. 1000 LTs. 1000 Electric vehicles. Here comes the LT electric conversion programme! 🤣😂
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2021 0:16:49 GMT
At the beginning when open boarding existed, LTs were quite useful imo. But I don't see the purpose they have now over any other conventional vehicle. Still not sure if they'll be around for longer, especially if the 1K Electric vehicles are coming into service. 1000 LTs. 1000 Electric vehicles. Here comes the LT eldcrric conversion programme! 🤣😂 Loooool believe me if I was TFL I'd rather just upgrade the LTs to Electrics or even phase in LTs with 2 doors (SRM style). What's the chances I wonder?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 20, 2021 0:19:41 GMT
1000 LTs. 1000 Electric vehicles. Here comes the LT eldcrric conversion programme! 🤣😂 Loooool believe me if I was TFL I'd rather just upgrade the LTs to Electrics or even phase in LTs with 2 doors (SRM style). What's the chances I wonder? The issue with that is you just can't upgrade a bus if you wanted to. The technology needs to exist. I've mentioned before I believe on the electric buses thread it's in theory possible to make an LT electric but feasibility is low due to the space taken up by batteries.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2021 0:23:13 GMT
Loooool believe me if I was TFL I'd rather just upgrade the LTs to Electrics or even phase in LTs with 2 doors (SRM style). What's the chances I wonder? The issue with that is you just can't upgrade a bus if you wanted to. The technology needs to exist. I've mentioned before I believe on the electric buses thread it's in theory possible to make an LT electric but feasibility is low due to the space taken up by batteries. Yes I recall now you did mention the possibility of converting LTs to Electric. I'm wondering if the 1K Electric per year plan will go ahead and whether it'll have impact on LTs or Conventional Hybrids? I'm also not sure if we will see LT operated routes converting to Electrics.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 20, 2021 0:32:38 GMT
Loooool believe me if I was TFL I'd rather just upgrade the LTs to Electrics or even phase in LTs with 2 doors (SRM style). What's the chances I wonder? The issue with that is you just can't upgrade a bus if you wanted to. The technology needs to exist. I've mentioned before I believe on the electric buses thread it's in theory possible to make an LT electric but feasibility is low due to the space taken up by batteries. www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18292517.oxford-city-sightseeing-buses-going-electric/Former GAL PVL was converted to electric under Oxford
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 20, 2021 0:48:49 GMT
The issue with that is you just can't upgrade a bus if you wanted to. The technology needs to exist. I've mentioned before I believe on the electric buses thread it's in theory possible to make an LT electric but feasibility is low due to the space taken up by batteries. www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18292517.oxford-city-sightseeing-buses-going-electric/Former GAL PVL was converted to electric under Oxford However what is the range of such a conversion? The size of the batteries in that PVL don't particularly look huge, only taking about the same space the engine used to take up. The current BYDs which are arguably near the top of technology have batteries taking up far more space and still require charging overnight everyday. Not to mention in service buses are likely to run far more range than a sightseeing bus going around in circles in the middle of the city during daylight hours as opposed to buses running full routes from 5am to midnight.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 20, 2021 1:16:13 GMT
1000 LTs. 1000 Electric vehicles. Here comes the LT eldcrric conversion programme! 🤣😂 Loooool believe me if I was TFL I'd rather just upgrade the LTs to Electrics or even phase in LTs with 2 doors (SRM style). What's the chances I wonder? The chances are highly likely 0 - it would cost a hell of a lot to adapt a LT to electric operation when you could simply buy a brand new electric bus that's ready to go. Playing devil's advocate here but if TfL's finances were far rosier, I could of forseen a scenario where they actually just actively begin removing them similar to the removal of Artics.
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 20, 2021 1:20:43 GMT
However what is the range of such a conversion? The size of the batteries in that PVL don't particularly look huge, only taking about the same space the engine used to take up. The current BYDs which are arguably near the top of technology have batteries taking up far more space and still require charging overnight everyday. Not to mention in service buses are likely to run far more range than a sightseeing bus going around in circles in the middle of the city during daylight hours as opposed to buses running full routes from 5am to midnight. You also had the trial with converting PDL120 to an electric bus, which unfortunately only lasted three months in the end.
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Post by snowman on Feb 20, 2021 8:45:03 GMT
Loooool believe me if I was TFL I'd rather just upgrade the LTs to Electrics or even phase in LTs with 2 doors (SRM style). What's the chances I wonder? The chances are highly likely 0 - it would cost a hell of a lot to adapt a LT to electric operation when you could simply buy a brand new electric bus that's ready to go. Playing devil's advocate here but if TfL's finances were far rosier, I could of forseen a scenario where they actually just actively begin removing them similar to the removal of Artics. Agree zero chance, there is still about 2500 diesel double decks which are generally older So why would they consider changing the approx 2700 hybrids + 1000 LTs I take a slightly different view, as they are already bought and paid for, makes financial sense to use them as long as possible. My forecast is handful may be withdrawn (if damaged) in next 3 years, then possibly handful more (and disassembled for spare parts), they will fade out 2025 onwards, but I actually think about 100 may end up working out their days on school routes. There are some pending tender results which may give a clue, 148 (will it get third contract, even though buses would be over 14 years after another 7 years). The 55 result also due soon. And are the 2 delayed Cranham school results awaiting buses being released from other routes
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