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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 23:01:11 GMT
The 25 is a long route through some poor areas. People opt for the bus over the Rail/Underground on cost grounds. The population has grown with people from Eastern Europe etc
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Post by Swadbus on Nov 17, 2013 6:20:48 GMT
ATS along the vast majority of the route 25 is demand controlled via UTC (Urban Traffic Control), whilst broadly the demand is similar most of the time, phasing fluctuates according to traffic flow, time of day, planned and unplanned events and traffic management plans from knock on effects of other areas. They don't have timings as such any more. Well I can safely say that UTC at Aldgate doesn't work. I came off 21 minutes late at Aldgate the other day because the traffic lights at Leman Street and the ones releasing traffic from Mansell Street were working against each other. Queue started at those lights and ended somewhere near Monument Station for traffic heading out of town - the traffic situation around Aldgate and it's one way system is becoming predictable. I'm not taking a pop at you in my reply Swadbus mate just making an observation. But how do you know a plan wasn't in place holding traffic back at that junction to alleviate congestion away from another area such asMile End or Bow for example. Holding traffic out of an area and causing deliberate congestion elsewhere is a tactic in dealing with gridlock and congestion elsewhere. An example would be the roundabout at Trafalgar Square, traffic is held back away from the roundabout to ease congestion. It's a constant dynamic. |
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Post by greeny253 on Nov 17, 2013 10:18:31 GMT
Well I can safely say that UTC at Aldgate doesn't work. I came off 21 minutes late at Aldgate the other day because the traffic lights at Leman Street and the ones releasing traffic from Mansell Street were working against each other. Queue started at those lights and ended somewhere near Monument Station for traffic heading out of town - the traffic situation around Aldgate and it's one way system is becoming predictable. I'm not taking a pop at you in my reply Swadbus mate just making an observation. But how do you know a plan wasn't in place holding traffic back at that junction to alleviate congestion away from another area such asMile End or Bow for example. Holding traffic out of an area and causing deliberate congestion elsewhere is a tactic in dealing with gridlock and congestion elsewhere. An example would be the roundabout at Trafalgar Square, traffic is held back away from the roundabout to ease congestion. It's a constant dynamic. I don't and I completely understand your point, however this happens every day. And the problem lies entirely with the motorists on the ground in my mind. There needs to be a box junction at the top of Mansell Street and a red light camera at Tower Hill and Great Tower Street. That said, I'm fully aware that the City of London is consulting on making the Aldgate one way system 2 way so we'll see what happens. On the subject of mid-route changeovers on the 18/25 it's worth considering this - both are ex-bendy routes with (in my opinion) too many buses now they are double deck. The excessive PVR's have created the demand for the routes and what can only be described as poorly timed traffic lights at several key sections of route 25 in particular are causing reliability issues. The interesting thing is that while there were big ridership increases on the 18 and 25 post bendy bus conversion there has not been a big drop off in ridership as has happened with some other former bendy routes. It is hard to know why precisely this has happened. Clearly the good frequency will have helped and both routes have longish "freehold" sections although the 25 has had to be helped out with the 205 and 425 over some sections. I do wonder if things like population growth and the huge scale of development in and around Stratford have helped sustain the upward trend in ridership. While the other routes post bendy buses have rarely seen frequency decreases they have all seen reductions in patronage - presumably from losing the opportunistic free riders. Obviously the 73 also lost part of its route which will account for some decrease. Think you hit the nail on the head with your comments about the opportunistic free riders. Allegedly the 38 drivers were asked by passengers "if they had to pay now" when the 38 went back double deck. |
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Post by snoggle on Nov 17, 2013 19:09:38 GMT
Scandal and gossip time - on one of the garage tours at Merton Garage today someone (not me) asked if Merton were going to get any Borismasters. The engineering manager said they were not getting any as they were too far out from the centre and their main routes (44 and 77) didn't cross the centre of London (which is apparently what Boris wants!). He did say that Putney Garage were getting them for route 22 so make of that what you will  . He didn't know what would happen with the Sunday workings where Merton help out on the 22 to balance the rosters between Putney and Merton garages. |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Nov 17, 2013 19:45:00 GMT
Scandal and gossip time - on one of the garage tours at Merton Garage today someone (not me) asked if Merton were going to get any Borismasters. The engineering manager said they were not getting any as they were too far out from the centre and their main routes (44 and 77) didn't cross the centre of London (which is apparently what Boris wants!). He did say that Putney Garage were getting them for route 22 so make of that what you will . He didn't know what would happen with the Sunday workings where Merton help out on the 22 to balance the rosters between Putney and Merton garages. If 22 was to ever get NB4Ls, I can imagine the AL-Sunday allocation would maybe be withdrawn so the NB4Ls could run on Sundays. |
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Post by sw11simon on Nov 18, 2013 6:14:05 GMT
Scandal and gossip time - on one of the garage tours at Merton Garage today someone (not me) asked if Merton were going to get any Borismasters. The engineering manager said they were not getting any as they were too far out from the centre and their main routes (44 and 77) didn't cross the centre of London (which is apparently what Boris wants!). He did say that Putney Garage were getting them for route 22 so make of that what you will . He didn't know what would happen with the Sunday workings where Merton help out on the 22 to balance the rosters between Putney and Merton garages. Bear in mind that in turn, Sutton operates the 164 on Sundays, so this could also come under review. I'm not sure how necessary it really is for these allocations now - the roots of the 22 at AL on Sundays is crew operations... Putney only had enough double decks to operate the 14/74 on this day. |
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Post by M1104 on Nov 18, 2013 10:42:48 GMT
Scandal and gossip time - on one of the garage tours at Merton Garage today someone (not me) asked if Merton were going to get any Borismasters. The engineering manager said they were not getting any as they were too far out from the centre and their main routes (44 and 77) didn't cross the centre of London (which is apparently what Boris wants!). He did say that Putney Garage were getting them for route 22 so make of that what you will . He didn't know what would happen with the Sunday workings where Merton help out on the 22 to balance the rosters between Putney and Merton garages. Bear in mind that in turn, Sutton operates the 164 on Sundays, so this could also come under review. I'm not sure how necessary it really is for these allocations now - the roots of the 22 at AL on Sundays is crew operations... Putney only had enough double decks to operate the 14/74 on this day. A possible solution could be that Stockwell gain a part allocation of the 22 using any available LTs from the 11 on this day of the week. Part of the 333 can in turn be allocated to Merton so that no work is lost there and A is therefore unaffected. |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Nov 20, 2013 17:01:41 GMT
Route 16 could be converted to NB4L as the route goes in a straight line from Marble Arch and is on the blinds for route 24's LTs.
The Enviro400 Hybrids (currently on the route) could transfer onto either route 210 or 332, then the Enviro400s on that route could go to EW for route 107 and withdraw the VPLs there.
Route 47 could also be converted to NB4L but I wonder if the turn towards Friendly Street (near the Stephen Lawrence trust, between Deptford and Lewisham) will allow NB4L as that road is quite narrow.
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Post by COBO on Nov 20, 2013 18:07:39 GMT
Route 16 could be converted to NB4L as the route goes in a straight line from Marble Arch and is on the blinds for route 24's LTs. The Enviro400 Hybrids (currently on the route) could transfer onto either route 210 or 332, then the Enviro400s on that route could go to EW for route 107 and withdraw the VPLs there. Route 47 could also be converted to NB4L but I wonder if the turn towards Friendly Street (near the Stephen Lawrence trust, between Deptford and Lewisham) will allow NB4L as that road is quite narrow. Enviro400s have already been transferred from W to EW for the 107. The VPLs are at EW as refurb cover. |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on Nov 20, 2013 18:18:58 GMT
Route 16 could be converted to NB4L as the route goes in a straight line from Marble Arch and is on the blinds for route 24's LTs. The Enviro400 Hybrids (currently on the route) could transfer onto either route 210 or 332, then the Enviro400s on that route could go to EW for route 107 and withdraw the VPLs there. Route 47 could also be converted to NB4L but I wonder if the turn towards Friendly Street (near the Stephen Lawrence trust, between Deptford and Lewisham) will allow NB4L as that road is quite narrow. Enviro400s have already been transferred from W to EW for the 107. The VPLs are at EW as refurb cover.  That's strange, I was never aware that 107 was also getting Enviro400s. Seems like W are secretely transferring vehicles to EW then. I wonder what route the TEs from W have come from and what's replaced it. |
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Post by COBO on Nov 20, 2013 18:23:11 GMT
Enviro400s have already been transferred from W to EW for the 107. The VPLs are at EW as refurb cover. That's strange, I was never aware that 107 was also getting Enviro400s. Seems like W are secretely transferring vehicles to EW then. I wonder what route the TEs from W have come from and what's replaced it. The TEs have already arrived and are in service. 57reg, 08reg and 59reg TEs were transferred from W to EW to convert routes 107, 113 and 240 to TE. |
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Post by vjaska on Nov 20, 2013 18:30:51 GMT
Enviro400s have already been transferred from W to EW for the 107. The VPLs are at EW as refurb cover. That's strange, I was never aware that 107 was also getting Enviro400s. Seems like W are secretely transferring vehicles to EW then. I wonder what route the TEs from W have come from and what's replaced it. The 59 reg TE's from the 189 transferred into EW months ago when the 189 received new 13 reg TEH's. |
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Post by ilovelondonbuses on Nov 20, 2013 21:23:02 GMT
I think route 10 should be converted to NB4L as it goes to key tourist attractions like King's Cross, St. Panacras, Euston, Oxford street, Harrods, Royal Albert Hall etc.
10's SPs could be used for a existing buses tender bid for route 281 next year.
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Post by Volvo on Nov 20, 2013 21:25:36 GMT
I can believe that, with a excessive weight of 12, 650 im not surprised they are not very good on hills
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Post by COBO on Nov 20, 2013 21:42:00 GMT
I think route 10 should be converted to NB4L as it goes to key tourist attractions like King's Cross, St. Panacras, Euston, Oxford street, Harrods, Royal Albert Hall etc. 10's SPs could be used for a existing buses tender bid for route 281 next year. I'd be quite surprised if the 10 didn't get them to be honest. The entire length of the route (excluding a short section along Park Lane) is paralleled by other NB4L routes - the 9 and 390. And the 148. |
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. He didn't know what would happen with the Sunday workings where Merton help out on the 22 to balance the rosters between Putney and Merton garages.
That's strange, I was never aware that 107 was also getting Enviro400s. Seems like W are secretely transferring vehicles to EW then. I wonder what route the TEs from W have come from and what's replaced it.
