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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 24, 2016 17:44:28 GMT
I'm waiting to sample the 154 when the Northen line starts as that potentially could be busy from Morden and still busy leaving Croydon aswell throughout the night.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Oct 24, 2016 17:46:19 GMT
I'm waiting to sample the 154 when the Jubilee starts as that potentially could be busy from Morden and still busy leaving Croydon aswell throughout the night. The Jubilee Line has already started. Do you mean Northern Line? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 24, 2016 17:50:43 GMT
Yes meant Northern.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 24, 2016 22:52:52 GMT
I still am not happy that the 422 wasn't selected for Night Tube status as I believe it would do well. But to see the trunk roads of SE London have night routes from a Tube station helps get people home quicker; and south of the river that is really greatly appreciated. I may have held hostile views of these routes before the Jubilee line went 24 hours but seeing it in tandem with the N132 & N486, have to say I'm impressed. I'm very disappointed re. 422. As it stands, to get home from Central London late at night, I may as well stick to the N89. |
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Post by sid on Oct 25, 2016 12:02:41 GMT
I still am not happy that the 422 wasn't selected for Night Tube status as I believe it would do well. But to see the trunk roads of SE London have night routes from a Tube station helps get people home quicker; and south of the river that is really greatly appreciated. I may have held hostile views of these routes before the Jubilee line went 24 hours but seeing it in tandem with the N132 & N486, have to say I'm impressed. I'm very disappointed re. 422. As it stands, to get home from Central London late at night, I may as well stick to the N89. I would certainly have though a 422 night service was justified even if it was in one direction only from North Greenwich returning out of service via the A2. |
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Post by eggmiester on Nov 28, 2016 20:50:45 GMT
Decided to try out the Bexleyheath night Tube bus routes with the debut of the Jubilee line; heaven knows I wasn't going to before then! When I got to North Greenwich little after half 1 I noticed from the timetables that both routes were evenly spaced out (every 15 minutes from both services). Waited for the next bus, the 486 and had my mind set on yet another quiet night bus journey with 16 pax waiting for the bus until the stampede came...the bus was full after that dash & discharge from the Jublinee line. Passengers then began to indisrciminately alight from Charlton in small numbers; but as soon as the 486 turned onto Royal Artillery Road a masse enbark was had, but I shall save my views for a night 422 to the end. The night Tube has also unlocked passengers who wish 'to keep the party going' but distances & [taxi] costs don't always make that practical. I digress, as 8 passengers got off at Greenwich Heights to their appartments for a wee after party. After Welling I was the only person upstairs with the last 2 passengers alighting just before the town centre in Bexleyheath, and that was that. Had a relatively short wait for the N132 to come and off we went with my keen eye on every bus in the opposite direction for a guage of usage. At Bexley Village saw a N132 and my theory of an even working to Bexleyheath works true as there were 12 passengers who were still on board (didn't/couldn't see the bottom deck but there were more downstairs) so positive signs in my eyes. There were hesitant passengers who came about no doubt due to the lack of advertising on TfL's part, but the highlight of my night travels was a couple in fancy dress walking with the bus crawling near the Avery Hill campus with the woman shouting to her boyfriend "See, I ******* knew it was running!!" I and the driver was accompanied by souls from Eltham High Street onwards, 8 in total including me. Not much to report from that direction of travel really. One thing I did notice was 3 buses on the 486 and 4 on the 132; presumably due to the A2 routing which I did experience roadwaorks in on the way to North Greenwich. I do commend the even headways provided by both routes but I wonder if that's on TfL's part or Go Ahead's initiative. What's interesting from observing passenger behaviour is that with the Night Tube, passengers opt to use that service to then find familiar bus travel home. It's true when overhearing those passengers who alighted at Greenwich Heights when they said without the Night Tube + bus changes that they couldn't get home at night from central London. Very untrue with the N89 round the corner on Shooters Hill Road. Familiar buses to the Night Tube stations are also opted for; TfL made a good call with a 4bph N86 at weekends with those seats being filled to Stratford as well as buses leaving Stratford handsomely loaded. I did come across a hesitant group on the N15 after the Jubilee lined joined and they simply weren't sure of where the bus was headed; with one stating "I hope this goes to Canning Town otherwise we should've waited for the N86." I've also seen an increase in end-to-end journeys on Barking bound N238s with the horrid scenes of overcorowding gone. People oversleeping on the Jubilee line heading for the N15? Possibly so, they also koncked out on the N238 also!! I still am not happy that the 422 wasn't selected for Night Tube status as I believe it would do well. But to see the trunk roads of SE London have night routes from a Tube station helps get people home quicker; and south of the river that is really greatly appreciated. I may have held hostile views of these routes before the Jubilee line went 24 hours but seeing it in tandem with the N132 & N486, have to say I'm impressed. The PVR's are actually N132 - 4 and N486 - 3 as you noted. The 486 is shorter so only requires 3 buses on the night service. Its worthy to note that despite the day routes being High Frequency the N132 and N486 are run as low frequency routes so the drivers must run on time (i.e. no more than 2 early or 5 late). I believe the 422 was a contender for a night service but the 486 chosen because of the lower PVR = hence lower cost. The 422 still has a night service on New Years eve mind, and that utilise a PVT of 4 so a similar weekend night tube service would also require a 4 bus pvr. One strong case for the night netwrok around Bexleyheath and surrounding areas is the ever growing popularity of the N89 over the past 10 years. When I first started as a driver 11 years ago the N89 had a PVR of 6 every night, incl weekends. Over the past 10 years usage has grown and grown and reliability measures put in place over time increasing the PVR in gradual steps. About 5 years ago the Weekend service got its much needed frequency increase from x30 mins to x20 mins PVR now 6 weeknights and 10 weekends and the latest reliability measure has since seen the PVR increase further to 8 on weeknights and 13 at wekends, frequencies still x30 weeknights and x20 weekends, this was to overcome the increased demand and ever changing road conditions to further improve the routes reliability. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 7:20:25 GMT
Decided to try out the Bexleyheath night Tube bus routes with the debut of the Jubilee line; heaven knows I wasn't going to before then! When I got to North Greenwich little after half 1 I noticed from the timetables that both routes were evenly spaced out (every 15 minutes from both services). Waited for the next bus, the 486 and had my mind set on yet another quiet night bus journey with 16 pax waiting for the bus until the stampede came...the bus was full after that dash & discharge from the Jublinee line. Passengers then began to indisrciminately alight from Charlton in small numbers; but as soon as the 486 turned onto Royal Artillery Road a masse enbark was had, but I shall save my views for a night 422 to the end. The night Tube has also unlocked passengers who wish 'to keep the party going' but distances & [taxi] costs don't always make that practical. I digress, as 8 passengers got off at Greenwich Heights to their appartments for a wee after party. After Welling I was the only person upstairs with the last 2 passengers alighting just before the town centre in Bexleyheath, and that was that. Had a relatively short wait for the N132 to come and off we went with my keen eye on every bus in the opposite direction for a guage of usage. At Bexley Village saw a N132 and my theory of an even working to Bexleyheath works true as there were 12 passengers who were still on board (didn't/couldn't see the bottom deck but there were more downstairs) so positive signs in my eyes. There were hesitant passengers who came about no doubt due to the lack of advertising on TfL's part, but the highlight of my night travels was a couple in fancy dress walking with the bus crawling near the Avery Hill campus with the woman shouting to her boyfriend "See, I ******* knew it was running!!" I and the driver was accompanied by souls from Eltham High Street onwards, 8 in total including me. Not much to report from that direction of travel really. One thing I did notice was 3 buses on the 486 and 4 on the 132; presumably due to the A2 routing which I did experience roadwaorks in on the way to North Greenwich. I do commend the even headways provided by both routes but I wonder if that's on TfL's part or Go Ahead's initiative. What's interesting from observing passenger behaviour is that with the Night Tube, passengers opt to use that service to then find familiar bus travel home. It's true when overhearing those passengers who alighted at Greenwich Heights when they said without the Night Tube + bus changes that they couldn't get home at night from central London. Very untrue with the N89 round the corner on Shooters Hill Road. Familiar buses to the Night Tube stations are also opted for; TfL made a good call with a 4bph N86 at weekends with those seats being filled to Stratford as well as buses leaving Stratford handsomely loaded. I did come across a hesitant group on the N15 after the Jubilee lined joined and they simply weren't sure of where the bus was headed; with one stating "I hope this goes to Canning Town otherwise we should've waited for the N86." I've also seen an increase in end-to-end journeys on Barking bound N238s with the horrid scenes of overcorowding gone. People oversleeping on the Jubilee line heading for the N15? Possibly so, they also koncked out on the N238 also!! I still am not happy that the 422 wasn't selected for Night Tube status as I believe it would do well. But to see the trunk roads of SE London have night routes from a Tube station helps get people home quicker; and south of the river that is really greatly appreciated. I may have held hostile views of these routes before the Jubilee line went 24 hours but seeing it in tandem with the N132 & N486, have to say I'm impressed. The PVR's are actually N132 - 4 and N486 - 3 as you noted. The 486 is shorter so only requires 3 buses on the night service. Its worthy to note that despite the day routes being High Frequency the N132 and N486 are run as low frequency routes so the drivers must run on time (i.e. no more than 2 early or 5 late). I believe the 422 was a contender for a night service but the 486 chosen because of the lower PVR = hence lower cost. The 422 still has a night service on New Years eve mind, and that utilise a PVT of 4 so a similar weekend night tube service would also require a 4 bus pvr. One strong case for the night netwrok around Bexleyheath and surrounding areas is the ever growing popularity of the N89 over the past 10 years. When I first started as a driver 11 years ago the N89 had a PVR of 6 every night, incl weekends. Over the past 10 years usage has grown and grown and reliability measures put in place over time increasing the PVR in gradual steps. About 5 years ago the Weekend service got its much needed frequency increase from x30 mins to x20 mins PVR now 6 weeknights and 10 weekends and the latest reliability measure has since seen the PVR increase further to 8 on weeknights and 13 at wekends, frequencies still x30 weeknights and x20 weekends, this was to overcome the increased demand and ever changing road conditions to further improve the routes reliability. 13 buses for a 20 min frequency ? There must be some very easy shifts included there, some must be just one rounder ! |
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Post by enviroPB on Nov 29, 2016 12:11:09 GMT
One thing I did notice was 3 buses on the 486 and 4 on the 132; presumably due to the A2 routing which I did experience roadwaorks in on the way to North Greenwich. I do commend the even headways provided by both routes but I wonder if that's on TfL's part or Go Ahead's initiative. What's interesting from observing passenger behaviour is that with the Night Tube, passengers opt to use that service to then find familiar bus travel home. It's true when overhearing those passengers who alighted at Greenwich Heights when they said without the Night Tube + bus changes that they couldn't get home at night from central London. Very untrue with the N89 round the corner on Shooters Hill Road. I still am not happy that the 422 wasn't selected for Night Tube status as I believe it would do well. But to see the trunk roads of SE London have night routes from a Tube station helps get people home quicker; and south of the river that is really greatly appreciated. I may have held hostile views of these routes before the Jubilee line went 24 hours but seeing it in tandem with the N132 & N486, have to say I'm impressed. The PVR's are actually N132 - 4 and N486 - 3 as you noted. The 486 is shorter so only requires 3 buses on the night service. Its worthy to note that despite the day routes being High Frequency the N132 and N486 are run as low frequency routes so the drivers must run on time (i.e. no more than 2 early or 5 late). I believe the 422 was a contender for a night service but the 486 chosen because of the lower PVR = hence lower cost. The 422 still has a night service on New Years eve mind, and that utilise a PVT of 4 so a similar weekend night tube service would also require a 4 bus pvr. One strong case for the night netwrok around Bexleyheath and surrounding areas is the ever growing popularity of the N89 over the past 10 years. When I first started as a driver 11 years ago the N89 had a PVR of 6 every night, incl weekends. Over the past 10 years usage has grown and grown and reliability measures put in place over time increasing the PVR in gradual steps. About 5 years ago the Weekend service got its much needed frequency increase from x30 mins to x20 mins PVR now 6 weeknights and 10 weekends and the latest reliability measure has since seen the PVR increase further to 8 on weeknights and 13 at wekends, frequencies still x30 weeknights and x20 weekends, this was to overcome the increased demand and ever changing road conditions to further improve the routes reliability. Do forgive me for looking into 'the grey area' after the information you provided. If the N89 has received unprecedented success in the past decade; and the 422 was indeed considered but the 486 was chosen...the instinct to me is that TfL wanted to add more buses to the Welling/Bexleyheath corridor without chucking more & more resources on the N89. It would make sense to mitigate one route's success by adding another route to parallel/mirror a significant section. The only night routes I can think of doing that was the N50 split into N550 & N551. A PVR of 6 on the N50 turned into a joint PVR of 11 of the DLR night routes and capacity is almost always hit at Trafalgar Square at weekends. I also hesitate to say this but the N15 & 238 is a more similar case to what you cited with the N89. Though that mile plus between Newham Town Hall & Barking isn't that much of a relief for the N15; it does help give early workers options [to Stratford] instead of being funnelled onto the N15, which I still get astonished by the fact the route often leaves Barking town centre absolutely packed at around half 3 onwards. EDIT: A case right under my nose was the 47/N199 changes. Though I always view the change as a much needed extra night route in Shoreditch to south-east London; the N47 I'm sure will have seen unprecedented success similar to the N89. What TfL have done though with the early finishes for the N199; is to establish that most of the worker demand is from Bromely/Downham/Bellingham northwards while [weekend] demand needs relieving on the central corridors. I assume surburban demand (past Bromley Common is my reckoning) onwards on the old N47 remained the same. It's an interesting case as the 47, the reliever route; is already jampacked leaving Shoreditch and little room left for extra passengers. I digress; but the 24-hour 47 would most likely see any advance in bph while a lengthy 20-odd mile route N199 would want to be preserrved in the current route structure it's in, should demand grow exponentially. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 8, 2016 20:45:23 GMT
A small update from the latest Commissioner's Report.
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Post by lonmark on Dec 8, 2016 21:33:25 GMT
EDIT: A case right under my nose was the 47/N199 changes. Though I always view the change as a much needed extra night route in Shoreditch to south-east London; the N47 I'm sure will have seen unprecedented success similar to the N89. What TfL have done though with the early finishes for the N199; is to establish that most of the worker demand is from Bromely/Downham/Bellingham northwards while [weekend] demand needs relieving on the central corridors. I assume surburban demand (past Bromley Common is my reckoning) onwards on the old N47 remained the same. It's an interesting case as the 47, the reliever route; is already jampacked leaving Shoreditch and little room left for extra passengers. I digress; but the 24-hour 47 would most likely see any advance in bph while a lengthy 20-odd mile route N199 would want to be preserrved in the current route structure it's in, should demand grow exponentially. I am very annoy with TfL for poor timetable with N199/208 first, when Bank holiday come soon enough on Monday so Sunday service on route 208 don't start until about 6am but last night N199 have gone by 4am so you get two hours no service between Orpington and Downham on Bank holiday monday which is bad! I think N199 is so wrong with the timetable. I never see busy on N199 anymore! |
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Post by eggmiester on Dec 9, 2016 1:41:50 GMT
The PVR's are actually N132 - 4 and N486 - 3 as you noted. The 486 is shorter so only requires 3 buses on the night service. Its worthy to note that despite the day routes being High Frequency the N132 and N486 are run as low frequency routes so the drivers must run on time (i.e. no more than 2 early or 5 late). I believe the 422 was a contender for a night service but the 486 chosen because of the lower PVR = hence lower cost. The 422 still has a night service on New Years eve mind, and that utilise a PVT of 4 so a similar weekend night tube service would also require a 4 bus pvr. One strong case for the night netwrok around Bexleyheath and surrounding areas is the ever growing popularity of the N89 over the past 10 years. When I first started as a driver 11 years ago the N89 had a PVR of 6 every night, incl weekends. Over the past 10 years usage has grown and grown and reliability measures put in place over time increasing the PVR in gradual steps. About 5 years ago the Weekend service got its much needed frequency increase from x30 mins to x20 mins PVR now 6 weeknights and 10 weekends and the latest reliability measure has since seen the PVR increase further to 8 on weeknights and 13 at wekends, frequencies still x30 weeknights and x20 weekends, this was to overcome the increased demand and ever changing road conditions to further improve the routes reliability. 13 buses for a 20 min frequency ? There must be some very easy shifts included there, some must be just one rounder ! Granted there are some short duties but most of the adjustments were made to overcome potential drivers hours issues as the running times had been redistributed to cope with the changing road conditions and introduction of 20 mph zones which were starting to affect the routes reliability. There's a couple of weekend duties that are effectively straight through duties with a drivers hours break on the stand, a short paid break incorporated into the duty but is not classed as a meal relief due to the break being on a live stand. Not forgetting that most of the N89 night duties do day work on the 422 and 401 on their first spells. Therefore there are actually only a couple of 'fully night bus' duties. |
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 18, 2016 13:29:30 GMT
I apologise I haven't kept you guys updated but it's more a case of nothing to report with my recent rides. Doing route 307 is actually not as glamorous as I thought it to be. [And this is the opportunity the Night Tube has given me], I haven't riden most of the Night Tube buses either fully or at all in some cases. Doing the 307 with a driver that drove buses as a job* and 2 other passengers who were both shift workers; it's going to take some convincing of the local residents of leafy Barnet/Enfield to use the 307. There is literally no other comment I can add to my observations as they're practically nil.
Route 34 however, that is a corker of a route. I've taken it from Whetsone back to east London late at night pre Night Tube, so am familiar with the route. It is hard to eastablish with orbital routes such as these; whether any strong, collerative pattern emerges (for eg, night routes leaving central London are generally busier than those coming in). I've been fiddling with north London at night thanks to the 34 and 123; and those 2 routes do pick up passengers indiscrimanately. But both are well past the 17 passenger average, so am still holding out for better things/patronage in the coming months. The only critique t them not carrying more is the high bph corridors the 34 has north of Whetstone & south of Crooked Billet; and Gants Hill-Ilford & Lordship Lane for the 123.
Night bus patronage in general, has been a statistican's dream by evenly spreading out demand. So that means for example an N26 being half-full before Walthamstow, but loading close to capacity at the Central bound for Chingford. Buses are now only at the will of bunching because of road traffic and not people traffic. The N15 is quite amusing to observe for bunching before Canning Town; cause I now know it's not the mob that's slowing the route down, but Aldgate gyratory, CSH changes at Tower Hill, and an occasional road closure in central London throwing a spanner in the works.
That's pretty much it from me for the year. 2017 promises for me to go west; and crack out all routes including the E7, H37, 114 & 183. I think I'm going to leave the 319 last and then revisit the 154. I'm sure it's doing swimmingly; for when I rode it in November last year and buses were actually fulll with no Night Tube around; well, that's what's given me this crusade to see if all Night Tube routes are actually worthy of them all being 24/7.
*I tried to ask the 307 driver bout the associated Night Tube changes, what he thought etc; but he completely ignored me. I then was cruelly reminded that some people do a job for the sake of doing a job; not because they love what they're doing. Defo a highlight for a bad experience bus-riding wise for me, which explains why I've taken nearly a month to post about the 307, but oh well.
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Dec 23, 2016 20:39:26 GMT
That's pretty much it from me for the year. 2017 promises for me to go west; and crack out all routes including the E7, H37, 114 & 183. I think I'm going to leave the 319 last and then revisit the 154. Hey enviroPB, just a little heads-up that it's E1 not E7 that has the weekend service ;-) Also, there is H32 that did start running but everyone seem to have forgotten about, last I've checked there weren't even updated tiles |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 8:59:27 GMT
I sampled the H32 & H37 last night along with a general ride around West London.
I was interested to note that the Piccadilly Line train I boarded at Heathrow at 0315 was quieter by the time we reached Hyde Park Corner, than the arriving N9's and 10's from Hammersmith. The N97 was very quiet though. I don't think that route will survive in its current form.
But a more general point, it got me wondering, whether at night, are regular punters sticking with their night buses ? Certainly looked that way, maybe people feel safer on the streets at 3am rather than down a tunnel. I couldn't help but think of the American Werewolf in London film as I boarded the escalators at Hyde Park Corner at 0400 with nobody else at all in the station.
The H32 is going down very well indeed. The 0200 departure from AV had almost 30 people aboard by Vicarage Farm Rd ( may have been higher had the roads not been closed off at Hounslow West due to an illegal rave) . And the 0230 departure from Southall had 8 people boarding at the first stop. There was as many rats running around the bins here in Southall. Never seen rats quite so accustomed to feeding in public.
The H37 also had its punters , with a decent load on the 0155 arrival from Richmond and a handful of people heading the other way.
The N9 seems almost as busy as it always has. Maybe slightly less so during the early part of the night heading into London though.
The N207's looked busy still leaving Ealing bound for Southall and I think justifying still the high frequency on that stretch never mind the Central Line service. I didn't see it from Shepherds Bush though.
Favourite bus ride of the night, had to be SP13 hammering along the A4 on diversion, we also traversed Convent Way Estate rather quickly as well. Good driver, who was helpful to those who needed it, and firm to the drunks who were holding the bus up at Hounslow,
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Post by enviroPB on Feb 13, 2017 14:31:12 GMT
Right, my Night Tube bus route list gets shorter & shorter. Cracked out the 114 at 01:10 last weekend from Ruislip and it just about managed to hit the average passenger number to make the service viable; 16 passengers including a disabled passgener along Victoria Road. That in my eyes makes the service justifiable, but whispers of creating a nighly N114 with it extended to Uxbridge from Ruislip would be very popular indeed. I digress. Boarding before Harrow was light and sporadic, the bus arrived at Queensbury station at the same time as a westbound Jubilee line train pulled in, but this was made up for in Burnt Oak station when 7 passengers boarded briefly before alighting. Should there be a nightly N114 then pasengers would be savvy to stay on till Mill Hill Broadway for the hourly Thameslink train during the night; but for now, only the bus enthusiast knows!  The weekend just gone, I went for the H routes as a compramise of not finishing the west London routes due to time constraints. I was hoping to take a crack at the E1 but the N207 (to Hayes) picked up too many people boarding at Sheperd's Bush meant that getting the E1 simply couldn't be done. So onto Southall for the H32 and barely a minute after 03:00, at King Street the 4 passengers that joined me on the bus swiftly alighted. Convent Way estate looked very eary with the light snowfall & mist, and no-one being on the roads lool. After Hounslow West, the H32 was simply a feeder route into Hounslow town centre; possibly a feeder for the N9 at AV as that's where the route cuts its frequency in half. I can't know for sure as I got off at the penultimate stop for ASDA  ...I mean the H37!! Waited inside the store due to the snow but at 03:39, off we went to Richmond. One person each boarded at Hounslow bus station, Isleworth station & St Margarets with 2 disembarkments at St Margarets & Richmond station. That's it, nothing more to report. At 03:59, I got off at Manor Circus to head back home. As it's 6 months after the introduction of the Night Tube this weekend, I ask for your help dear friends. Help in generating a picutre of the night bus network after the effects of the Night Tube. Yes I'm sure some routes have seen some drastic drop in usage, but routes like the N8 actually haven't seen that many numbers drop on its Hainult service. But I'd like to come to a collective evaluation with other opinions/observations from you guys if that's possible. Anyways just the 319 and E1 left to ride; and if I'm not a total grumpy-guts, I'll actually hop on the neglected W7 & 183 routes (dunno why, they just don't take my fancy lool). |
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...I mean the H37!! Waited inside the store due to the snow but at 03:39, off we went to Richmond. One person each boarded at Hounslow bus station, Isleworth station & St Margarets with 2 disembarkments at St Margarets & Richmond station. That's it, nothing more to report. At 03:59, I got off at Manor Circus to head back home.