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Post by YY13VKP on Sept 27, 2014 21:36:53 GMT
Extend the 197 and 194 to South Croydon Bus Garage! I always see buses running empty after finishing on the 197 heading to TC for i think refuelling. And i think this is the same case with the 194
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Post by Unorm on Sept 27, 2014 21:52:27 GMT
Arriva to win P4 and extend it to N (it's not logical to send it to BN, you have a lot of routes) or at least a garage-run, and/or frequency increase and converted to 10.8m buses, with 133's PVR increased by 4, 415 withdrawn. Solved. Also gives New links beyond Brixton but the route would be toying with A205.
So I take it back and no change to routeing. But to increase PVR and convert to 10.8m buses (as redundant E200s from 372 were 10.8m)
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Post by Unorm on Sept 27, 2014 21:54:12 GMT
Extend the 197 and 194 to South Croydon Bus Garage! I always see buses running empty after finishing on the 197 heading to TC for i think refuelling. And i think this is the same case with the 194 Wouldn't this make 312 pointless except for the 312 going via Addiscombe (or whereever it was back when Spring Lane was open)? That would make 312 look like 197A  . Good thinking though  |
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Post by YY13VKP on Sept 27, 2014 22:03:58 GMT
Extend the 197 and 194 to South Croydon Bus Garage! I always see buses running empty after finishing on the 197 heading to TC for i think refuelling. And i think this is the same case with the 194 Wouldn't this make 312 pointless except for the 312 going via Addiscombe (or whereever it was back when Spring Lane was open)? That would make 312 look like 197A . Good thinking though Thanks! You're actually quite right about that, the 197 runs alongside the 312 even in Norwood |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 27, 2014 23:20:24 GMT
Extend the 197 and 194 to South Croydon Bus Garage! I always see buses running empty after finishing on the 197 heading to TC for i think refuelling. And i think this is the same case with the 194 Wouldn't this make 312 pointless except for the 312 going via Addiscombe (or whereever it was back when Spring Lane was open)? That would make 312 look like 197A . Good thinking though A way to solve this is to merge the 312 & 412 together so it's runs from Norwood Junction to Purley via the 312 to South Croydon and then the 412 to Purley. That would allow the 197 to be extended to South Croydon Garage. Diverting the 194 to South Croydon Garage puts pressure on the East Croydon routes that run to West Croydon Bus Station so would prefer that to remain as it is. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 27, 2014 23:24:08 GMT
Arriva to win P4 and extend it to N (it's not logical to send it to BN, you have a lot of routes) or at least a garage-run, and/or frequency increase and converted to 10.8m buses, with 133's PVR increased by 4, 415 withdrawn. Solved. Also gives New links beyond Brixton but the route would be toying with A205. So I take it back and no change to routeing. But to increase PVR and convert to 10.8m buses (as redundant E200s from 372 were 10.8m) It would make the P4 much longer and cause it to gain unreliability if extended to Norwood (but you took it back so it's all good lol). The P4 is most likely going to receive more existing 10.8m Enviro 200's once they become available - I believe the 488 will be lost in a few months? |
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 27, 2014 23:34:20 GMT
There is already a First route (9) from Brentwood to Basildon, and although it doesn't quite go the same way as rockorange's route, it seems good enough. The 498 isn't a particularly long route, but I don't really see anywhere to extend it that wouldn't already be covered well by other services, apart from maybe a short extension to the leisure centre in Doddinghurst Road, Brentwood. Even then, I think the case is marginal at best. More pertinently it is not really TfL's job to run bus services in Essex. It mopped up the consequences of mass withdrawal of Thamesway and Arriva routes that formerly crossed the boundary before TfL tightened up emission controls and decided it didn't like London Local Service Agreements where travelcards and bus passes were valid on non TfL routes. Oyster has clearly made things more difficult as machines outside London can't read them. That's the only reason why we have the 370, 372, 375 and 498 routes limping to or across the Gtr London boundary. Where things will get a tiny bit more interesting is when TfL take over the Shenfield line under Crossrail operation from May 2015 and whether that changes the expectations about where TfL tickets work in Brentwood and if there should be a TfL bus to Shenfield. I can't see First Essex or Ensign being very happy about that sort of prospect as there is clearly a level of peak demand to link from housing areas to Shenfield and Brentwood Stations. Nonetheless there is still the fundamental problem of money and I can't see TfL spending any spare bus budget on extending th 498 further into Essex. While I agree (again) with everything here, my thought of the leisure centre wasn't entirely without thought : it is a magnet for much of the area, including across into Greater London. Would also argue, re. the 370 and 372, that connecting Greater London residents to Lakeside is another decent reason why those routes have been subsumed into the TfL empire. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 27, 2014 23:43:28 GMT
My fantasy idea would be to scrap all routes in zone1 in 2018. That is when the full Thameslink service comes on stream and the Paddington - Abbey Wood part of crossrail opens. I dont mean get rid of altogether, but would start from a clean sheet of paper and create replacement routes consistent with 2020s traffic objectives not old historic routes I get what you mean. However, I think a number of routes would probably be OK left alone : particularly routes like the 11, 15, routes terminating at Victoria that then head broadly southwards and many of the routes that head broadly north west out of Central London : things like 13, 16, 113. Some others too. |
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Post by Unorm on Sept 28, 2014 23:04:18 GMT
I guess my fantasy dream of N2 going to Anerley is part crushed thanks to GAL winning 432. But it's still not over though. N133 extended to Morden via 118 N44 extended to Belmont via 280 A new route, CP to E&C via Kingswood Drive, Gipsy Hill Circus, Hamilton Road, Tritton Road, Rosendale Road, Milkwood Road, then via P5, Loughborough Road then via 133/415 to E&C. Operated by N or SW with Optare Solo 7.8m buses, frequency every 30 minutes everyday
Notice, this was my first 433 southern-leg plans |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 28, 2014 23:50:11 GMT
My fantasy idea would be to scrap all routes in zone1 in 2018. That is when the full Thameslink service comes on stream and the Paddington - Abbey Wood part of crossrail opens. I dont mean get rid of altogether, but would start from a clean sheet of paper and create replacement routes consistent with 2020s traffic objectives not old historic routes How many bus services in Central London were ever killed off by the coming of the Tube? Not many given how intensive and long lasting some routes have been. I think the people who believe that Crossrail is somehow the saviour of Oxford St and the surrounding area in terms of banishing buses are deluding themselves. Who is going to take 5-10 minutes to drag themselves down to the Crossrail platforms at TCR to wait up to 10 minutes for a train and then travel for 2 mins and then take another 10 minutes to reach the street at Bond Street and then walk another 2 minutes to reach Oxford St? And all for nearly twice the bus fare? The other factor is that Crossrail is triggering a massive development boom at the eastern end of Oxford Street which will simply increase demand on all forms of public transport. Couple that with Crossrail being "full" or, at the least, extremely busy then there will be a proportion of people who will prefer to use a bus. If incomes don't recover then there will still be a big demand for bus services to and across the centre because some people cannot afford to use rail in, to or across Zone 1. This is precisely what Sir Peter Hendy was arguing last week when he wanted more money to make fares affordable *and* to add much more bus capacity. The final "killer" is that TfL are on record as really not wanting to go back to the days of massive area changes to bus routes because they cause so much confusion and are considered passenger unfriendly. I have my own strong bias against those who want Oxford St to be pedestrianised so I come to this with my own baggage. I don't think a review would come up with anything very magical or different to what we have today. Travel patterns are well established for a reason. There are some missing links in Zone 1 and it would be helpful to have those filled but I am not going to hold my breath. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 0:42:44 GMT
The problem with reviewing routes individually as TfL seem to be doing, is they miss out on opportunities to provide new , what I would call "radical" links, the likes that the 148,205,324 have provided. It is very frustrating that we as enthusiasts , drivers etc can provide a list of potential improvements , which will never actually happen. Yet many of these suggestions all have merit. It makes me wonder sometimes whether London would have faired better if it had been deregulated. We all rely on one government funded body to give us these links. Well the funding is running dry, so perhaps it's time to let some commercial services in and see what happens.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 29, 2014 1:40:39 GMT
I guess my fantasy dream of N2 going to Anerley is part crushed thanks to GAL winning 432. But it's still not over though. N133 extended to Morden via 118 N44 extended to Belmont via 280 A new route, CP to E&C via Kingswood Drive, Gipsy Hill Circus, Hamilton Road, Tritton Road, Rosendale Road, Milkwood Road, then via P5, Loughborough Road then via 133/415 to E&C. Operated by N or SW with Optare Solo 7.8m buses, frequency every 30 minutes everyday
Notice, this was my first 433 southern-leg plans Neither Go-Ahead or Arriva would order Solos and nor would you need a 7.8m vehicle when 8.8m or 9.3m vehicles can be used instead. I can see the merits of operating along Rosendale Road but any residents near Hamilton Road would get the nearby 322 to Palace instead as it's quicker. A good link for Crystal Palace would be to extend the 432 at both ends - from Anerley to Elmers End for connection to Tramlink and to provide a far quicker and direct route between Crystal Palace & Elmers End and from Brixton to Surrey Canal via the 415 and 415's proposed extension to Surrey Canal. The 415 can then be withdrawn. |
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Post by Unorm on Sept 29, 2014 7:18:39 GMT
I guess my fantasy dream of N2 going to Anerley is part crushed thanks to GAL winning 432. But it's still not over though. N133 extended to Morden via 118 N44 extended to Belmont via 280 A new route, CP to E&C via Kingswood Drive, Gipsy Hill Circus, Hamilton Road, Tritton Road, Rosendale Road, Milkwood Road, then via P5, Loughborough Road then via 133/415 to E&C. Operated by N or SW with Optare Solo 7.8m buses, frequency every 30 minutes everyday
Notice, this was my first 433 southern-leg plans Neither Go-Ahead or Arriva would order Solos and nor would you need a 7.8m vehicle when 8.8m or 9.3m vehicles can be used instead. I can see the merits of operating along Rosendale Road but any residents near Hamilton Road would get the nearby 322 to Palace instead as it's quicker. A good link for Crystal Palace would be to extend the 432 at both ends - from Anerley to Elmers End for connection to Tramlink and to provide a far quicker and direct route between Crystal Palace & Elmers End and from Brixton to Surrey Canal via the 415 and 415's proposed extension to Surrey Canal. The 415 can then be withdrawn. The route was actually supposed to be for residents around Herne Hill to E&C, and I know people would take the 322, as this is infrequent. I would have rather diverted this to serve South Croxted Road but thought the route to have harder turns because it's gonna (in fantasy) use 7.8m buses lol. And also for the route to be a quicker choice than 3 or 322, hence why it would go via Rosendale Road (and is a quiet road). Then again this routr would make buses serve unserved roads (possibly ever before) such as Rosendale Road (well, I got that idea when 3 was diverted due to Croxted Road works) and Milkwood Road. This would also create a second option than P5. I saw from the many stops I have observed around Loughborough Junction. Personally, I'd keep 432 as it is. And 432 extended to Vauxhall to even out the 2 and create extra stand space at Brixton. I would extend 415 to Surrey Canal, like you said there. The 432's extension to Vauxhall would help off a lot of the 2's crowd. I noticed the route (2) gets pretty crowded. With 88 helping off to Vauxhall from Stockwell yes I know that. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 8:00:26 GMT
Give the 80 a extension down to Reigate, extra bus and additional 25 minutes on the timetable. I'd also like to see a route between Croydon and Orpington.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 9:17:50 GMT
Give the 80 a extension down to Reigate, extra bus and additional 25 minutes on the timetable. I'd also like to see a route between Croydon and Orpington. The Croydon to Orpington route would be great for tthose areas. |
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