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Post by Steve80 on Sept 4, 2014 4:58:36 GMT
If we are all driving into the the world of fantasy, why don't we let TFL takeover Green Line Coaches routes and let is go on our oyster to Legoland? ;-) but on a serious note would a TFL takeover of the commuter coach service be a good idea? I think I'd argue not because it would lead to inefficiencies. Much of the commuter coach trade is balanced by the coaches doing tours and hire contract work between the peaks. Costs would inevitably go up and I'm not sure whether TfL can legitimatly operate express coaches because it's state funded and the market is fully open to competition. It also has a limit on the geographic scope of its operation and commuter coaches are nearly always from places outside London into the City and Westminster / Victoria. The Green Lines to Windsor and Bracknell and the 757 to Luton Airport are perhaps honourable exceptions with two way flows. Well, for others who might be running out of ideas of where to introduce or extend routes then take a look at the link from the Evening Standard... www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-might-have-to-be-expanded-to-swallow-up-commuter-belt-towns-such-as-epsom-spelthorne-and-three-rivers-9707887.htmlIt says that the population of London is growing so fast that town centres outside the London boundary may be taken over and transformed into London boroughs. This would mean TFL taking over transport in places like Epsom, Potters Bar or even Brentwood. So, if this really was to happen and TFL was to take over the routes currently outside the London boroughs then I'm sure routes like the 466 would be extended to Caterham Station with major changes to the 409, or maybe some of the other routes in Epsom being extended to maybe Leatherhead. |
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Post by ServerKing on Sept 4, 2014 5:32:28 GMT
Aren't TFL buses in service not allowed on motorways? I don't know any route that goes on a motorway Would be a good first! Would love to see Snoggle get a good pic of a VLA thrashed along the M25 the fans won't last long... we would have to use Borehamwood's DWs instead. But I'm sure the X25 would be a good circular route. They have to put the fuel pumps in at HE first, sending drivers into the local Tesco next to Sky in Isleworth to refill the DWs will be too time consuming. X25 from Streatham via West Croydon, Redhill, Reigate, Chertsey, Twickenham, Richmond, Brentford, Ealing Broadway, Acton, Harlesden, Cricklewood, Watford, St Albans, Hatfield, Potters Bar, Enfield Chase, Ponders End, Brimsdown, Walthamstow, Ilford, Barking, Dagenham, Romford, Harold Hill, Lakeside, Bluewater, Crayford, Woolwich, Blackheath and Lewisham Bus Station. PVR of just 150 refurbished DWs and DLPs from Heathrow and Enfield garage. It would avoid the worst bits of the M25, but there's plenty of country lane thrash  |
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 4, 2014 9:09:25 GMT
I think I'd argue not because it would lead to inefficiencies. Much of the commuter coach trade is balanced by the coaches doing tours and hire contract work between the peaks. Costs would inevitably go up and I'm not sure whether TfL can legitimatly operate express coaches because it's state funded and the market is fully open to competition. It also has a limit on the geographic scope of its operation and commuter coaches are nearly always from places outside London into the City and Westminster / Victoria. The Green Lines to Windsor and Bracknell and the 757 to Luton Airport are perhaps honourable exceptions with two way flows. Well, for others who might be running out of ideas of where to introduce or extend routes then take a look at the link from the Evening Standard... www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-might-have-to-be-expanded-to-swallow-up-commuter-belt-towns-such-as-epsom-spelthorne-and-three-rivers-9707887.htmlIt says that the population of London is growing so fast that town centres outside the London boundary may be taken over and transformed into London boroughs. This would mean TFL taking over transport in places like Epsom, Potters Bar or even Brentwood. So, if this really was to happen and TFL was to take over the routes currently outside the London boroughs then I'm sure routes like the 466 would be extended to Caterham Station with major changes to the 409, or maybe some of the other routes in Epsom being extended to maybe Leatherhead. Good luck with that...resistance is likely to be met from every one of the council areas bordering London. One London borough, certainly judging by my experiences, seems to have a majority of residents that would rather be in a shire county rather than within Greater London. Who'd like to guess where that is?... |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 4, 2014 9:20:05 GMT
Good luck with that...resistance is likely to be met from every one of the council areas bordering London. One London borough, certainly judging by my experiences, seems to have a majority of residents that would rather be in a shire county rather than within Greater London. Who'd like to guess where that is?... Let's see - Bexley, Havering, Bromley, Hillingdon, Kingston, bits of Croydon, bits of Barnet, the taxi drivers republic of Chingford?   |
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Post by Green Kitten on Sept 4, 2014 9:52:15 GMT
I think I'd argue not because it would lead to inefficiencies. Much of the commuter coach trade is balanced by the coaches doing tours and hire contract work between the peaks. Costs would inevitably go up and I'm not sure whether TfL can legitimatly operate express coaches because it's state funded and the market is fully open to competition. It also has a limit on the geographic scope of its operation and commuter coaches are nearly always from places outside London into the City and Westminster / Victoria. The Green Lines to Windsor and Bracknell and the 757 to Luton Airport are perhaps honourable exceptions with two way flows. Well, for others who might be running out of ideas of where to introduce or extend routes then take a look at the link from the Evening Standard... www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-might-have-to-be-expanded-to-swallow-up-commuter-belt-towns-such-as-epsom-spelthorne-and-three-rivers-9707887.htmlIt says that the population of London is growing so fast that town centres outside the London boundary may be taken over and transformed into London boroughs. This would mean TFL taking over transport in places like Epsom, Potters Bar or even Brentwood. So, if this really was to happen and TFL was to take over the routes currently outside the London boroughs then I'm sure routes like the 466 would be extended to Caterham Station with major changes to the 409, or maybe some of the other routes in Epsom being extended to maybe Leatherhead. How I would love that !! Doubt the council would agree, though - Heck, they don't even want London-style bus stops in their territory! |
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Post by twobellstogo on Sept 4, 2014 19:49:28 GMT
Good luck with that...resistance is likely to be met from every one of the council areas bordering London. One London borough, certainly judging by my experiences, seems to have a majority of residents that would rather be in a shire county rather than within Greater London. Who'd like to guess where that is?... Let's see - Bexley, Havering, Bromley, Hillingdon, Kingston, bits of Croydon, bits of Barnet, the taxi drivers republic of Chingford? Was thinking of Bromley : well done Bexley is interesting, to me it seems the further north and west you go, the more affinity there is with London as opposed to Kent. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2014 21:58:15 GMT
Bromley is a very bizarre place. Parts of this borough are exactly like parts of Croydon & Lewisham ( ie Mottingham, Penge)
The affluent areas in the middle are Kent wannabes and the southern pieces around Biggin Hill & Cudham actually should be in either Kent or Surrey. Orpington & The Crays are similar to Medway / Swanley.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 4, 2014 22:12:56 GMT
Bromley is a very bizarre place. Parts of this borough are exactly like parts of Croydon & Lewisham ( ie Mottingham, Penge) The affluent areas in the middle are Kent wannabes and the southern pieces around Biggin Hill & Cudham actually should be in either Kent or Surrey. Orpington & The Crays are similar to Medway / Swanley. I bet Dulwich Village would like to be part of Kent lol |
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Post by snoggle on Sept 4, 2014 22:23:25 GMT
Bromley is a very bizarre place. Parts of this borough are exactly like parts of Croydon & Lewisham ( ie Mottingham, Penge) The affluent areas in the middle are Kent wannabes and the southern pieces around Biggin Hill & Cudham actually should be in either Kent or Surrey. Orpington & The Crays are similar to Medway / Swanley. I bet Dulwich Village would like to be part of Kent lol No, no daarliiing - Dulwich Village wants to be part of South Kensington and Mayfair.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 6:48:07 GMT
Aren't TFL buses in service not allowed on motorways? I don't know any route that goes on a motorway The x26 has been diverted before via the M25 and the light running from MB to Swanley is via M25 plus the 132 goes on the A102M. A102M doesn't exist now, it was re numbered A102 upon transfer of control of the road from the Highways Agency to the then newly created TfL in 2000 |
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Post by towerman on Sept 5, 2014 13:16:40 GMT
Yeah Chingford people always say their address is Chingford Essex not London E4.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Sept 5, 2014 17:28:42 GMT
I have a VERY long list of various different extensions, some of which would involve integrating routes and using numbers on new routes. Long story short- I want to recreate the very long routes of the '30s-mid '60s, such as the 4 extended to Canada Water, 72 from Acton to Tolworth, and a 'new' 82 running between Limehouse and Surrey Quays (would be very frequent 4-5 mins with around 20 Solo slimlines). Alternatively, or concurently, I would extend all night routes to their day equivalents.
My more 'crazy' ideas include:
Route 9 from Heathrow Terminal 5 to Rainham, Abbey Wood Lane
Route 15 from Richmond to Romford Market
Route 69 from Walthamstow Central to Victoria via Canning Town and a new river crossing in the North Woolwich area to cross south of the river, Grove Park, Lewisham, Camberwell, Vauxhall and Victoria
Route 98 from Hounslow to Holborn via Hayes and Willesden
Route 232 from Hounslow to Turnpike Lane via Southall, Hanger Lane and St Raphael's
And for some of our more beloved routes:
34 extended diverted at Crooked Billet to Stratford
42 extended to Finsbury Park via Shoreditch
62 extended from Marks Gate to Ilford
177 extended to Elephant & Castle via 136 and on to Embankment
And finally one idea which is serious and should be implemented in the real world:
Withdraw the 'glorified' route 369 and agree on a routing to serve both Barking Reach and Dagenham Dock! I hate the routes for two reasons:
1) there is no equivalent in SW London
2) If it was a proper 'transit' system then at the very least used guided buses. Using bog-standard B9TLs with a little bit of orange tinsel is just pointless!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
I have a VERY long list of various different extensions, some of which would involve integrating routes and using numbers on new routes. Long story short- I want to recreate the very long routes of the '30s-mid '60s, such as the 4 extended to Canada Water, 72 from Acton to Tolworth, and a 'new' 82 running between Limehouse and Surrey Quays (would be very frequent 4-5 mins with around 20 Solo slimlines). Alternatively, or concurently, I would extend all night routes to their day equivalents. My more 'crazy' ideas include: Route 9 from Heathrow Terminal 5 to Rainham, Abbey Wood Lane Route 15 from Richmond to Romford Market Route 69 from Walthamstow Central to Victoria via Canning Town and a new river crossing in the North Woolwich area to cross south of the river, Grove Park, Lewisham, Camberwell, Vauxhall and Victoria Route 98 from Hounslow to Holborn via Hayes and Willesden Route 232 from Hounslow to Turnpike Lane via Southall, Hanger Lane and St Raphael's And for some of our more beloved routes: 34 extended diverted at Crooked Billet to Stratford 42 extended to Finsbury Park via Shoreditch 62 extended from Marks Gate to Ilford 177 extended to Elephant & Castle via 136 and on to Embankment And finally one idea which is serious and should be implemented in the real world: Withdraw the 'glorified' route 369 and agree on a routing to serve both Barking Reach and Dagenham Dock! I hate the routes for two reasons: 1) there is no equivalent in SW London 2) If it was a proper 'transit' system then at the very least used guided buses. Using bog-standard B9TLs with a little bit of orange tinsel is just pointless! The 369 has been gone for about 4 years now. |
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Post by routew15 on Sept 5, 2014 22:24:09 GMT
Aren't TFL buses in service not allowed on motorways? I don't know any route that goes on a motorway Would be a good first! Would love to see Snoggle get a good pic of a VLA thrashed along the M25 Pedantic fact: the A10 serves the M4 Spur motorway the only TfL bus route to serve an M road in service. |
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Post by routew15 on Sept 5, 2014 22:38:41 GMT
Extend the 215 during the summer extension to Waltham Cross Bus Station via Sewardstone, Waltham Abbey & Eleanor Cross Road (if length is an issue, it can miss out Waltham Abbey via Meridan Way). The reason why I've suggested this is the Lea Valley Campsite brings buses from Harlow, Chingford & Walthamstow but not Waltham Cross which is the nearest town to the north west - anyone in this direction it seems would have to travel into London and then get the tube to Walthamstow and then a 215 to reach the campsite. I've no idea how loadings are, whether there would be any patronage along my suggested route or even if the extension would work outside the seasonal period that the 215 serves the campsite but I'm sure someone will tell me if it's viable or not lol. This is like one of the best idea on this thread (in my opinion ) I think the extension would not need to be a seasonal one it could easily operate all year and just miss out the campsite in the summer. The camper would be able to access the site from Waltham Cross Station or Waltham Cross High Street with the 215. The direction the 215 comes into Waltham across is also way different to the other TfL routes. I know the 505 was mentioned but like it was mentioned this route goes to Chingford Station not Chingford Mount or Waltham Cross, it doesn't serve the campsite bus stop as well so camper would need to walk from Sewardstone Road. |
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