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Post by Madstuntman on Oct 8, 2010 18:45:36 GMT
I'm sure members of the team are in it for the racing but the management/owners are only interested in the money. They want to sell fizzy drinks. Unlike the management at McLaren... ect I'm sure you are all going to explain why I am wrong but that's how I feel. As you say I clearly know nothing so I'll let you educate me. How about saying something like "Well madstuntman I disagree with you because..." or "have you thought about this..." Rather than something rude like : I don't think that would haved been unsresonable and would have most likely led to an adult discussion on the matter. Rather than the implication of "I'm better than you" When I have a discussion on things I am open to other people thoughts I'm not insisting what I say it right I'm saying it's what I think. Lets discuss? Enjoying a sport and knowing everything there is to know about it are 2 seperate things. I never said I know a lot. So I'll leave it up to you should we have an adult discussion and an exchange of thoughts? Let me know. If you're not interested then I'll f**k off back to the top of the forum and talk about buses. But did i say you clearly no nothing? I clearly said Red Bull are in it for racing friendly, hence the wink at the end Anyway lets not attempt to turn this into a argument  Indeed you did not. That part of my reply was not aimed at you personally. I apologise for the confusion. I understood your comment as it was intended my friend. |
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Post by Trident on Oct 8, 2010 19:29:13 GMT
But did i say you clearly no nothing? I clearly said Red Bull are in it for racing friendly, hence the wink at the end Anyway lets not attempt to turn this into a argument Indeed you did not. That part of my reply was not aimed at you personally. I apologise for the confusion. I understood your comment as it was intended my friend. Thats fine |
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Post by Trident on Oct 9, 2010 7:06:06 GMT
Qualifying postponed until tommorow morning (2am UK time) due to heavy rain
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Post by ajw on Oct 9, 2010 9:03:25 GMT
I don't think that would haved been unsresonable and would have most likely led to an adult discussion on the matter. Rather than the implication of "I'm better than you" When I have a discussion on things I am open to other people thoughts I'm not insisting what I say it right I'm saying it's what I think. Lets discuss? Enjoying a sport and knowing everything there is to know about it are 2 seperate things. I never said I know a lot. So I'll leave it up to you should we have an adult discussion and an exchange of thoughts? Let me know. If you're not interested then I'll f**k off back to the top of the forum and talk about buses. Grow up for gords sake. You made one of the dumbest comments I have ever read, so gave back in kind. You clearly do not understanding the history or current make up of the team, nor it seem any other team. As others have pointed out the origins of the Red Bull team lay with Jackie Stewart. So yeah maybe not quite the pedigree of other teams, but clearly the racing pedigree is in the blood of the team. Red Bull's second team Toro Rosso also has a strong racing pedigree, in fact probably more than the main Red Bull team. It's history can be traced back to the Minardi racing team formed in the late 70's (they didn't race F1 until a bit later) Now then to go on to say that the Red Bull team is there to sell fizzy drinks is just bizarre beyond comprehension. All teams are there to market the products they sponsor. McLaren sponsor Vodafone, so much so that Vodafone forms part of the team's name. The Mercedes team is sponsored the Petronas oil company which again forms part of their team. Ferrari is still sponsored by a cigarette company, one of their brands (Marlbro) forms part of the team's official title. The only difference with Red Bull is the team is owned by the company and not simply sponsored by the company. The team is run from god old Blighty as a totaly seperate part of Red Bull. Bottom line is all the teams are there to race, which isn't possible unless they expose their sponsors products to the market. Anything that brings money into the sport has to be a positive, because without it there is no motor sport. As to personal opinion we are all entitled to hold our own opinions for what ever reason we like. My opinion is F1 is one of the most contrived motor sports around too many rules and regulations rather than just getting racing. But as a motor sport fan I respect what it does for the motor industry as a whole so still follow it. However my idea of racing can be found this weekend in Australian in the city of Bathurst. A 1000km fight between driver and car. However if you come onto a public DISCUSSION board expressing your personal views on something then I don't think it is unreasonable for these views to be debated or attacked, more so if you then use an explanation that is flawed, ill informed or incorrect. Here I refer to your first statement saying Red Bull has "No history no passion no link to the motor industry nothing.". This is clearly wrong, ill informed drivel. |
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Post by Madstuntman on Oct 9, 2010 11:31:10 GMT
I don't think that would haved been unsresonable and would have most likely led to an adult discussion on the matter. Rather than the implication of "I'm better than you" When I have a discussion on things I am open to other people thoughts I'm not insisting what I say it right I'm saying it's what I think. Lets discuss? Enjoying a sport and knowing everything there is to know about it are 2 seperate things. I never said I know a lot. So I'll leave it up to you should we have an adult discussion and an exchange of thoughts? Let me know. If you're not interested then I'll f**k off back to the top of the forum and talk about buses. Grow up for gords sake. You made one of the dumbest comments I have ever read, so gave back in kind. You clearly do not understanding the history or current make up of the team, nor it seem any other team. As others have pointed out the origins of the Red Bull team lay with Jackie Stewart. So yeah maybe not quite the pedigree of other teams, but clearly the racing pedigree is in the blood of the team. Red Bull's second team Toro Rosso also has a strong racing pedigree, in fact probably more than the main Red Bull team. It's history can be traced back to the Minardi racing team formed in the late 70's (they didn't race F1 until a bit later) Now then to go on to say that the Red Bull team is there to sell fizzy drinks is just bizarre beyond comprehension. All teams are there to market the products they sponsor. McLaren sponsor Vodafone, so much so that Vodafone forms part of the team's name. The Mercedes team is sponsored the Petronas oil company which again forms part of their team. Ferrari is still sponsored by a cigarette company, one of their brands (Marlbro) forms part of the team's official title. The only difference with Red Bull is the team is owned by the company and not simply sponsored by the company. The team is run from god old Blighty as a totaly seperate part of Red Bull. Bottom line is all the teams are there to race, which isn't possible unless they expose their sponsors products to the market. Anything that brings money into the sport has to be a positive, because without it there is no motor sport. As to personal opinion we are all entitled to hold our own opinions for what ever reason we like. My opinion is F1 is one of the most contrived motor sports around too many rules and regulations rather than just getting racing. But as a motor sport fan I respect what it does for the motor industry as a whole so still follow it. However my idea of racing can be found this weekend in Australian in the city of Bathurst. A 1000km fight between driver and car. However if you come onto a public DISCUSSION board expressing your personal views on something then I don't think it is unreasonable for these views to be debated or attacked, more so if you then use an explanation that is flawed, ill informed or incorrect. Here I refer to your first statement saying Red Bull has "No history no passion no link to the motor industry nothing.". This is clearly wrong, ill informed drivel. First of all cut the insults there is no need. I noticed you didn't quote the first part of my message so I'll do it I'm sure members of the team are in it for the racing but the management/owners are only interested in the money. They want to sell fizzy drinks. Unlike the management at McLaren... ect I was not talking about previous incarnations of the team. You use my comment about no history and links to motoring. What links do RED BULL have then? and when i ask that i mean RED BULL the fizzy drink company. Explain to me the history behind RED BULL and F1. Is it more than people in suits somewhere thinking "Lets buy an F1 team because that'll be great to promote the brand" ? As I said I'm happy to debate things but your first message did no such thing. You have made no attempt to do so, you've just said I'm right you are wrong. It was just rude. And when I try to clarify things and say don't be rude to me lets discuss this your response is to be rude some more!! In life if someone is wrong about something is the way to go about this just to say "you are wrong shut up" or do you try and educate them? If your child came up to you with incorrect homework would you just say "this is all wrong thicko"? If I'm ill informed then inform me don't just insult me. So far you've called me dumb, told me to grow up and told me I know nothing about F1. I've not been rude to you I've asked you to debate things with me and as I've pointed out all you do is be hostile towards me. |
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Post by Trident on Oct 9, 2010 16:25:22 GMT
Lewis Hamilton is taking a 5 place grid penalty where ever he qualifies due to a gearbox change
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Post by ajw on Oct 9, 2010 17:19:27 GMT
First of all cut the insults there is no need. What insult? Saying you have no idea about motorsport isn't an insult. It is a fact, especially after you said that Red Bull was a team with "No history no passion no link to the motor industry nothing." I reckon the likes of Christian Horner and the crew would be horrified to hear what you said about them. Indeed that is an insult of the highest order. Hope you are going to apologise to them publicly. I noticed you didn't quote the first part of my message so I'll do it I'm sure members of the team are in it for the racing but the management/owners are only interested in the money. They want to sell fizzy drinks. Unlike the management at McLaren... ect No they, including McLaren are ALL in it for the money. Though if you do some research of one of the co-owners you will find that motor sports and flying are two of his many hobby's, so guess laying big bikkies sponsoring motorsport is his way of putting back in. Not a bad thing I would say. I was not talking about previous incarnations of the team. You use my comment about no history and links to motoring. What links do RED BULL have then? and when i ask that i mean RED BULL the fizzy drink company. Explain to me the history behind RED BULL and F1. Explain the link between Vodafone and motorsport? No different to Red Bull really. Is it more than people in suits somewhere thinking "Lets buy an F1 team because that'll be great to promote the brand" ? As I said I'm happy to debate things but your first message did no such thing. You have made no attempt to do so, you've just said I'm right you are wrong. It was just rude. And when I try to clarify things and say don't be rude to me lets discuss this your response is to be rude some more!! In life if someone is wrong about something is the way to go about this just to say "you are wrong shut up" or do you try and educate them? If your child came up to you with incorrect homework would you just say "this is all wrong thicko"? If I'm ill informed then inform me don't just insult me. So far you've called me dumb, told me to grow up and told me I know nothing about F1. I've not been rude to you I've asked you to debate things with me and as I've pointed out all you do is be hostile towards me. This is a discussion board if you say something (especially something stupid) expect it to be discussed and AT NO POINT HAVE I BEEN HOSTILE. |
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Post by Madstuntman on Oct 9, 2010 18:34:21 GMT
I'm having difficulty "quoting" things you have said in the last message ajw for some reason when I click quote it buggers up the layout of it and misses things out so I'll just cat and paste things without the usual "quote" layout. I think it;s having trouble with all the quotes within quotes.
I said:
First of all cut the insults there is no need.
You replied:
What insult? Saying you have no idea about motorsport isn't an insult. It is a fact, especially after you said that Red Bull was a team with "No history no passion no link to the motor industry nothing." I reckon the likes of Christian Horner and the crew would be horrified to hear what you said about them. Indeed that is an insult of the highest order. Hope you are going to apologies to them publicly.
My response:
Again you've only quoted bits of what i wrote leaving other information out. I also said...
If I'm ill informed then inform me don't just insult me. So far you've called me dumb, told me to grow up
I consider them insults. You and I are strangers remember and how would you feel if when talking in a pub i came up to you and called you dumb?
I think Christian Horner has bigger things to worry about. I don't think he'll lose much sleep over the thoughts of a bloke who drives buses. Again you've only taken part of what I said (but then used it on a different point) because I also said...
I'm sure members of the team are in it for the racing but the management/owners are only interested in the money. They want to sell fizzy drinks. Unlike the management at McLaren... ect
In that particular point you ignored my recognition of the divide between team members and management/owners.
Next point.
I said:
I'm sure members of the team are in it for the racing but the management/owners are only interested in the money. They want to sell fizzy drinks. Unlike the management at McLaren... ect
You said:
No they, including McLaren are ALL in it for the money. Though if you do some research of one of the co-owners you will find that motor sports and flying are two of his many hobby's, so guess laying big bikkies sponsoring motorsport is his way of putting back in. Not a bad thing I would say.
My response:
Ok fair enough it is about the money but what I was trying to get at and maybe I've not worded things very well. is McLaren has for a very long time been a racing team/company and have been in the game since before it was the big money business it is now. Yes I'm sure they are all enjoying the benefits of their success with the flying but I don't feel like red bull as a company/team owners are like that. It's like saying Arriva care about the bloke standing in the rain at Gravesend station waiting for a 480... they don't, they care about the £4 in his pocket for a return ticket to Dartford!!
I've only used Mclaren as an example in the first place. I have no special feelings about the team.
I do understand the history of the men and women that worked for Jaguar and Stewart ect. But I don't feel that same passion is there with the people writing the cheques at red bull.
Next point:
I said:
Explain to me the history behind RED BULL and F1
You said:
Explain the link between Vodafone and motorsport? No different to Red Bull really.
My response:
I hate to be picky but red bull are team owners. Vodafone are sponsers... Big sponsors I know but not team owners. So yes different to red bull really.
Last point:
I said:
Is it more than people in suits somewhere thinking "Lets buy an F1 team because that'll be great to promote the brand" ?
As I said I'm happy to debate things but your first message did no such thing. You have made no attempt to do so, you've just said I'm right you are wrong. It was just rude. And when I try to clarify things and say don't be rude to me lets discuss this your response is to be rude some more!!
In life if someone is wrong about something is the way to go about this just to say "you are wrong shut up" or do you try and educate them? If your child came up to you with incorrect homework would you just say "this is all wrong thicko"?
If I'm ill informed then inform me don't just insult me. So far you've called me dumb, told me to grow up and told me I know nothing about F1. I've not been rude to you I've asked you to debate things with me and as I've pointed out all you do is be hostile towards me.
You said:
This is a discussion board if you say something (especially something stupid) expect it to be discussed and AT NO POINT HAVE I BEEN HOSTILE.
My response:
This time you call me stupid (please see aforementioned comments about insults) and you even bother to SHOUT the last bit about not being hostile. You even used the word attacked in a previous post. "views to be debated or attacked" Attack is quite a hostile word wouldn't you say?
I felt that your attitude has been very aggressive and unforgiving. I'm sorry if I've misunderstood your intentions but I've already explained why I've been annoyed by things you've said.
As I said debate things with me don't just sit there saying you are wrong I am right now shut up.
Just chill out a bit!!
Does any of this help smooth things?
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Post by RM5chris on Oct 9, 2010 18:57:40 GMT
This is a discussion board if you say something (especially something stupid) expect it to be discussed and AT NO POINT HAVE I BEEN HOSTILE. I think with this sentence you are demonstrating totally the opposite. Seems very much out of order IMO. |
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Post by ajw on Oct 9, 2010 19:56:04 GMT
I'm sure members of the team are in it for the racing but the management/owners are only interested in the money. They want to sell fizzy drinks. Unlike the management at McLaren... ect Christian Horner IS Red Bull management. Do you know his history? Clearly not. |
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Post by ajw on Oct 9, 2010 20:00:28 GMT
This is a discussion board if you say something (especially something stupid) expect it to be discussed and AT NO POINT HAVE I BEEN HOSTILE. I think with this sentence you are demonstrating totally the opposite. Seems very much out of order IMO. Hostile means : pertaining to, or characteristic of an enemy: a hostile nation. I don't consider Madstuntman to be an enemy in any way shape or form. My comments on this board have been lively and directed, but far from HOSTILE. |
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Post by Madstuntman on Oct 9, 2010 20:38:54 GMT
I'm sure members of the team are in it for the racing but the management/owners are only interested in the money. They want to sell fizzy drinks. Unlike the management at McLaren... ect Christian Horner IS Red Bull management. Do you know his history? Clearly not. I think we both know I'm really talking about the blokes in suits as I have mentioned several times. Again you've only referenced bits of what I said rather than the whole thing. I don't really know the history of Horner and to be honest I'm losing the will to live. I'm going to watch the race tomorrow and enjoy it the same as always. I have my view no matter how ill informed or stupid you think it is. I've learned my lesson and that lesson is to never air your view because it may be wrong and that will not be permitted. Your most recent reply was a fair question... Until you added the words "clearly not" to the end then it just comes across in text as rude. I can't help but wonder if you take this attitude toward people you meet in life or is it just when hiding behind a computer? If a complete stranger spoke to me like that in real life they'd probably just get told to pee off. Sometimes when's just pure text things can be mis understood due to lack of tone of voice and emotion so I give the benefit of the doubt but you insist on being rude. You strongly dispute the word hostile so I'll just call you rude. Would that be more accurate? |
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Post by greeny253 on Oct 9, 2010 21:14:25 GMT
Now now gentleman please play nicely. I've had a look back over the posts (and even had this thread flagged up for review!) and it appears to have gotten out of hand. Please keep any further argument on the matter to PM's Ta  |
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Post by lc1 on Oct 10, 2010 0:32:34 GMT
Just noticed this thread and I will echo what Greeny has said above. Now on the Subject, always been a fan of McLaren even when I worked for Damon Hill's Solicitor (and yes I did meet him...Hill that is) Watched on and off for years (used to prefer the BTCC back in the days of Murray on the BBC) never seem to get the time to watch many races these days, but normally wack them on repeat via BBC red button. I'm more a Motor Sport fan than a full on F1 fan, I'll watch everything from BTCC to Superbikes. Even had the pleasure (a few years ago now) of taking a IIRC Formula Ford round Brands Hatch Indy circuit, and managed to clip the kerb at Paddock and even done some overtaking of my own ;D I suppose growing up I was more a bike fan what with Barry Sheene winning everything (when he wasn't crashing) and then Foggy blowing the competition out of sight on Superbikes...would have loved to see him move over to Motor GP (or just plain 500cc as it was then) and take on Doohan and later the Doctor. Although I can of cause remember sitting there in shock after Senna's crash, as paul said it was just something people of my generation wasn't used to and I think people lost out on a real treat in what would have been great battles between him and Schumi  Now days I watch what I can, must admit I do like the NASCAR & Indy series' (although haven't watched any this year  ) and as said try to watch F1 via the red button and a few times been lucky enough to be on break at work to watch the Motor GP. |
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Post by john on Oct 10, 2010 0:39:57 GMT
Now now gentleman please play nicely. I've had a look back over the posts (and even had this thread flagged up for review!) and it appears to have gotten out of hand. Please keep any further argument on the matter to PM's Ta Very well said monseuir. Although, I must admit that this entire conversation has helped me develop a plan for a meeting at uni about the financial implications on F1, so I must thank you for that ;D Madstuntman, don't stop airing your views mate, the way you word your posts ALWAYS bring a smile to my face ;D |
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) and as said try to watch F1 via the red button and a few times been lucky enough to be on break at work to watch the Motor GP.