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Post by sid on Jun 7, 2019 13:58:15 GMT
Different people will have different opinions on Mr Khan, I hear plenty of criticism of him in the media about crime, housing and various other things but very little about bus provision. Obviously on a bus forum cuts in services are going to be a cause for concern but in the outside world it seems few people are too fussed about it. I can only see a fares I increase putting more people off bus travel. The thing with fare increases is, if say 10% of passengers stopped using the buses because fares went up 25%, that is still and increase of revenue for TfL ... and increased revenue is what TfL needs ... at the moment it is falling passenger numbers and falling revenue. Why not falling passenger numbers and increased revenue ... and some of those 10% will return, so even bigger increase in revenue. If 90% pay 125% of the fare that is an increase in revenue of 12.5% And yes there are more important things for the mayor than public transport, but it is a major responsibility of his and as you said this is a bus forum. Surely a 10% drop in passenger numbers would mean more cuts in services even if it does bring in more revenue? |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 7, 2019 14:02:29 GMT
The thing with fare increases is, if say 10% of passengers stopped using the buses because fares went up 25%, that is still and increase of revenue for TfL ... and increased revenue is what TfL needs ... at the moment it is falling passenger numbers and falling revenue. Why not falling passenger numbers and increased revenue ... and some of those 10% will return, so even bigger increase in revenue. If 90% pay 125% of the fare that is an increase in revenue of 12.5% And yes there are more important things for the mayor than public transport, but it is a major responsibility of his and as you said this is a bus forum. Surely a 10% drop in passenger numbers would mean more cuts in services even if it does bring in more revenue? No decrease in revenue means more cuts ... increasing revenue, do not need to make cuts as you have more money coming in! |
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Post by sid on Jun 7, 2019 14:16:59 GMT
Surely a 10% drop in passenger numbers would mean more cuts in services even if it does bring in more revenue? No decrease in revenue means more cuts ... increasing revenue, do not need to make cuts as you have more money coming in! Cuts will be made because of falling patronage, a double whammy of more cuts and a fares increase. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 7, 2019 14:26:04 GMT
Can we leave politics alone now and move on plesse? Though I agree with you, it's a political decision in many ways which is why inevitably, it will always get caught up in the issue. |
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Post by sid on Jun 7, 2019 14:32:17 GMT
Sorry to all but I think most are making a big deal about these bus cuts from next Saturday. I know lot of routes being cut but it is going to be better in the long term. Think, you have the tube and rail mostly every where in London. I am not a fan of Khan but I support him with the central london bus changes. So what will you come up with when it is running smoothly? I don't think the cuts happening a week tomorrow are too unreasonable in fact I can't understand why the 19 was reprieved. The 22 is adequate at the Kings Road end and several people have mentioned the 38 being over bussed. I think the 4 will be missed during peak hours at Waterloo and I would think there is a case for peak hour short workings on the 76 in part replacement. I also think that the 171 should still go to Holborn during peak hours but it isn't needed off peak. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 7, 2019 14:36:34 GMT
Sorry to all but I think most are making a big deal about these bus cuts from next Saturday. I know lot of routes being cut but it is going to be better in the long term. Think, you have the tube and rail mostly every where in London. I am not a fan of Khan but I support him with the central london bus changes. So what will you come up with when it is running smoothly? In the nicest way possible, are you, outside of your job, affected by the cuts? Can you afford to take other forms of more expensive transport? These are genuine questions so I can understand your view better even if I disagree with it. I'm a low paid worker, who while thankfully, lives right by my job, still relies on the bus to get around for sorts of things. There is no rail link between Brixton & Streatham nor a direct one between Brixton & Wandsworth, two places I regularly visit and I could not afford to make either journey regularly without there being buses so if we're going to continue with cuts, we are going to continue to alienate the poor, elderly & vulnerable from the network - that concerns me greatly particularly as I'm in one such group so all I ask is not to flatly agree me with but understand where I'm coming from. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 7, 2019 14:38:50 GMT
Sorry to all but I think most are making a big deal about these bus cuts from next Saturday. I know lot of routes being cut but it is going to be better in the long term. Think, you have the tube and rail mostly every where in London. I am not a fan of Khan but I support him with the central london bus changes. So what will you come up with when it is running smoothly? I don't think the cuts happening a week tomorrow are too unreasonable in fact I can't understand why the 19 was reprieved. The 22 is adequate at the Kings Road end and several people have mentioned the 38 being over bussed. I think the 4 will be missed during peak hours at Waterloo and I would think there is a case for peak hour short workings on the 76 in part replacement. I also think that the 171 should still go to Holborn during peak hours but it isn't needed off peak. The 19 was reprieved because the King's Road lobby are powerful, let us not forget they had the power to force a u-turn on a Crossrail 2 station on the King's Road. I agree with you that the 171 should still go to Holborn at peaks, I've seen 171's full before crossing Waterloo Bridge at peak hours but off peak I see 171's empty north of the Thames. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 7, 2019 14:49:09 GMT
Sorry to all but I think most are making a big deal about these bus cuts from next Saturday. I know lot of routes being cut but it is going to be better in the long term. Think, you have the tube and rail mostly every where in London. I am not a fan of Khan but I support him with the central london bus changes. So what will you come up with when it is running smoothly? 'Better in the long term,' so you really think that it'll be better in the long term for people who will lose direct connections which they rely on and often have no alternatives to. The tube doesn't reach every part of Lodnon and many will have no alternative when the cuts go ahead. Buses appeal to people because they provide a convinient direct link however many links will be lost as a result of the Central London changes. Some of the cuts show a complete lack of understanding of commuter patterns. From TFL's point of view it'll be better in the long term because they'll be loosing less money but as a consequence of TFL's cuts come thousands of disgruntled commuters who no longer have convinient direct links and many will lose faith in the bus network because changing buses does not appeal to many. When it is all running smoothly I will say that the set of changes were an absoloute disaster. People rely on buses and these changes are despicable. Any resillience in the bus network is being cut, some surplus capacity is necesarry. I will look back on these changes as another round in TFL's butchering of well used connections. There are some bus routes for which I think a cut is justified but TFL keep tampering with well used links and driving people away from the bus network causing them to turn to other modes of transport, namely Uber. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2019 14:59:11 GMT
Sorry to all but I think most are making a big deal about these bus cuts from next Saturday. I know lot of routes being cut but it is going to be better in the long term. Think, you have the tube and rail mostly every where in London. I am not a fan of Khan but I support him with the central london bus changes. So what will you come up with when it is running smoothly? In the nicest way possible, are you, outside of your job, affected by the cuts? Can you afford to take other forms of more expensive transport? These are genuine questions so I can understand your view better even if I disagree with it. I'm a low paid worker, who while thankfully, lives right by my job, still relies on the bus to get around for sorts of things. There is no rail link between Brixton & Streatham nor a direct one between Brixton & Wandsworth, two places I regularly visit and I could not afford to make either journey regularly without there being buses so if we're going to continue with cuts, we are going to continue to alienate the poor, elderly & vulnerable from the network - that concerns me greatly particularly as I'm in one such group so all I ask is not to flatly agree me with but understand where I'm coming from. I commute to and from work with the tube when on middle afternoon shifts, I end up taking Night buses when on early mornings or late nights as the tube finishes except for weekends. I have free travel as other bus drivers do so I can't comment of affordability sorry |
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Post by lundnah on Jun 7, 2019 15:24:34 GMT
The PermBusChanges webpage has been updated and now only includes bus route changes over the last four months, rather than dozens of separate changes stretching back well over a year. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 7, 2019 15:29:05 GMT
The frequency increase on the 432 is a welcome surprise. A frequency cut to the 12 was inevitable, high frequencies like the 12's are hard to justify with falling bus usage but I for one disagree with them. I would like to see some buses turned short at Peckham however because I do think the 12's frequency is a little excessive on the final leg of the route but for the rest of the route I believe the current frequency is fine. I wonder what will happen with the surplus LTs, moved to the 176 perhaps?
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Post by sid on Jun 7, 2019 15:50:51 GMT
The frequency increase on the 432 is a welcome surprise. A frequency cut to the 12 was inevitable, high frequencies like the 12's are hard to justify with falling bus usage but I for one disagree with them. I would like to see some buses turned short at Peckham however because I do think the 12's frequency is a little excessive on the final leg of the route but for the rest of the route I believe the current frequency is fine. I wonder what will happen with the surplus LTs, moved to the 176 perhaps? I'm really quite shocked about the frequency reduction on the 12, plus of course the 53 being withdrawn from Whitehall is likely to increase its workload. There is plenty of scope for making the same savings elsewhere, why the 12 which generally still seems quite busy apart from the Dulwich section which is over bussed. I would imagine surplus LTs will go onto the 176? The 432 increase is a bit of a surprise although the Anerley bit is a waste of resources. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 7, 2019 15:59:34 GMT
I didn't realise the 432 had dropped to 5pph. Thou originally it was every 8 mins (old 2 freq maintained). I wonder why the increase as bar off peak the 432 isn't rammed (neither the 2 now it has the 415 support).
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Post by busaholic on Jun 7, 2019 16:13:53 GMT
I didn't realise the 432 had dropped to 5pph. Thou originally it was every 8 mins (old 2 freq maintained). I wonder why the increase as bar off peak the 432 isn't rammed (neither the 2 now it has the 415 support). The decrease from 6 to 5 bph on the 432 preceded almost any other pvr cuts. I wondered at the time whether it was a harbinger, and, retrospectively, it certainly was! |
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Post by rhys on Jun 7, 2019 16:14:11 GMT
I didn't realise the 432 had dropped to 5pph. Thou originally it was every 8 mins (old 2 freq maintained). I wonder why the increase as bar off peak the 432 isn't rammed (neither the 2 now it has the 415 support). Interestingly, the 432s frequency was decreased just last week, with its temporary timetable during the Norwood Road roadworks. |
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