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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 18, 2023 16:22:37 GMT
But how though when the 36 and 185 also connect south east London to Victoria in a far quicker way than the 436 would. I think M1004 specifically meant Victoria Coach Station which is a bit of a trek from Victoria Bus Station. It’s a five minute walk, hardly a trek. I’ve done it hundreds of times. |
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Post by danorak on Oct 19, 2023 12:54:55 GMT
One to take to the ideas thread but I wonder if a partial merger of the rerouted 211 and inner 436 might work, say Fulham Broadway to Peckham via Battersea Power Station, with the 11 continuing to Hammersmith and other services tweaked to pick up the slack beyond Peckham.
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Post by greenboy on Oct 19, 2023 13:45:24 GMT
One to take to the ideas thread but I wonder if a partial merger of the rerouted 211 and inner 436 might work, say Fulham Broadway to Peckham via Battersea Power Station, with the 11 continuing to Hammersmith and other services tweaked to pick up the slack beyond Peckham. I think that's a good call, the 11 could be extended back to Hammersmith and the 436 maybe Fulham Broadway to New Cross and the 36 extended back to Lewisham if the Queens Park section is replaced by something else? |
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Post by portman227 on Oct 19, 2023 15:22:34 GMT
Improvements: Route 14 increased from every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes on Friday and Saturday nights Frequency cuts: Routes 430 & 436 reduced from 6bph to 5bph Route N38 reduced from every 10 minutes to every 15 minutes. Every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes between Piccadilly Circus and Victoria How many buses would the 436 lose as a result of its PVR decrease? |
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Post by DE20106 on Oct 19, 2023 15:47:40 GMT
Improvements: Route 14 increased from every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes on Friday and Saturday nights Frequency cuts: Routes 430 & 436 reduced from 6bph to 5bph Route N38 reduced from every 10 minutes to every 15 minutes. Every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes between Piccadilly Circus and Victoria How many buses would the 436 lose as a result of its PVR decrease? Its PVR will be 13, down from 17. The PVR cut coincides with its contract renewal It’s allocation *should* then be EH162-70 and MHV86-90 (once the 321 gets its EVs) |
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Post by Frenzie on Oct 19, 2023 18:26:05 GMT
Improvements: Route 14 increased from every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes on Friday and Saturday nights Frequency cuts: Routes 430 & 436 reduced from 6bph to 5bph Route N38 reduced from every 10 minutes to every 15 minutes. Every 20 minutes to every 30 minutes between Piccadilly Circus and Victoria TfL will do everything but reinstate the N9's former frequency to every 20 mins during weekends. I can actually see the N27 being extended to Hounslow bus station in a year or two because they're stubbornly steadfast on the N9 being having this criminal 30 minute frequency. In my opinion we don’t need it at every 20 minutes on the weekend. Loadings are actually quieter because of the Night Piccadilly Line. The frequency on weeknights needs to go back up to every 20 minutes. On certain duties we’re having to leaving behind passengers between Hounslow West and Heathrow as the bus is packed. The 3:00 am departure from Aldwych is the worst for this. I think I had to leave behind around 15 people when I did that duty. These are people who need to use this service to get to work. It’s a disgrace. I hope when Metroline take over TfL will see sense and increase the frequency. Madness that the N87 is 4bph yet has 200,000 fewer passengers a year compared to the N9. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 19, 2023 19:25:35 GMT
TfL will do everything but reinstate the N9's former frequency to every 20 mins during weekends. I can actually see the N27 being extended to Hounslow bus station in a year or two because they're stubbornly steadfast on the N9 being having this criminal 30 minute frequency. In my opinion we don’t need it at every 20 minutes on the weekend. Loadings are actually quieter because of the Night Piccadilly Line. The frequency on weeknights needs to go back up to every 20 minutes. On certain duties we’re having to leaving behind passengers between Hounslow West and Heathrow as the bus is packed. The 3:00 am departure from Aldwych is the worst for this. I think I had to leave behind around 15 people when I did that duty. These are people who need to use this service to get to work. It’s a disgrace. I hope when Metroline take over TfL will see sense and increase the frequency. Madness that the N87 is 4bph yet has 200,000 fewer passengers a year compared to the N9. Very useful information. Interesting that it is the Heathrow workers at the western end of the route that suffering. Heathrow Airport has had a good summer in terms of passenger numbers and this is probably reflected in the numbers of employees onsite. Are people left behind leaving Central London? |
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Post by Frenzie on Oct 19, 2023 20:09:12 GMT
In my opinion we don’t need it at every 20 minutes on the weekend. Loadings are actually quieter because of the Night Piccadilly Line. The frequency on weeknights needs to go back up to every 20 minutes. On certain duties we’re having to leaving behind passengers between Hounslow West and Heathrow as the bus is packed. The 3:00 am departure from Aldwych is the worst for this. I think I had to leave behind around 15 people when I did that duty. These are people who need to use this service to get to work. It’s a disgrace. I hope when Metroline take over TfL will see sense and increase the frequency. Madness that the N87 is 4bph yet has 200,000 fewer passengers a year compared to the N9. Very useful information. Interesting that it is the Heathrow workers at the western end of the route that suffering. Heathrow Airport has had a good summer in terms of passenger numbers and this is probably reflected in the numbers of employees onsite. Are people left behind leaving Central London? The only time I’ve had to leave people behind in central London is when the Piccadilly line night service was down. I had a full bus at Green Park and probably left around 40 people between Hyde Park Corner and Stamford Brook where I came off for break. The biggest issue is that buses are consistently carrying 70+ people. This means if your leader goes mechanical or has an issue we dont have the capacity to pick up both their passengers and our own. 30 minutes is a long time to wait for the next bus and I imagine its put off a number of people from using the service. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 19, 2023 20:34:31 GMT
Very useful information. Interesting that it is the Heathrow workers at the western end of the route that suffering. Heathrow Airport has had a good summer in terms of passenger numbers and this is probably reflected in the numbers of employees onsite. Are people left behind leaving Central London? The only time I’ve had to leave people behind in central London is when the Piccadilly line night service was down. I had a full bus at Green Park and probably left around 40 people between Hyde Park Corner and Stamford Brook where I came off for break. The biggest issue is that buses are consistently carrying 70+ people. This means if your leader goes mechanical or has an issue we dont have the capacity to pick up both their passengers and our own. 30 minutes is a long time to wait for the next bus and I imagine its put off a number of people from using the service. Thanks. Do most people get off the N9 at Heathrow Central or is there a decent load continuing on to Terminal 5? I also wonder whether it would be worth changing the 222 night service to N222 and incorporating a double run to Heathrow Central. I know TfL would probably hate the idea but it doesn’t make sense for the route to sail past the main traffic destination in the area when there must be plenty of demand from West Drayton and Uxbridge at that time of night to/from Heathrow. It would also double the frequency of buses between Hounslow and Heathrow Central from 2ph to 4ph. Even if it only required one extra bus on the PVR it would probably break even. |
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Post by Frenzie on Oct 19, 2023 23:17:38 GMT
The only time I’ve had to leave people behind in central London is when the Piccadilly line night service was down. I had a full bus at Green Park and probably left around 40 people between Hyde Park Corner and Stamford Brook where I came off for break. The biggest issue is that buses are consistently carrying 70+ people. This means if your leader goes mechanical or has an issue we dont have the capacity to pick up both their passengers and our own. 30 minutes is a long time to wait for the next bus and I imagine its put off a number of people from using the service. Thanks. Do most people get off the N9 at Heathrow Central or is there a decent load continuing on to Terminal 5? I also wonder whether it would be worth changing the 222 night service to N222 and incorporating a double run to Heathrow Central. I know TfL would probably hate the idea but it doesn’t make sense for the route to sail past the main traffic destination in the area when there must be plenty of demand from West Drayton and Uxbridge at that time of night to/from Heathrow. It would also double the frequency of buses between Hounslow and Heathrow Central from 2ph to 4ph. Even if it only required one extra bus on the PVR it would probably break even. A substantial number remain on to T5. People are usually waiting at Heathrow Central for the N9 too having got off the 105 111 and N140 etc. What surprised me when I started driving the route was the number of people getting on between Aldwych and Hammersmith who go all the way to Terminal 5. The connections between other routes have also been ruined by the frequency cut. I think there’s a 26 minute wait for the N65 at Kew Bridge, 23 minute wait for the 111 or 281 at Hounslow and 28 minute wait for the 222 at Hounslow. Whereas before the cut everyone was making connections within 5 minutes etc if the journey was planned well. It’s like TfL have considered nothing. Some drivers have said it’s an agenda from TfL to punish London United and cause poor perfomance 🤣 |
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Post by DE20106 on Oct 20, 2023 9:22:07 GMT
Thanks. Do most people get off the N9 at Heathrow Central or is there a decent load continuing on to Terminal 5? I also wonder whether it would be worth changing the 222 night service to N222 and incorporating a double run to Heathrow Central. I know TfL would probably hate the idea but it doesn’t make sense for the route to sail past the main traffic destination in the area when there must be plenty of demand from West Drayton and Uxbridge at that time of night to/from Heathrow. It would also double the frequency of buses between Hounslow and Heathrow Central from 2ph to 4ph. Even if it only required one extra bus on the PVR it would probably break even. A substantial number remain on to T5. People are usually waiting at Heathrow Central for the N9 too having got off the 105 111 and N140 etc. What surprised me when I started driving the route was the number of people getting on between Aldwych and Hammersmith who go all the way to Terminal 5. The connections between other routes have also been ruined by the frequency cut. I think there’s a 26 minute wait for the N65 at Kew Bridge, 23 minute wait for the 111 or 281 at Hounslow and 28 minute wait for the 222 at Hounslow. Whereas before the cut everyone was making connections within 5 minutes etc if the journey was planned well. It’s like TfL have considered nothing. Some drivers have said it’s an agenda from TfL to punish London United and cause poor perfomance 🤣 Is there anyway of trying to bring the N9’s chronic overcrowding to TfL’s attention? I know it’s a hard sell to get them to do a frequency increase but enough pressure has worked before. Getting left behind at the dead of night (where safety is probably questionable in a lot of places) with a half hour wait, potentially more if the operation is running poorly is just an absolute no no |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 20, 2023 10:44:41 GMT
A substantial number remain on to T5. People are usually waiting at Heathrow Central for the N9 too having got off the 105 111 and N140 etc. What surprised me when I started driving the route was the number of people getting on between Aldwych and Hammersmith who go all the way to Terminal 5. The connections between other routes have also been ruined by the frequency cut. I think there’s a 26 minute wait for the N65 at Kew Bridge, 23 minute wait for the 111 or 281 at Hounslow and 28 minute wait for the 222 at Hounslow. Whereas before the cut everyone was making connections within 5 minutes etc if the journey was planned well. It’s like TfL have considered nothing. Some drivers have said it’s an agenda from TfL to punish London United and cause poor perfomance 🤣 Is there anyway of trying to bring the N9’s chronic overcrowding to TfL’s attention? I know it’s a hard sell to get them to do a frequency increase but enough pressure has worked before. Getting left behind at the dead of night (where safety is probably questionable in a lot of places) with a half hour wait, potentially more if the operation is running poorly is just an absolute no no I certainly think loosing the (N)23 between H Park Corner and Hammersmith and the (N)27 to Turnham Green would have atleast seen the restoration of the shorts to Hounslow again. You could contact TFL but I would imagine their modelling would show enough capacity if everything is running properly, ie no late running, cancelled services, night tube running and therefore their response will likely be the current freq meets all requirements. |
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Post by gwiwer on Oct 20, 2023 14:30:21 GMT
The 481 and H22 run virtually empty into the hospital grounds, so I’d be happy to see either or both kicked out and rerouted somewhere more useful like Gillette Corner Tesco or Brentford County Court. I know that would go against the grain of the current agenda to improve access to hospitals but the reality is the 481 is too infrequent for most hospital patients to bother with and the H22 duplicates the 267 and most passengers prefer to wait at the common stop outside on Twickenham Road from where there is a more frequent service to Twickenham. Both routes can be kicked out easily, just send the H22 back to Richmond, (either sharing a stand with the H37 or using the Queen's Road stand), along with a small frequency increase to the 267, and extend the 481 to Brentford County Court or Osterley Tesco as you have said. The H22 replaced the 110 over the Twickenham - WMH section and only after the initial consultation drew howls of protest about the loss of a direct link between Twickenham and the hospital itself. The 267 stops outside but access to the hospital requires crossing a busy road and a short but inconvenient walk up the approach road which has no continuous footpath and multiple access ways to negotiate. The H22 therefore meets the wishes of those who used to board the 110. Not large numbers but rather more than use the 481. I have argued before as to whether there is any value in continuing the 481 given its very low patronage. The responses I had here mentioned that it was considered for a school-only 600-series route but that it is somehow cheaper to run as an all-day public route. I don't entirely believe that if only because much more fuel is consumed than would be the case if it were confined to a couple of school runs. There is very little traffic indeed on the 481 which cannot be absorbed nor covered by other routes aside from the school trips. |
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Post by gwiwer on Oct 20, 2023 14:33:37 GMT
I think M1004 specifically meant Victoria Coach Station which is a bit of a trek from Victoria Bus Station. It’s a five minute walk, hardly a trek. I’ve done it hundreds of times. It's inconvenient when dragging heavy bags. That said all attempts over many years to make a Victoria (rail / bus / tube) Station - Coach Station service work have failed. It once formed a part of the Red Arrow network as the 511. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 20, 2023 14:35:51 GMT
Both routes can be kicked out easily, just send the H22 back to Richmond, (either sharing a stand with the H37 or using the Queen's Road stand), along with a small frequency increase to the 267, and extend the 481 to Brentford County Court or Osterley Tesco as you have said. The H22 replaced the 110 over the Twickenham - WMH section and only after the initial consultation drew howls of protest about the loss of a direct link between Twickenham and the hospital itself. The 267 stops outside but access to the hospital requires crossing a busy road and a short but inconvenient walk up the approach road which has no continuous footpath and multiple access ways to negotiate. The H22 therefore meets the wishes of those who used to board the 110. Not large numbers but rather more than use the 481. I have argued before as to whether there is any value in continuing the 481 given its very low patronage. The responses I had here mentioned that it was considered for a school-only 600-series route but that it is somehow cheaper to run as an all-day public route. I don't entirely believe that if only because much more fuel is consumed than would be the case if it were confined to a couple of school runs. There is very little traffic indeed on the 481 which cannot be absorbed nor covered by other routes aside from the school trips. I found out how difficult it was to cross that road when I walked from the hospital to Isleworth Station when I did an end to end 117 recently, more difficult than crossing the far busier A23 where I live so I can understand that concern completely. As for the 481, surely the issue is if you have such a low frequency at every 30 minutes, it's difficult to determine if the route is actually a dud or if the frequency is holding back higher patronage particularly in an area that isn't on the outskirts of London? |
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