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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 26, 2023 15:56:40 GMT
Would it be useful to also extend the 11 to Hammersmith, stand space is available now that the 23 has gone. Hammersmith has lost a lot of central London links with the 10 and 23 gone Luckily for Hammersmith, it has 4 Tube lines all serving different parts of Central London The 23 stand in the Upper Bus Station is now used by the 218. Hammersmith to Victoria via the 211 is a very long bus journey, I’m not sure it is a viable option for most people. The 11, 211 and 295 between Hammersmith and Fulham Broadway would provide excessive capacity. |
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Post by YX10FFN on Oct 26, 2023 15:58:13 GMT
Would it be useful to also extend the 11 to Hammersmith, stand space is available now that the 23 has gone. Hammersmith has lost a lot of central London links with the 10 and 23 gone Luckily for Hammersmith, it has 4 Tube lines all serving different parts of Central London Some of the loads I've seen on the 9 after the 23 was pulled away suggest that passengers still very much use the bus from Central out to Hammersmith. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 26, 2023 16:00:18 GMT
Luckily for Hammersmith, it has 4 Tube lines all serving different parts of Central London Some of the loads I've seen on the 9 after the 23 was pulled away suggest that passengers still very much use the bus from Central out to Hammersmith. The 9 is certainly busier, but it is now doing the work of two routes eastbound from Hammersmith. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 26, 2023 16:14:32 GMT
I would be more worried about the loss of the direct link to Victoria from the Fulham Road corridor and Chelsea & Westminster Hospital, than between Fulham Palace Road/Lillie Road/Dawes Road and Victoria. There is certainly a need for a link from Fulham and Chelsea to Battersea Power Station, which is a pain to get to from the north side of the Thames, west of Sloane Square. Ideally I’d like the 211 to continue to Vauxhall so that the whole of the Nine Elms Lane corridor can benefit. The problem with continuing the 211 to Vauxhall is the corridor would be overbussed with the 156, 344 & 436 all running alongside. The 156 & 344 are stalwarts of that corridor and shouldn't be moved under any circumstance so unless the 436 disappears from there, the Power Station is the most the 211 could go to. Nine Elms corridor has bits of industry along there that might use buses but the souless pricey new builds along there are anything but directed at regulars who might take the bus - not the corridor it once was when the 44, 156 & 344 would all load well along here. I'm still disappointed that the bus gate wasn't put in at the end of Thessaly Road for the proposed P5 extension the Power Station as that could of potentially introduced a useful link from the south both for the Power Station, that stations and for Battersea Dogs & Cats Home I think the pricey new build occupants would be more likely to use the 211 to Chelsea than the 436 to Peckham, I’ve never been convinced that the 436 is the right route for Nine Elms Lane, most people would take the first bus and change at Vauxhall given the hopper fare and reasonably pleasant interchange facilities at the bus station there. Agree that the P5 needs to serve Battersea Power Station, would make lots of local journeys easier. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Oct 26, 2023 16:16:55 GMT
The H22 replaced the 110 over the Twickenham - WMH section and only after the initial consultation drew howls of protest about the loss of a direct link between Twickenham and the hospital itself. The 267 stops outside but access to the hospital requires crossing a busy road and a short but inconvenient walk up the approach road which has no continuous footpath and multiple access ways to negotiate. The H22 therefore meets the wishes of those who used to board the 110. Not large numbers but rather more than use the 481. Howls of protest is typical from some of the folks in my borough but the routes are very lightly used in to the hospital itself. You'll find the stops out on Twickenham Road are far busier. Passengers using links to the hospital from areas served by the 267 and H28 have had to walk in the whole time, along with E8 users who were told by TFL when it was extended they should just walk from Busch Corner! So true, I wouldn’t mind if people actually used the H22 into the hospital but they don’t and it could be so much more useful. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 26, 2023 17:05:50 GMT
The problem with continuing the 211 to Vauxhall is the corridor would be overbussed with the 156, 344 & 436 all running alongside. The 156 & 344 are stalwarts of that corridor and shouldn't be moved under any circumstance so unless the 436 disappears from there, the Power Station is the most the 211 could go to. Nine Elms corridor has bits of industry along there that might use buses but the souless pricey new builds along there are anything but directed at regulars who might take the bus - not the corridor it once was when the 44, 156 & 344 would all load well along here. I'm still disappointed that the bus gate wasn't put in at the end of Thessaly Road for the proposed P5 extension the Power Station as that could of potentially introduced a useful link from the south both for the Power Station, that stations and for Battersea Dogs & Cats Home I think the pricey new build occupants would be more likely to use the 211 to Chelsea than the 436 to Peckham, I’ve never been convinced that the 436 is the right route for Nine Elms Lane, most people would take the first bus and change at Vauxhall given the hopper fare and reasonably pleasant interchange facilities at the bus station there. Agree that the P5 needs to serve Battersea Power Station, would make lots of local journeys easier. I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 26, 2023 17:11:48 GMT
Luckily for Hammersmith, it has 4 Tube lines all serving different parts of Central London Some of the loads I've seen on the 9 after the 23 was pulled away suggest that passengers still very much use the bus from Central out to Hammersmith. While it would largely parallel the tube, I wonder if a link from Central London to Hammersmith via South Kensington might work, using the A4 to serve the area around Barons Court too? |
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Post by Green Kitten on Oct 26, 2023 17:27:32 GMT
Would it be useful to also extend the 11 to Hammersmith, stand space is available now that the 23 has gone. Hammersmith has lost a lot of central London links with the 10 and 23 gone Luckily for Hammersmith, it has 4 Tube lines all serving different parts of Central London There’s some useful links such as a direct link to the Royal Albert Hall (quite a walk from South Kensington station) and ICL. I used the 9 and 10 (RIP) a lot when I lived in Hammersmith to go to uni. Considering it was 17.5bph back in the day perhaps 6bph just isn’t enough. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 26, 2023 17:29:06 GMT
According to this month's LOTS publication the 211 will be rerouted to Battersea Power Station from Saturday November 18th, the 77 thus on the same day rerouted via Station Approach for Waterloo Station. It will definitely be well used. A lot of people tend to board the 137 and alight at Battersea Park Station then walk to Battersea Park Road to get the 344 or 436. Overall from reading some other comments about extending it to Vauxhall. If the current Waterloo changes had been thought of a few years ago the 436 could have remained going to Paddington. What I find ridiculous about the 436 is it has to go a full loop around Vauxhall Bus Station before serving the stop. 36 always seems to have crowds waiting for it. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 26, 2023 17:40:44 GMT
Luckily for Hammersmith, it has 4 Tube lines all serving different parts of Central London There’s some useful links such as a direct link to the Royal Albert Hall (quite a walk from South Kensington station) and ICL. I used the 9 and 10 (RIP) a lot when I lived in Hammersmith to go to uni. Considering it was 17.5bph back in the day perhaps 6bph just isn’t enough. The 9 could probably use an 8 mins frew again but the need for 2 routes between Hammersmith and HPC had definitely gone by the time of the consultation and I think it was the right decision to send the 23 back to Aldwych. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Oct 26, 2023 18:00:27 GMT
I think the pricey new build occupants would be more likely to use the 211 to Chelsea than the 436 to Peckham, I’ve never been convinced that the 436 is the right route for Nine Elms Lane, most people would take the first bus and change at Vauxhall given the hopper fare and reasonably pleasant interchange facilities at the bus station there. Agree that the P5 needs to serve Battersea Power Station, would make lots of local journeys easier. I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. However it gives the Battersea Power Station residents a direct link to a major hospital, even though St Thomas is actually closer. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Oct 26, 2023 19:06:48 GMT
I think the pricey new build occupants would be more likely to use the 211 to Chelsea than the 436 to Peckham, I’ve never been convinced that the 436 is the right route for Nine Elms Lane, most people would take the first bus and change at Vauxhall given the hopper fare and reasonably pleasant interchange facilities at the bus station there. Agree that the P5 needs to serve Battersea Power Station, would make lots of local journeys easier. I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. Is there anything wrong with the P5 being indirect? vjaska would know better than me but I don't see anything wrong with that route. Diverting the 452 away from Wandsworth Road means that there is no link from Silverthorne Road to Wandsworth Road station or Vauxhall. You'd have to divert the 436 via the current 452 route to Battersea Park if you're having the 452 going via Nine Elms Lane which even then I'm not sure would work. I don't see what's the point of removing the 211 from there only to have the 24 extended there. Also I believe that there's a low bridge on Grovesnor Road preventing DDs from passing. Also if you're not sending the 211 there what on earth would you do with it? Sending the 211 to Battersea gives it purpose as opposed to duplicating the 11 part way between Fulham and Waterloo |
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Post by abellion on Oct 26, 2023 20:11:29 GMT
According to this month's LOTS publication the 211 will be rerouted to Battersea Power Station from Saturday November 18th, the 77 thus on the same day rerouted via Station Approach for Waterloo Station. It will definitely be well used. A lot of people tend to board the 137 and alight at Battersea Park Station then walk to Battersea Park Road to get the 344 or 436. Overall from reading some other comments about extending it to Vauxhall. If the current Waterloo changes had been thought of a few years ago the 436 could have remained going to Paddington. What I find ridiculous about the 436 is it has to go a full loop around Vauxhall Bus Station before serving the stop. 36 always seems to have crowds waiting for it. The 436 loop almost always leads to a 36 getting ahead from the bridge and taking all the passengers, the Battersea Park and Oval stops swapping would be helpful for speeding up the 436. |
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Post by abellion on Oct 26, 2023 20:15:39 GMT
I think the pricey new build occupants would be more likely to use the 211 to Chelsea than the 436 to Peckham, I’ve never been convinced that the 436 is the right route for Nine Elms Lane, most people would take the first bus and change at Vauxhall given the hopper fare and reasonably pleasant interchange facilities at the bus station there. Agree that the P5 needs to serve Battersea Power Station, would make lots of local journeys easier. I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. I still don’t see what benefit the 436 going to Clapham Junction brings. There are more than enough buses on the 77, 87, 156 and 344 and Clapham Junction doesn’t need to be linked to Oval directly. The 35/37/345 provide similar links and its not like there is a heavy flow of people who board at CJ going east of Brixton. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 26, 2023 21:02:57 GMT
I think the pricey new build occupants would be more likely to use the 211 to Chelsea than the 436 to Peckham, I’ve never been convinced that the 436 is the right route for Nine Elms Lane, most people would take the first bus and change at Vauxhall given the hopper fare and reasonably pleasant interchange facilities at the bus station there. Agree that the P5 needs to serve Battersea Power Station, would make lots of local journeys easier. I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. There is no need to split the P5 just because it's indirect - some people need to get out of this idea that every route must be direct. The P5 being indirect is why it works - it was designed to run down back streets and has evolved this further with it's extension beyond Stockwell & Clapham North to the Patmore Estate. Splitting the P5 at Brixton also unnecessarily breaks cross Brixton journeys. The 211 was chosen because the idea is for a link from the west to the Power Station which currently is a bit of a faff, it has nothing to do with linking Nine Elms Lane up which the 211 won't do as it would finish by Battersea Park Road - whether the route in question is double or single is neither here nor there. I've always been dubious about this change however with seeing how busy the Power Station, I'll give it a chance first. The 452 exists in the area to provide required capacity along Wandsworth Road as well provide local journeys that the 436 couldn't provide in the same form |
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