|
|
Post by greenboy on Oct 27, 2023 9:01:32 GMT
I think the pricey new build occupants would be more likely to use the 211 to Chelsea than the 436 to Peckham, I’ve never been convinced that the 436 is the right route for Nine Elms Lane, most people would take the first bus and change at Vauxhall given the hopper fare and reasonably pleasant interchange facilities at the bus station there. Agree that the P5 needs to serve Battersea Power Station, would make lots of local journeys easier. I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. You may well be right about the 211 to BPS and the other ideas you suggested have some merit although without the BPS extension the 211 would be left without much purpose. I don't think TfL would extend the 24 as it would take custom from the tube and the 44 from Victoria stops close to BPS, P5 extension to Pimlico might be useful although I think the 436 to Clapham Junction might be difficult to justify. |
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Oct 27, 2023 11:47:09 GMT
I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. You may well be right about the 211 to BPS and the other ideas you suggested have some merit although without the BPS extension the 211 would be left without much purpose. I don't think TfL would extend the 24 as it would take custom from the tube and the 44 from Victoria stops close to BPS, P5 extension to Pimlico might be useful although I think the 436 to Clapham Junction might be difficult to justify. Yes I can't see the 436 to Clapham Junction when there's the London Overground from Peckham and Camberwell to Clapham Junction. New Cross is just a change at Surrey Quays and Lewisham a change at Peckham Rye. |
|
|
|
Post by orangejamieboss on Oct 27, 2023 12:02:26 GMT
I'm not convinced the 211's DD capacity will be needed to Battersea, and wonder if an SD route might have been more suitable here. For example could split the indirect P5, with one section running from Brixton to Patmore Estate, then install a bus gate to continue via the Power Station and across the river? Or another option might be to simply divert the 452 directly via Nine Elms Lane, with the 436 then replacing it via Wandsworth Road, perhaps continuing to Clapham Junction? In any case though I'm not sure if Chelsea specifically needs a link through to Nine Elms Lane. For passengers going to the Power Station, the stops at the south end of Chelsea Bridge are equally close, where the 452 already stops. While TFL are looking at improving bus links to the area, I think there's been a missed opportunity for a short extension of the 24 via Chelsea Bridge to the Power Station. This would provide a useful local link to Pimlico and Victoria (and beyond to the West End). Particularly as the proposed pedestrian bridge isn't happening any time soon. Is there anything wrong with the P5 being indirect? vjaska would know better than me but I don't see anything wrong with that route. Diverting the 452 away from Wandsworth Road means that there is no link from Silverthorne Road to Wandsworth Road station or Vauxhall. You'd have to divert the 436 via the current 452 route to Battersea Park if you're having the 452 going via Nine Elms Lane which even then I'm not sure would work. I don't see what's the point of removing the 211 from there only to have the 24 extended there. Also I believe that there's a low bridge on Grovesnor Road preventing DDs from passing. Also if you're not sending the 211 there what on earth would you do with it? Sending the 211 to Battersea gives it purpose as opposed to duplicating the 11 part way between Fulham and Waterloo The bridge on Grosvenor Road is most certainly not a low bridge and DDs go under it frequently, buses dead running from QB to the Pimlico terminus go under it. In the past where there has been an incident, the 44, 137 and 452 have all gone under this bridge when on diversion. Among other routes that take the route are the N97 dead running from Trafalgar Square back to AF, the 148 dead running back to S, and the 11/N11 to SW. |
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 27, 2023 12:04:21 GMT
You may well be right about the 211 to BPS and the other ideas you suggested have some merit although without the BPS extension the 211 would be left without much purpose. I don't think TfL would extend the 24 as it would take custom from the tube and the 44 from Victoria stops close to BPS, P5 extension to Pimlico might be useful although I think the 436 to Clapham Junction might be difficult to justify. Yes I can't see the 436 to Clapham Junction when there's the London Overground from Peckham and Camberwell to Clapham Junction. New Cross is just a change at Surrey Quays and Lewisham a change at Peckham Rye. The 345 exists despite the Overground and the 436 to Clapham Junction would create a cross Vauxhall link from the east - South London severly lacks these links outside of the 37 which loads heavily despite serving Peckham Rye & Clapham Junction so can't see how the Overground existing should immediately render a 436 extension moot. The biggest issue at present is duplicating the 156 or 344 at the western end. |
|
|
|
Post by rift on Oct 27, 2023 16:31:38 GMT
Yes I can't see the 436 to Clapham Junction when there's the London Overground from Peckham and Camberwell to Clapham Junction. New Cross is just a change at Surrey Quays and Lewisham a change at Peckham Rye. The 345 exists despite the Overground and the 436 to Clapham Junction would create a cross Vauxhall link from the east - South London severly lacks these links outside of the 37 which loads heavily despite serving Peckham Rye & Clapham Junction so can't see how the Overground existing should immediately render a 436 extension moot. The biggest issue at present is duplicating the 156 or 344 at the western end. The Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction branch of the Overground is also frequently closed for engineering works, so duplicating the 156 and 344 seems to be a much more noticeable issue as you say. |
|
|
|
Post by matthieu1221 on Oct 27, 2023 17:51:25 GMT
Luckily for Hammersmith, it has 4 Tube lines all serving different parts of Central London There’s some useful links such as a direct link to the Royal Albert Hall (quite a walk from South Kensington station) and ICL. I used the 9 and 10 (RIP) a lot when I lived in Hammersmith to go to uni. Considering it was 17.5bph back in the day perhaps 6bph just isn’t enough.
The 9, 15 and 24 are all very touristy routes which I feel need a slight frequency boost again after the COVID cuts now that tourism is back (and they do like to take the bus!).
|
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Oct 27, 2023 19:03:53 GMT
The 345 exists despite the Overground and the 436 to Clapham Junction would create a cross Vauxhall link from the east - South London severly lacks these links outside of the 37 which loads heavily despite serving Peckham Rye & Clapham Junction so can't see how the Overground existing should immediately render a 436 extension moot. The biggest issue at present is duplicating the 156 or 344 at the western end. The Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction branch of the Overground is also frequently closed for engineering works, so duplicating the 156 and 344 seems to be a much more noticeable issue as you say. Could consider extending the 436 over the 156 to Clapham Junction, then send the 156 somewhere else for some new links? Or might an 87/156 merger work (going via Wandsworth Road)? Would be a similar length to the 77 - and has been mentioned the 156 gets busy between Wandsworth and Wimbledon, so could do with an frequency increase to match the 87. |
|
|
|
Post by abellion on Oct 27, 2023 19:11:20 GMT
The Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction branch of the Overground is also frequently closed for engineering works, so duplicating the 156 and 344 seems to be a much more noticeable issue as you say. Could consider extending the 436 over the 156 to Clapham Junction, then send the 156 somewhere else for some new links? Or might an 87/156 merger work (going via Wandsworth Road)? Would be a similar length to the 77 - and has been mentioned the 156 gets busy between Wandsworth and Wimbledon, so could do with an frequency increase to match the 87. The 156 is extremely susceptible to traffic and is often unreliable during school hours, it should not be extended especially over such a busy stretch. The 87 is heavily used already and the 156 has established demand on its routing via Battersea Park, I think both are worth more than what the 436 going to Clapham Junction would bring. |
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Oct 27, 2023 19:29:30 GMT
Could consider extending the 436 over the 156 to Clapham Junction, then send the 156 somewhere else for some new links? Or might an 87/156 merger work (going via Wandsworth Road)? Would be a similar length to the 77 - and has been mentioned the 156 gets busy between Wandsworth and Wimbledon, so could do with an frequency increase to match the 87. The 156 is extremely susceptible to traffic and is often unreliable during school hours, it should not be extended especially over such a busy stretch. The 87 is heavily used already and the 156 has established demand on its routing via Battersea Park, I think both are worth more than what the 436 going to Clapham Junction would bring. The 156 is relatively quiet compared to other routes between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction. |
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Oct 27, 2023 19:39:02 GMT
The 156 is extremely susceptible to traffic and is often unreliable during school hours, it should not be extended especially over such a busy stretch. The 87 is heavily used already and the 156 has established demand on its routing via Battersea Park, I think both are worth more than what the 436 going to Clapham Junction would bring. The 156 is relatively quiet compared to other routes between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction. I know from experience that the 156 certainly isn’t quiet when south west rail or the district line goes down the tubes (pun not intended) 😂 had to get to Wimbledon a few of years ago before covid, with both District line AND south west down. Result: squashed up against the door on a 156 🤣 |
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Oct 27, 2023 19:41:11 GMT
The 156 is relatively quiet compared to other routes between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction. I know from experience that the 156 certainly isn’t quiet when south west rail or the district line goes down the tubes (pun not intended) 😂 had to get to Wimbledon a few of years ago before covid, with both District line AND south west down. Result: squashed up against the door on a 156 🤣 I’ve taken it at peaks when SWR has gone down and it still didn’t attract as near as much traffic as the 344, 77 and 87 did. In my experiences it’s always been the quietest. |
|
|
|
Post by abellion on Oct 27, 2023 19:50:46 GMT
The 156 is extremely susceptible to traffic and is often unreliable during school hours, it should not be extended especially over such a busy stretch. The 87 is heavily used already and the 156 has established demand on its routing via Battersea Park, I think both are worth more than what the 436 going to Clapham Junction would bring. The 156 is relatively quiet compared to other routes between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction. That doesn't mean that the Wimbledon section should suffer as a result and it picks up heavily from Battersea Power Station nowadays. The 77/87/344 are obviously busier northbound because they take people into Central London and the 436 won't do that. |
|
|
|
Post by DE20106 on Oct 27, 2023 19:51:30 GMT
I know from experience that the 156 certainly isn’t quiet when south west rail or the district line goes down the tubes (pun not intended) 😂 had to get to Wimbledon a few of years ago before covid, with both District line AND south west down. Result: squashed up against the door on a 156 🤣 I’ve taken it at peaks when SWR has gone down and it still didn’t attract as near as much traffic as the 344, 77 and 87 did. In my experiences it’s always been the quietest. I agree the 156’s peers are busier along that corridor, but being the only one that serves Wimbledon out of those and there being no other alternative options for passengers going there, it certainly earned its keep 😂 |
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Oct 27, 2023 19:51:54 GMT
The 156 is relatively quiet compared to other routes between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction. That doesn't mean that the Wimbledon section should suffer as a result and it picks up heavily from Battersea Power Station nowadays. The 77/87/344 are obviously busier northbound because they take people into Central London and the 436 won't do that. Where did I say the Wimbledon section should suffer? |
|
|
|
Post by southlondon413 on Oct 27, 2023 19:53:06 GMT
I’ve taken it at peaks when SWR has gone down and it still didn’t attract as near as much traffic as the 344, 77 and 87 did. In my experiences it’s always been the quietest. I agree the 156’s peers are busier along that corridor, but being the only one that serves Wimbledon out of those and there being no other alternative options for passengers going there, it certainly earned its keep 😂 I agree, the 156 is one of the few routes that has always managed to match its demand. All credit to Abellio as it does seem very well run. |
|
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/11870459504_6ea15873b0_b-56a3e1325f9b58b7d0d43e8e.jpg)
