Upcoming changes

[secretbu5dude]

Dec 23, 2023 18:36:13 GMT rift said:

Dec 23, 2023 8:55:45 GMT VMH2537 said:

Considering the 228 once ran 5bph. It's hard to imagine it's now going to be every half hourly! 😨

I wonder what route has had the highest cut to its frequency within the last 2 decades? I would guess it’s likely to be the 209.

The 112 could be a contender for the opposite, going from 3bph until 2008 to 8pbh in peaks today.

Yeah 209 for sure. Pretty much parallels 378 mostly doesn't it?

[southlondonbus]

Dec 23, 2023 19:13:15 GMT secretbu5dude said:

Dec 23, 2023 18:36:13 GMT rift said:

I wonder what route has had the highest cut to its frequency within the last 2 decades? I would guess it’s likely to be the 209.

The 112 could be a contender for the opposite, going from 3bph until 2008 to 8pbh in peaks today.

Yeah 209 for sure. Pretty much parallels 378 mostly doesn't it?

Yes but even that only gives 6 bph between Mortlake and Barnes/Red Lion compared with up to 14 in the peaks back in the early 2010s.

[evergreenadam]

Dec 23, 2023 7:34:51 GMT lundnah said:

From Saturday 20th January...

Route 228 will have a new timetable from this date. Buses will be revised to run every 30 minutes from first to last bus on all days of the week. Route 228 will be operated by Metroline from this date.

That's down from every 24 minutes weekdays and Saturdays.

Half-hourly is a depressingly poor frequency for an inner London bus.

I get that passing the HS2 works at Old Oak Common must be taxing on the timetable.

But this isn't the usual 'temporary timetable', this is permanent.

Other changes from 20th January:

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 6 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 8-9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 11 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. No change to the night service This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during the roadworks in the Hyde Park Corner area which have resulted in the closure of the Piccadilly Underpass.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 52 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 11 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 13 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. No change to the night service This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during the roadworks in the Hyde Park Corner area which have resulted in the closure of the Piccadilly Underpass.

Route 91 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

Route 133 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times. Route 133 will be operated by Abellio from this date.

Route 137 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times.

Route 333 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times. Route 333 will be operated by Go Ahead from this date.

Route 380 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times.

Route 388 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 390 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 11 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. No change to the night service This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during the roadworks in the Hyde Park Corner area which have resulted in the closure of the Piccadilly Underpass.

Route 482 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

Route N91 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

Route N133 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with minor changes to times. Route N133 will be operated by Abellio from this date.

Route N137 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with minor changes to times.

[evergreenadam]

Dec 20, 2023 14:57:08 GMT JUNIOR26 said:

Route 278 changes at Ruislip Station - 6 January 2024
There will be a change to the first and last stops at Ruislip Station from Saturday 6 January.

Route 278 buses will now set down passengers at the alighting point on Station Approach at Ruislip Station. At the same time route 278 will no longer pick up from stop B when heading towards Heathrow Airport. Route 278 buses towards Heathrow will now pick up from bus stop C on Ruislip High Street instead.

There is no change to the timetable with route 278 continuing to run every 15 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 20 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. There is no change to the times of first and last buses on any day of the week.

Other changes from 6th January, not previously posted here:

The following timetable changes will be taking place from Saturday 6 January 2024.

Route 53 will be restored to running through to Plumstead Bus Garage following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. Route 53 runs every 8 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays, every 10 minutes during the daytime on Sundays and every 12 minutes during the evening on all days of the week.

Route 96 will be return to its normal route between Woolwich and Plumstead following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. The temporary timetable will be removed with route 96 returning to run every 8 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays, every 12 minutes during the daytime on Sundays and every 15 minutes during the evening on all days of the week.

Route 122 will be restored to running through to Plumstead Bus Garage following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. Route 122 runs every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.

Route 177 will be return to its normal route between Woolwich and Plumstead following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. The temporary timetable will be removed with route 177 returning to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 12 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.

Route 180 will be return to its normal route between Woolwich and Plumstead following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. The temporary timetable will be removed with route 180 returning to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 187 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 16 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 21 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during major HS2 works in the Swiss Cottage & Willesden Junctions areas.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 195 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 13 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 16 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. There is no change to the service in the early morning or during the evenings. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during major roadworks on the A4 in the Brentford area.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 220 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 8-9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Fridays and every 8 minutes during daytime on Saturdays. There is no change to the service in the early morning or evenings or at any time on Sundays. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during major HS2 works in the Willesden Junction area.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 237 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 13 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. There is no change to the service in the early morning or during the evenings. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during major roadworks on the A4 in the Brentford area.

Following the end of the diversion at Westerham Hill route 246 returns to normal line of route with a brand new timetable in place. Buses will continue to run every 30 minutes during the daytime Monday to Saturdays and every 60 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays but with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 260 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 13 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 16 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. There is no change to the service in the early morning or during the evenings. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during major HS2 works in the North Acton area.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 266 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 9 minutes during the AM & PM Peak on Monday to Fridays and daytime on Saturdays and every 11 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. There is no change to the service in the early morning on all days, the daytime on Monday to Fridays or during the evenings on all days. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during major HS2 works in the North Acton area.

Route 380 will be return to its normal route between Woolwich and Plumstead following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. The temporary timetable will be removed with route 380 returning to run every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.

Route 383 will have a new timetable on Monday to Saturdays with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

Route 422 will be return to its normal route between Woolwich and Plumstead following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. The temporary timetable will be removed with route 422 returning to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 12 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays.

24 hour route 472 will be return to its normal route between Woolwich and Plumstead following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. The temporary timetable will be removed with route 472 returning to run every 8 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Fridays, every 10 minutes during the daytime on Saturdays, every 10 minutes on Monday to Saturday evenings and every 12 minutes all day on Sundays. The overnight service on route 472 will continue to run every 30 minutes on all nights of the week.

Route H26 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times.

Route N53 will be restored to running through to Plumstead Bus Garage following the completion of the roadworks on Pettman Crescent. Route N53 runs every 30 minutes on Sunday to Thursday nights and every 15 minutes on Friday and Saturday nights.

Route N266 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with minor changes to times.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route U9 which will widen the frequency of the service to every 25 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 70 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during HS2 works on Harvil Road.

[gwiwer]

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route U9 which will widen the frequency of the service to every 25 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 70 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during HS2 works on Harvil Road.

TfL willl argue that it's all about money and the lack of it to support any extra resources.  

From the passenger point of view 25 and 70-minute headways are absurd.  They cannot be memorised except perhaps by a very few people whose brains can do such things.  Even a 60-minute headway can be memorised to the extent that it is "turn up and go at the same time every hour".  

As we here know some other routes have even more ridiculous headways in the name of allowing more running time without increasing costs.  

[redbus]

Dec 23, 2023 22:53:21 GMT gwiwer said:

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route U9 which will widen the frequency of the service to every 25 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 70 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during HS2 works on Harvil Road.

TfL willl argue that it's all about money and the lack of it to support any extra resources.  

From the passenger point of view 25 and 70-minute headways are absurd.  They cannot be memorised except perhaps by a very few people whose brains can do such things.  Even a 60-minute headway can be memorised to the extent that it is "turn up and go at the same time every hour".  

As we here know some other routes have even more ridiculous headways in the name of allowing more running time without increasing costs.  

I think that where roads are dug up that cause delays to buses, whoever wants or needs the road dug up should pay the cost of any extra resources to ensure bus headways do not change. Arguably a modified the 'lane rental' scheme could be used to achieve this. 

[Eastlondoner62]

Dec 24, 2023 0:31:49 GMT redbus said:

Dec 23, 2023 22:53:21 GMT gwiwer said:

TfL willl argue that it's all about money and the lack of it to support any extra resources.  

From the passenger point of view 25 and 70-minute headways are absurd.  They cannot be memorised except perhaps by a very few people whose brains can do such things.  Even a 60-minute headway can be memorised to the extent that it is "turn up and go at the same time every hour".  

As we here know some other routes have even more ridiculous headways in the name of allowing more running time without increasing costs.  

I think that where roads are dug up that cause delays to buses, whoever wants or needs the road dug up should pay the cost of any extra resources to ensure bus headways do not change. Arguably a modified the 'lane rental' scheme could be used to achieve this. 

I think it should depend on the reason, if it's a non-essential closure that's beneficial to a certain party such as when Virgin or BT dig up a road to place cable then absolutely they should pay for any increase in transport resources. However it becomes sticky when it's road maintenance. If you were to introduce such rule I'd imagine the private companies will actually pay up, however the local councils won't which will lead to road neglect instead which might be a greater evil. 

[Green Kitten]

At least 2bph is easier to remember than 2.5bph

[DE20106]

Dec 23, 2023 18:36:13 GMT rift said:

Dec 23, 2023 8:55:45 GMT VMH2537 said:

Considering the 228 once ran 5bph. It's hard to imagine it's now going to be every half hourly! 😨

I wonder what route has had the highest cut to its frequency within the last 2 decades? I would guess it’s likely to be the 209.

The 112 could be a contender for the opposite, going from 3bph until 2008 to 8pbh in peaks today.

I would also argue the 209 shouldn’t be counted, it’s genuine external circumstances that have caused its decline (ie Hammersmith Bridge) and will likely go back to its original form/frequency when the bridge reopens, all the routes in the area are technically under temporary (albeit long term) routings at the moment. If when it reopens the 209 permanently stays as it is then you could probably count it, but with the 209 and 72 arguably being the most important routes over that bridge I reckon they’ll be the first to revert when it opens

[gwiwer]

Dec 24, 2023 9:33:27 GMT DE20106 said:

Dec 23, 2023 18:36:13 GMT rift said:

I wonder what route has had the highest cut to its frequency within the last 2 decades? I would guess it’s likely to be the 209.

The 112 could be a contender for the opposite, going from 3bph until 2008 to 8pbh in peaks today.

I would also argue the 209 shouldn’t be counted, it’s genuine external circumstances that have caused its decline (ie Hammersmith Bridge) and will likely go back to its original form/frequency when the bridge reopens, all the routes in the area are technically under temporary (albeit long term) routings at the moment. If when it reopens the 209 permanently stays as it is then you could probably count it, but with the 209 and 72 arguably being the most important routes over that bridge I reckon they’ll be the first to revert when it opens

It depends upon whether the bridge reopens to double-decker vehicles but there could be some beneficial changes if they were allowed across once more.  

9 - extended back to Mortlake
33- double-decker operation resumed (after many years) with headway reduced slightly to match capacity and demand.  Perhaps a base of 6bph not 7-8bph but peaks extras would still be required
72 - extended back to the southern side but where to?  Probably Alton Road.  If this too could be worked by double deckers then another slight cut in headway could save TfL those vital pennies. 
209 - withdrawn if the 9 resumes to Mortlake as it would no longer be needed.
533 - withdrawn because the need for it would no longer exist. 

[southlondon413]

Dec 24, 2023 10:06:35 GMT gwiwer said:

Dec 24, 2023 9:33:27 GMT DE20106 said:

I would also argue the 209 shouldn’t be counted, it’s genuine external circumstances that have caused its decline (ie Hammersmith Bridge) and will likely go back to its original form/frequency when the bridge reopens, all the routes in the area are technically under temporary (albeit long term) routings at the moment. If when it reopens the 209 permanently stays as it is then you could probably count it, but with the 209 and 72 arguably being the most important routes over that bridge I reckon they’ll be the first to revert when it opens

It depends upon whether the bridge reopens to double-decker vehicles but there could be some beneficial changes if they were allowed across once more.  

9 - extended back to Mortlake
33- double-decker operation resumed (after many years) with headway reduced slightly to match capacity and demand.  Perhaps a base of 6bph not 7-8bph but peaks extras would still be required
72 - extended back to the southern side but where to?  Probably Alton Road.  If this too could be worked by double deckers then another slight cut in headway could save TfL those vital pennies. 
209 - withdrawn if the 9 resumes to Mortlake as it would no longer be needed.
533 - withdrawn because the need for it would no longer exist. 

The strengthened bridge will almost certainly, imo, have weight restrictions still. I severely doubt TfL will be able to run anywhere near as many buses over it as they did before. I suspect they may get restricted to one or two routes. Maybe even combining them into one like the 33, but remaining SD. Or even two loop routes recasting the 533 into a clockwise and anticlockwise service like the H9/H10 in Harrow.

[DE20106]

Dec 24, 2023 10:58:03 GMT southlondon413 said:

Dec 24, 2023 10:06:35 GMT gwiwer said:

It depends upon whether the bridge reopens to double-decker vehicles but there could be some beneficial changes if they were allowed across once more.  

9 - extended back to Mortlake
33- double-decker operation resumed (after many years) with headway reduced slightly to match capacity and demand.  Perhaps a base of 6bph not 7-8bph but peaks extras would still be required
72 - extended back to the southern side but where to?  Probably Alton Road.  If this too could be worked by double deckers then another slight cut in headway could save TfL those vital pennies. 
209 - withdrawn if the 9 resumes to Mortlake as it would no longer be needed.
533 - withdrawn because the need for it would no longer exist. 

The strengthened bridge will almost certainly, imo, have weight restrictions still. I severely doubt TfL will be able to run anywhere near as many buses over it as they did before. I suspect they may get restricted to one or two routes. Maybe even combining them into one like the 33, but remaining SD. Or even two loop routes recasting the 533 into a clockwise and anticlockwise service like the H9/H10 in Harrow.

If only a certain amount of routes can be restored I think the 72 will definitely take precedence. It was by far the busiest route over it and the passengers who lost that link in Roehampton and Barnes will certainly want it back

[southlondon413]

Dec 24, 2023 11:12:25 GMT DE20106 said:

Dec 24, 2023 10:58:03 GMT southlondon413 said:

The strengthened bridge will almost certainly, imo, have weight restrictions still. I severely doubt TfL will be able to run anywhere near as many buses over it as they did before. I suspect they may get restricted to one or two routes. Maybe even combining them into one like the 33, but remaining SD. Or even two loop routes recasting the 533 into a clockwise and anticlockwise service like the H9/H10 in Harrow.

If only a certain amount of routes can be restored I think the 72 will definitely take precedence. It was by far the busiest route over it and the passengers who lost that link in Roehampton and Barnes will certainly want it back

I think that would depend on how travel patterns will have undoubtedly changed in the last few years. Some in Roehampton may prefer to go to Putney instead with the 85 or 430 and those slightly further down beyond the hospital may just walk to Barnes Station or walk to take the 337 to Putney. The whole area, imho, will need an entirely new bus network to properly reflect how patterns have changed.

[evergreenadam]

Dec 24, 2023 10:58:03 GMT southlondon413 said:

Dec 24, 2023 10:06:35 GMT gwiwer said:

It depends upon whether the bridge reopens to double-decker vehicles but there could be some beneficial changes if they were allowed across once more.  

9 - extended back to Mortlake
33- double-decker operation resumed (after many years) with headway reduced slightly to match capacity and demand.  Perhaps a base of 6bph not 7-8bph but peaks extras would still be required
72 - extended back to the southern side but where to?  Probably Alton Road.  If this too could be worked by double deckers then another slight cut in headway could save TfL those vital pennies. 
209 - withdrawn if the 9 resumes to Mortlake as it would no longer be needed.
533 - withdrawn because the need for it would no longer exist. 

The strengthened bridge will almost certainly, imo, have weight restrictions still. I severely doubt TfL will be able to run anywhere near as many buses over it as they did before. I suspect they may get restricted to one or two routes. Maybe even combining them into one like the 33, but remaining SD. Or even two loop routes recasting the 533 into a clockwise and anticlockwise service like the H9/H10 in Harrow.

None of the repair schemes involve the restoration of double deck operation over the bridge, single deckers will be the best you can hope for.

I hope that the 533 is not just scrapped on the basis that once Hammersmith Bridge reopens it will no longer be needed. There needs to be some kind of Turnham Green/Chiswick to Mortlake/Barnes/Sheen route to provide cross river connections and reduce the heavy number of car trips currently being made for such journeys along the South Circular.

[JUNIOR26]

Dec 23, 2023 19:48:26 GMT evergreenadam said:

Dec 23, 2023 7:34:51 GMT lundnah said:

From Saturday 20th January...

Route 228 will have a new timetable from this date. Buses will be revised to run every 30 minutes from first to last bus on all days of the week. Route 228 will be operated by Metroline from this date.

That's down from every 24 minutes weekdays and Saturdays.

Half-hourly is a depressingly poor frequency for an inner London bus.

I get that passing the HS2 works at Old Oak Common must be taxing on the timetable.

But this isn't the usual 'temporary timetable', this is permanent.

Other changes from 20th January:

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 6 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 8-9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 11 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. No change to the night service This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during the roadworks in the Hyde Park Corner area which have resulted in the closure of the Piccadilly Underpass.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 52 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 11 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 13 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. No change to the night service This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during the roadworks in the Hyde Park Corner area which have resulted in the closure of the Piccadilly Underpass.

Route 91 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

Route 133 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times. Route 133 will be operated by Abellio from this date.

Route 137 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times.

Route 333 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times. Route 333 will be operated by Go Ahead from this date.

Route 380 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times.

Route 388 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times.

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 390 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 9 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 11 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. No change to the night service This temporary timetable will give buses more time to complete journeys during the roadworks in the Hyde Park Corner area which have resulted in the closure of the Piccadilly Underpass.

Route 482 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

Route N91 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels.

Route N133 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with minor changes to times. Route N133 will be operated by Abellio from this date.

Route N137 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with minor changes to times.

91 transfers to NP on that date too.