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Post by SILENCED on Jan 13, 2024 12:14:38 GMT
I think you underestimate the South London public There are enough of us around who remember when the 408 ran Chelsham to Guildford through Croydon. There are plenty of us around who remember many routes going to places they no longer ... so don't see why that should be an issue. If the 190 number was to ever become available, would you rule out it ever returning to the Croydon area? People go on about the importance of the TfL brand, now you are saying it means nothing.
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 13, 2024 12:29:47 GMT
The current Surrey 408 is way too close to this proposed 408 - it’s a really poor choice I’m afraid - sorry. I think you underestimate the South London public Was out in Peckham on Thursday evening. 12436 pulled out of the stand to serve the first stop but had Not In Service blinds still on. A woman argued with the driver after he attempted to pull away, but soon scrolled the 177 blinds and 6 or so people boarded. I thought to myself this wouldn't happen in any other part of London, especially as loads of buses were heading back to their garages at the time.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 13, 2024 12:33:14 GMT
There are enough of us around who remember when the 408 ran Chelsham to Guildford through Croydon. There are plenty of us around who remember many routes going to places they no longer ... so don't see why that should be an issue. If the 190 number was to ever become available, would you rule out it ever returning to the Croydon area? There isn’t a 190 running near Croydon right now which is the point me and twobellstogo were making. 408 runs through Chipstead Valley which is close by the current 407 routing
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 13, 2024 12:47:48 GMT
There are plenty of us around who remember many routes going to places they no longer ... so don't see why that should be an issue. If the 190 number was to ever become available, would you rule out it ever returning to the Croydon area? There isn’t a 190 running near Croydon right now which is the point me and twobellstogo were making. 408 runs through Chipstead Valley which is close by the current 407 routing But we are talking for the Croydon -Sutton section ... and you really consider that close? If you do we are going to have to agree to disagree as to me that is inconsequential.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 13, 2024 12:49:27 GMT
There isn’t a 190 running near Croydon right now which is the point me and twobellstogo were making. 408 runs through Chipstead Valley which is close by the current 407 routing But we are talking for the Croydon -Sutton section ... and you really consider that close? It’s close enough in my view - at least with the 26 that ran in Upminster, it was still far away from TfL’s 26 to never be an issue
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Post by borneobus on Jan 13, 2024 13:11:26 GMT
I think you underestimate the South London public There are enough of us around who remember when the 408 ran Chelsham to Guildford through Croydon. I must be very young then ;-) as I only remember London Country Leyland Atlanteans on the 408 operating Guildford - West Croydon. I never knew the route at one time operated as far out as Chelsham - assumedly CM ran the route...?
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 13, 2024 16:11:41 GMT
There isn’t a 190 running near Croydon right now which is the point me and twobellstogo were making. 408 runs through Chipstead Valley which is close by the current 407 routing But we are talking for the Croydon -Sutton section ... and you really consider that close? If you do we are going to have to agree to disagree as to me that is inconsequential. Of course that’s far too close! When there are so many other numbers that can be used, to think that 408 is the most appropriate number for this is ridiculous, it really is.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 13, 2024 16:21:53 GMT
But we are talking for the Croydon -Sutton section ... and you really consider that close? It’s close enough in my view - at least with the 26 that ran in Upminster, it was still far away from TfL’s 26 to never be an issue Ironically the 408 at Chipstead Valley is still the same one as before with retrenchments and extensions in different directions.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jan 13, 2024 16:28:02 GMT
It’s close enough in my view - at least with the 26 that ran in Upminster, it was still far away from TfL’s 26 to never be an issue Ironically the 408 at Chipstead Valley is still the same one as before with retrenchments and extensions in different directions. That it is : although much shrivelled and Cobham is not a traditional 408 destination.
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 13, 2024 16:35:01 GMT
But we are talking for the Croydon -Sutton section ... and you really consider that close? If you do we are going to have to agree to disagree as to me that is inconsequential. Of course that’s far too close! When there are so many other numbers that can be used, to think that 408 is the most appropriate number for this is ridiculous, it really is. I personally think this nanny state attitude is ridiculous ... We both think likewise of the other. Why would anyone in Croydon or Sutton get confused with the other route? Popustrus suggestion.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 13, 2024 16:51:01 GMT
Of course that’s far too close! When there are so many other numbers that can be used, to think that 408 is the most appropriate number for this is ridiculous, it really is. I personally think this nanny state attitude is ridiculous ... We both think likewise of the other. Why would anyone in Croydon or Sutton get confused with the other route? Popustrus suggestion. Same could be said for suffix letters etc which I'm sure the public were more capable of following then was thought.
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Post by SILENCED on Jan 13, 2024 16:54:35 GMT
I personally think this nanny state attitude is ridiculous ... We both think likewise of the other. Why would anyone in Croydon or Sutton get confused with the other route? Popustrus suggestion. Same could be said for suffix letters etc which I'm sure the public were more capable of following then was thought. Exactly, we managed for years, then someone decided the London public were no longer capable of handing the of concept suffixes, despite bus users in other parts of the country still managing to grasp the idea. Anyone going to own up to struggling with the concept? There will be two routes numbered 3 in Bromley. SL3 and N3, will the world end ... No!
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Post by vjaska on Jan 13, 2024 18:26:31 GMT
Same could be said for suffix letters etc which I'm sure the public were more capable of following then was thought. Exactly, we managed for years, then someone decided the London public were no longer capable of handing the of concept suffixes, despite bus users in other parts of the country still managing to grasp the idea. Anyone going to own up to struggling with the concept? There will be two routes numbered 3 in Bromley. SL3 and N3, will the world end ... No! I’d argue that while suffixes still exist in some places, they are not as common outside London as they once were. Ask passengers if they care as much as some enthusiasts do about suffixes? It’s not about managing or not managing - it’s entirely plausible to mix up two numbers that are exactly the same and that run in or nearby similar areas. Your example of SL3 & N3 doesn’t work because there is a clear distinction between the SL3 - a Superloop route and the N3 - a night route that follows the daytime 3. What is the clear distinction between the 408 & the 408? The answer is none Nanny state has nothing to do with anything. We hold different opinions on how to number something and that’s ok in both our views
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 13, 2024 22:02:25 GMT
There are enough of us around who remember when the 408 ran Chelsham to Guildford through Croydon. I must be very young then ;-) as I only remember London Country Leyland Atlanteans on the 408 operating Guildford - West Croydon. I never knew the route at one time operated as far out as Chelsham - assumedly CM ran the route...? CM, LH and GF shared honours with the crews (it was an epic RT route) of one garage usually taking relief at another. In response to other comments we do live in a dynamic environment where there is always change. Some changes need to be more respectful of the recent past than others as is the case with a 408 in the Croydon area. Recycling a well-known route number in the same area might not be ideal when others are available. Suffix letters are still in use and I can't see a valid objection to them being re-used in London either. We have prefix letters (sometimes two of them now) so why not suffix letters for appropriate situations such as a single-trip route variation. Those occur in a few places within TfL territory. There hasn't always been consistency however. The 140 Sunday deviations via Cherry Lane Cemetery which were quite a significant deviation from the normal LOR and enough to warrant yellow blinds did not warrant them being a 140A for example.
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Post by Leccy86Hybrid on Jan 17, 2024 20:53:34 GMT
Charing Cross Road Closure Charing Cross Road is closed northbound from Duncannon Street to William IV Street until Saturday 13 April for gas main works which is impacting bus routes in the area as follows.
Route 24 is diverted between Trafalgar Square and Cambridge Circus towards Hampstead Heath only with buses rerouted via Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Waterloo Place, Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Avenue during the closure. No change to towards Pimlico.
Route 29 will start and finish at Tottenham Court Road Station with no service between here and Trafalgar Square. Please use route 24 between Tottenham Court Road and Trafalgar Square.
Route 176 will start and finish at Aldwych with no service between here and Tottenham Court Road Station. For Charing Cross Road and Tottenham Court Road use route 188 from Aldwych and change at Tottenham Court Road Station. For Trafalgar Square use any bus route from Aldwych that heads along the Strand.
Route N5 is diverted between Trafalgar Square and Cambridge Circus towards Edgware only with buses rerouted via Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Waterloo Place, Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Avenue during the closure. No change to towards Trafalgar Square.
Route N20 is diverted between Trafalgar Square and Cambridge Circus towards Barnet Hospital only with buses rerouted via Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Waterloo Place, Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Avenue during the closure. No change to towards Trafalgar Square.
Route N29 is diverted between Trafalgar Square and Cambridge Circus towards Enfield only with buses rerouted via Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Waterloo Place, Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Avenue during the closure. No change to towards Trafalgar Square.
Route N41 is diverted between Trafalgar Square and Cambridge Circus towards Tottenham Hale only with buses rerouted via Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Waterloo Place, Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Avenue during the closure. No change to towards Trafalgar Square.
Route N279 is diverted between Trafalgar Square and Cambridge Circus towards Waltham Cross only with buses rerouted via Cockspur Street, Pall Mall, Waterloo Place, Piccadilly Circus and Shaftesbury Avenue during the closure. No change to towards Trafalgar Square.
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