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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 10, 2024 11:14:23 GMT
Correct it isn't affected at all by the 407/443 split. Where did you hear this? This is good news if so, out of all the changes taking place this was the one I was least in favour of purely because I felt it would be more effective to extend the 403 to Sutton and keep the 407 running between Caterham and West Croydon only. And as southlondonbus mentioned in the post above, the introduction of the SL7 has probably rendered a West Croydon to Sutton part of the 407 or an extension of the 403 pointless or less cost effective. So I wouldn't be surprised if the 407 became Caterham to West Croydon only, with it being withdrawn between West Croydon and Sutton. Most of the intermediate stops between West Croydon and Sutton are served by alternative routes from West Croydon, however the small section between Ringstead Road and Lind Road would need to be served by another route if this happened. It's the only part of the West Croydon to Sutton part of the 407 that's exclusively served by it, maybe the S3 could be rerouted slightly to cover it? Outright removing the 407 service because of the SL7 is a bit dramatic, from my observations it is still used well, a decrease on the Croydon-Sutton leg would make more sense. It could certainly go back to every 15 mins as that was the freq deemed suitable for the new 443 and I would say would be sufficient for the 407 to Sutton now aswell.
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 10, 2024 11:32:28 GMT
Outright removing the 407 service because of the SL7 is a bit dramatic, from my observations it is still used well, a decrease on the Croydon-Sutton leg would make more sense. It could certainly go back to every 15 mins as that was the freq deemed suitable for the new 443 and I would say would be sufficient for the 407 to Sutton now aswell. I’m not convinced it would, the 407/SL7 don’t share a common stop in Sutton and unless that changes it will attract people who either don't want to walk up the hill or need to go to a specific stop. Unless TfL have a plan to change that so the SL7 diverts into Sutton towards Croydon I can’t see how it would be drawing numbers away.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 10, 2024 11:33:32 GMT
Why does it have to?. The 434 isn't too effected by the new 443 is it Correct it isn't affected at all by the 407/443 split. 407/443 have been indefinitely postponed Where did you hear this? This is good news if so, out of all the changes taking place this was the one I was least in favour of purely because I felt it would be more effective to extend the 403 to Sutton and keep the 407 running between Caterham and West Croydon only. And as southlondonbus mentioned in the post above, the introduction of the SL7 has probably rendered a West Croydon to Sutton part of the 407 or an extension of the 403 pointless or less cost effective. So I wouldn't be surprised if the 407 became Caterham to West Croydon only, with it being withdrawn between West Croydon and Sutton. Most of the intermediate stops between West Croydon and Sutton are served by alternative routes from West Croydon, however the small section between Ringstead Road and Lind Road would need to be served by another route if this happened. It's the only part of the West Croydon to Sutton part of the 407 that's exclusively served by it, maybe the S3 could be rerouted slightly to cover it? I agree about the 403/407 suggestion but I think there would be an outcry if there were no stopping service between Purley Way and Sutton and demands for stops to be added to the SL7. On a similar theme though I did wonder if the Wallington section of the 410 should be withdrawn and the 455 remains? Every stop apart from the section of Croydon Road between Purley Way and Plough Lane would still have another service to Wallington.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Feb 11, 2024 0:30:33 GMT
Has there been another case of changes having been consulted on being given the go ahead then never put into effect? (aside from the 3 to Russell Square though that is a little different given that it was always to be implemented at a different time than the rest of that round of cuts)
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Post by evergreenadam on Feb 11, 2024 12:17:54 GMT
Has there been another case of changes having been consulted on being given the go ahead then never put into effect? (aside from the 3 to Russell Square though that is a little different given that it was always to be implemented at a different time than the rest of that round of cuts) Not having been consulted on but implemented anyway: H22 being rerouted to West Middlesex Hospital, although the proposed withdrawal between Twickenham and Richmond was consulted on.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 11, 2024 14:42:02 GMT
Has there been another case of changes having been consulted on being given the go ahead then never put into effect? (aside from the 3 to Russell Square though that is a little different given that it was always to be implemented at a different time than the rest of that round of cuts) Yes, the H22 being rerouted to West Middlesex Hospital. Technically that wasn't ever consulted on as such as the consumption was on cutting it to Twickenham Station. Strictly speaking the 6 running to Victoria was never actually consulted on either.
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Post by londonbuses on Feb 11, 2024 14:48:52 GMT
Yes, the H22 being rerouted to West Middlesex Hospital. Technically that wasn't ever consulted on as such as the consumption was on cutting it to Twickenham Station. Strictly speaking the 6 running to Victoria was never actually consulted on either. Very similar to some of the upcoming Sutton/Croydon changes too, the S2 running to Epsom and the 470 being cut back to Sutton was never consulted on either.
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Post by PGAT on Feb 11, 2024 15:26:23 GMT
It could certainly go back to every 15 mins as that was the freq deemed suitable for the new 443 and I would say would be sufficient for the 407 to Sutton now aswell. I’m not convinced it would, the 407/SL7 don’t share a common stop in Sutton and unless that changes it will attract people who either don't want to walk up the hill or need to go to a specific stop. Unless TfL have a plan to change that so the SL7 diverts into Sutton towards Croydon I can’t see how it would be drawing numbers away. The Grove Road/Post Office and Sutton Police Station stops are basically right next to each other so this is a non-issue
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 11, 2024 15:32:46 GMT
I’m not convinced it would, the 407/SL7 don’t share a common stop in Sutton and unless that changes it will attract people who either don't want to walk up the hill or need to go to a specific stop. Unless TfL have a plan to change that so the SL7 diverts into Sutton towards Croydon I can’t see how it would be drawing numbers away. The Grove Road/Post Office and Sutton Police Station stops are basically right next to each other so this is a non-issue They are towards Cheam/Sutton Town Centre and towards Cheam it isn’t as much of an issue as no one really boards the last 3-4 stops on the 407 so the journey is naturally onwards. The stops towards Croydon are more of a problem and that’s what I was referring to. You can’t see around the corner to the SL7 stop through the giant former G4S building. You can Wembley but not around a corner and if you’re already on a bus you wouldn’t get off. Not everyone is adept at apps etc or want to pay a small fortune for the TfL text message.
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Post by londonbuses on Feb 11, 2024 16:10:10 GMT
The Grove Road/Post Office and Sutton Police Station stops are basically right next to each other so this is a non-issue They are towards Cheam/Sutton Town Centre and towards Cheam it isn’t as much of an issue as no one really boards the last 3-4 stops on the 407 so the journey is naturally onwards. The stops towards Croydon are more of a problem and that’s what I was referring to. You can’t see around the corner to the SL7 stop through the giant former G4S building. You can Wembley but not around a corner and if you’re already on a bus you wouldn’t get off. Not everyone is adept at apps etc or want to pay a small fortune for the TfL text message. It's not ideal but if you stand on the corner where the buses swing out then you can see both stops. What's probably needed is another stopping route running parallel to the 407 between Sutton and Carshalton High Street (I have an idea about the 463 doing this but I won't post it here as its not relevant) as the SL7 serves consecutive stops at Carshalton High Street and Wallington Green, and the majority of people travelling to Croydon would probably use the train. The 407 could then drop down to every 15 mins, maybe even every 20 if a Beddington stop was added to the SL7.
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Post by gwiwer on Feb 11, 2024 16:27:53 GMT
Has there been another case of changes having been consulted on being given the go ahead then never put into effect? (aside from the 3 to Russell Square though that is a little different given that it was always to be implemented at a different time than the rest of that round of cuts) Not having been consulted on but implemented anyway: H22 being rerouted to West Middlesex Hospital, although the proposed withdrawal between Twickenham and Richmond was consulted on. Not consulted on as such but an adaptation of the original proposals, which were consulted on, in response to local complaints about loss of direct service into WMH grounds. There were also questions over stand space at Twickenham station as it was to have used the Albany stand rather than share the 290 which is only for one bus due to shortage of road space.
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Post by PGAT on Feb 11, 2024 17:22:29 GMT
They are towards Cheam/Sutton Town Centre and towards Cheam it isn’t as much of an issue as no one really boards the last 3-4 stops on the 407 so the journey is naturally onwards. The stops towards Croydon are more of a problem and that’s what I was referring to. You can’t see around the corner to the SL7 stop through the giant former G4S building. You can Wembley but not around a corner and if you’re already on a bus you wouldn’t get off. Not everyone is adept at apps etc or want to pay a small fortune for the TfL text message. It's not ideal but if you stand on the corner where the buses swing out then you can see both stops. What's probably needed is another stopping route running parallel to the 407 between Sutton and Carshalton High Street (I have an idea about the 463 doing this but I won't post it here as its not relevant) as the SL7 serves consecutive stops at Carshalton High Street and Wallington Green, and the majority of people travelling to Croydon would probably use the train. The 407 could then drop down to every 15 mins, maybe even every 20 if a Beddington stop was added to the SL7. I'd argue that if the Carshalton High St to Sutton section is taken care of, there isn't really a case for the 407 to exist anymore. The 410 still provides a frequent service between Wallington Green and Croydon, Beddington Library will have a service into Sutton via the S4, and Waddon will obviously have the train and the 154
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Post by southlondon413 on Feb 11, 2024 17:29:54 GMT
It's not ideal but if you stand on the corner where the buses swing out then you can see both stops. What's probably needed is another stopping route running parallel to the 407 between Sutton and Carshalton High Street (I have an idea about the 463 doing this but I won't post it here as its not relevant) as the SL7 serves consecutive stops at Carshalton High Street and Wallington Green, and the majority of people travelling to Croydon would probably use the train. The 407 could then drop down to every 15 mins, maybe even every 20 if a Beddington stop was added to the SL7. I'd argue that if the Carshalton High St to Sutton section is taken care of, there isn't really a case for the 407 to exist anymore. The 410 still provides a frequent service between Wallington Green and Croydon, Beddington Library will have a service into Sutton via the S4, and Waddon will obviously have the train and the 154 You would need a full time stopping double decker on that stretch. The 410/463 aren’t suitable replacements, even if the SL7 stopped. The 407 is still very busy in the peaks and during school hours.
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Post by greg on Feb 11, 2024 21:44:19 GMT
Has there been another case of changes having been consulted on being given the go ahead then never put into effect? (aside from the 3 to Russell Square though that is a little different given that it was always to be implemented at a different time than the rest of that round of cuts) Not having been consulted but implemented away was the 452 being withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove, Sainsburys and Kensal Rise. It was curtailed to Sainsburys for a while during roadworks, then diverted to Westbourne Park Station but seems to have permanently been cut back to Sainsburys and shares the stand (very small?) with the 295. A lot of the drivers deadrun back to X though. I do remember recalling an article about road modifications at Kensal Rise which required removing a route from the bus stand, but this was not from TFL but I guess the 452 was the killing route.
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Post by abellion on Feb 11, 2024 21:52:02 GMT
Has there been another case of changes having been consulted on being given the go ahead then never put into effect? (aside from the 3 to Russell Square though that is a little different given that it was always to be implemented at a different time than the rest of that round of cuts) Not having been consulted but implemented away was the 452 being withdrawn between Ladbroke Grove, Sainsburys and Kensal Rise. It was curtailed to Sainsburys for a while during roadworks, then diverted to Westbourne Park Station but seems to have permanently been cut back to Sainsburys and shares the stand (very small?) with the 295. A lot of the drivers deadrun back to X though. I do remember recalling an article about road modifications at Kensal Rise which required removing a route from the bus stand, but this was not from TFL but I guess the 452 was the killing route. They removed the 452 tiles from all of the stops between KR and Sainsburys one day and then that was it, I thought the complete silence about it was a bit strange, especially as it was supposed to be temporary.
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