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Post by evergreenadam on Jul 19, 2024 8:21:59 GMT
It’s not really, It’s a fresh air route outside of peak times. I once audaciously (and a bit naively) said that the 17 would cope fine with SDs, but that was until I used it in the peaks and we were completely fully loaded after KX. But off peak the loads are very light I think it still would manage tbh. I did see the 17 today at around 10PM with a decent load of people heading to Archway, probably the busiest Ive ever seen, but considering it was a SD, it would still be packed, just more standing than seated. The 17 would be absolutely fine with an SD service, I don’t think it’s naive at all. It runs thin air between Archway and Caledonian Road, is a feeder for when the 91 doesnt show to King’s Cross, and then also picks up nothing during the office closed hours of Chancery Lane. Only real time you’ll see a busy 17 is probably in the early mornings, afternoon for the lunch breaks and late evenings. And yet it was the 271 that was withdrawn to reduce ‘overbussing’ between Holloway Road and Archway! |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 19, 2024 9:35:00 GMT
It’s not really, It’s a fresh air route outside of peak times. I once audaciously (and a bit naively) said that the 17 would cope fine with SDs, but that was until I used it in the peaks and we were completely fully loaded after KX. But off peak the loads are very light I think it still would manage tbh. I did see the 17 today at around 10PM with a decent load of people heading to Archway, probably the busiest Ive ever seen, but considering it was a SD, it would still be packed, just more standing than seated. The 17 would be absolutely fine with an SD service, I don’t think it’s naive at all. It runs thin air between Archway and Caledonian Road, is a feeder for when the 91 doesnt show to King’s Cross, and then also picks up nothing during the office closed hours of Chancery Lane. Only real time you’ll see a busy 17 is probably in the early mornings, afternoon for the lunch breaks and late evenings. Even TfL clearly know there is excess capacity on the Caledonian Road corridor as they tried to remove the 259 from it. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 19, 2024 9:41:16 GMT
I think it still would manage tbh. I did see the 17 today at around 10PM with a decent load of people heading to Archway, probably the busiest Ive ever seen, but considering it was a SD, it would still be packed, just more standing than seated. The 17 would be absolutely fine with an SD service, I don’t think it’s naive at all. It runs thin air between Archway and Caledonian Road, is a feeder for when the 91 doesnt show to King’s Cross, and then also picks up nothing during the office closed hours of Chancery Lane. Only real time you’ll see a busy 17 is probably in the early mornings, afternoon for the lunch breaks and late evenings. And yet it was the 271 that was withdrawn to reduce ‘overbussing’ between Holloway Road and Archway! Had the stand still be acceptable at Highgate Village then extending the 17 there (with shorter buses) could have been an option to the 271 withdrawn. 17 would have maintained the Highgate Village to Nag's Head and 43/263 Archway to Highbury and 21 up to Nag's Head. 143/234/263 left as it was. As it turned out it proved an opportunity to remove the stand in the Village. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 19, 2024 10:02:14 GMT
And yet it was the 271 that was withdrawn to reduce ‘overbussing’ between Holloway Road and Archway! Had the stand still be acceptable at Highgate Village then extending the 17 there (with shorter buses) could have been an option to the 271 withdrawn. 17 would have maintained the Highgate Village to Nag's Head and 43/263 Archway to Highbury and 21 up to Nag's Head. 143/234/263 left as it was. As it turned out it proved an opportunity to remove the stand in the Village. I suggested a similar idea of rerouting the 43 instead via Highgate Village & East Finchley, then back to LOR at Muswell Hill. The 263 would have been left unchanged while the 234 would reroute via Muswell Hill Road. You could bin the N271 under this scenario as well as most of it would be covered by the revised 43(N), as well as the existing N20 & 134(N). You could even go one step further & reroute the 43 via Essex Road, replicating the full 271 routing, with the 21 going back to Newington Green & the 4 diverted at Angel to Liverpool St (56 now going to Blackfriars as per initial proposal). |
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Post by redbus on Jul 19, 2024 10:31:25 GMT
And yet it was the 271 that was withdrawn to reduce ‘overbussing’ between Holloway Road and Archway! Had the stand still be acceptable at Highgate Village then extending the 17 there (with shorter buses) could have been an option to the 271 withdrawn. 17 would have maintained the Highgate Village to Nag's Head and 43/263 Archway to Highbury and 21 up to Nag's Head. 143/234/263 left as it was. As it turned out it proved an opportunity to remove the stand in the Village. The stand at Highgate Village is still there, just has some flowerpots that could easily be removed to allow it to be used again! |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 19, 2024 10:34:17 GMT
Had the stand still be acceptable at Highgate Village then extending the 17 there (with shorter buses) could have been an option to the 271 withdrawn. 17 would have maintained the Highgate Village to Nag's Head and 43/263 Archway to Highbury and 21 up to Nag's Head. 143/234/263 left as it was. As it turned out it proved an opportunity to remove the stand in the Village. The stand at Highgate Village is still there, just has some flowerpots that could easily be removed to allow it to be used again! Didn’t the locals in the area dislike that stand & even tried to move the 271 to the 214’s stand at one point? |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 19, 2024 10:43:22 GMT
The stand at Highgate Village is still there, just has some flowerpots that could easily be removed to allow it to be used again! Didn’t the locals in the area dislike that stand & even tried to move the 271 to the 214’s stand at one point? There’s probably an element of that but there were boarding difficulties for people with mobility problems |
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Post by greenboy on Jul 19, 2024 10:59:28 GMT
I think it still would manage tbh. I did see the 17 today at around 10PM with a decent load of people heading to Archway, probably the busiest Ive ever seen, but considering it was a SD, it would still be packed, just more standing than seated. The 17 would be absolutely fine with an SD service, I don’t think it’s naive at all. It runs thin air between Archway and Caledonian Road, is a feeder for when the 91 doesnt show to King’s Cross, and then also picks up nothing during the office closed hours of Chancery Lane. Only real time you’ll see a busy 17 is probably in the early mornings, afternoon for the lunch breaks and late evenings. Even TfL clearly know there is excess capacity on the Caledonian Road corridor as they tried to remove the 259 from it. It has been suggested on here that the 17 be rerouted via York Way and Brecknock Road replacing the 390. |
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Post by bk10mfe on Jul 19, 2024 11:06:13 GMT
Even TfL clearly know there is excess capacity on the Caledonian Road corridor as they tried to remove the 259 from it. It has been suggested on here that the 17 be rerouted via York Way and Brecknock Road replacing the 390. Would have worked well if the 10 had been kept instead of the 390. |
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Post by greg on Jul 19, 2024 11:30:20 GMT
It has been suggested on here that the 17 be rerouted via York Way and Brecknock Road replacing the 390. Would have worked well if the 10 had been kept instead of the 390. It is what should have happened though in my eyes. Poor from TFL. Rerouting the 390 to London Bridge from King’s Cross replacing the 17 at a much lower frequency and withdrawn between King’s Cross and Notting Hill Gate would have been more effective. 17 withdrawn as a whole and the 10/73 untouched, Victoria and Hammersmith destinations respectively. However, Kensington Road was also seen as overbussed with the 9, 10 and 52 at the time, so I guess the 10 was the most likely to go. If we sent the 390 to London Bridge, kept the 73 alone to Victoria on its generous frequency, and still had no route 10, I reckon it would be absolutely fine. |
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jul 19, 2024 13:41:01 GMT
Never realised the 17 was every 15 on Sundays just like the 211. The only other major Central London route which comes to mind with a 4bph frequency on Sundays. The 47 which is a very prolific Zone 1 route is every 20 minutes on Sundays, which is a frankly ludicrous frequency for a route like that The 42, 44, 70 and 360 are also zone 1 4bph routes on Sundays Oh right, I'd forgotten about the 360 despite it being a local route!
Makes a lot of sense to increase Sunday routes as it has no effect on PVR yet caters to the better recovery of weekend travel vs weekday. The 360 could use a boost to every 12 on Sundays, a very good route for leisure destinations -- especially if the new e-buses end up being shorter than the current 12m SDs.
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Post by wirewiper on Jul 19, 2024 18:34:31 GMT
And yet it was the 271 that was withdrawn to reduce ‘overbussing’ between Holloway Road and Archway! Had the stand still be acceptable at Highgate Village then extending the 17 there (with shorter buses) could have been an option to the 271 withdrawn. 17 would have maintained the Highgate Village to Nag's Head and 43/263 Archway to Highbury and 21 up to Nag's Head. 143/234/263 left as it was. As it turned out it proved an opportunity to remove the stand in the Village. The stand at Highgate Village was not acceptable as it did not meet current accessibility standards, that was one of the drivers of the changes. |
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Post by Leccy86Hybrid on Jul 19, 2024 22:30:51 GMT
Changes to buses from Saturday 20 July 2024 The following timetable changes will take place from Saturday 20 July. Route 17 will have a new timetable from this date with minor changes to times. The Sunday daytime frequency will be increased to a bus every 12 minutes. No change to the frequency at any other time. The times of first buses will also change on Sundays with first buses retimed to depart at the same time as on Monday to Saturdays, 0420 from Archway towards London Bridge and 0500 from London Bridge towards Archway. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 201 with the service returning to run every 15 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays, every 20 minutes during the daytime on Sundays and every 30 minutes during the evening on all days of the week. Route 280 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times. Route C11 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times. Route W8 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with minor changes to times. School Holiday schedules will be in operation on the following routes: 18, 20, 27, 32, 39, 51, 53, 54, 60, 61, 62, 63, 66, 69, 70, 71, 75, 77, 81, 83, 86, 89, 90, 92, 96, 99, 103, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 113, 114, 119, 122, 127, 130, 131, 132, 134, 139, 140, 142, 143, 146, 150, 151, 154, 156, 157, 160, 161, 163, 164, 173, 174, 179, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 191, 197, 204, 208, 210, 212, 213, 216, 222, 227, 229, 233, 240, 245, 248, 251, 252, 256, 257, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 267, 270, 273, 275, 278, 280, 281, 282, 285, 287, 290, 292, 293, 294, 296, 297, 302, 313, 314, 321, 326, 328, 331, 336, 337, 347, 352, 353, 358, 363, 364, 367, 368, 370, 371, 372, 375, 384, 385, 386, 396, 397, 401, 404, 406, 407, 412, 417, 418, 422, 432, 433, 434, 439, 444, 450, 463, 464, 466, 467, 473, 481, 483, 490, 493, 498, 499, B11, B14, B16, C10, C11, D3, E2, E8, EL1, H2, H3, H12, H13, H18, H19, H22, H28, H32, H37, H91, H98, K1, K2, K3, P5, P12, S2, S3, S4, SL6, SL7, W6, W8, W11, W13 and W15. The new times for all the above routes will be available in our journey planner tool at www.tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journeyChanges to buses from Saturday 27 July 2024 The following changes will take place from Saturday 27 July. Route 117 will no longer serve bus stop HE in the grounds of West Middlesex Hospital. Buses will instead set down at bus stop HD and pick up from bus stop HA at the main hospital entrance. Route 481 will continue to serve bus stop HE. A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 266 which will widen the frequency of the AM peak service on Monday to Fridays to a bus every 9 minutes, to every 9-10 minutes during the daytime on Saturdays and to every 11-12 minutes during the daytime on Sundays. No change to frequency at any other time. The temporary timetable is to help with reliability during HS2 works along both Victoria Road and Atlas Road. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 368 with the service returning to run every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 20 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. Route 388 will have two additional journeys introduced on all days of the week at 2404 and 2416 from Stratford City Bus Station to London Bridge Bus Station. Route 394 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels. Buses will now run every 15 minutes during the daytime and every 20 minutes during the evening on all days of the week. The times of first buses will also change on Sundays with first buses retimed to depart at the same time as on Monday to Saturdays, 0530 from Homerton Hospital towards Islington, Angel and 0530 from Islington, Angel towards Homerton Hospital. The temporary timetable will be removed from route EL1 with the service returning to run every 5-6 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Fridays, every 6 minutes during the daytime on Saturdays and every 10 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The night service will continue to run every 30 minutes on all nights of the week. The temporary timetable will be removed from route EL2 with the service returning to run every 8 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Fridays, every 10 minutes during the daytime on Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The temporary timetable will be removed from route EL3 with the service returning to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Fridays, every 12 minutes during the daytime on Saturdays and every 20 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The new times for all the above routes will be available in our journey planner tool at www.tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journeyChanges to buses from Saturday 3 August 2024 The following changes will take place from Saturday 3 August. Route 19 will have a new timetable on all days of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels. A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 49 which will widen the frequency of the PM peak service to a bus every 10-11 minutes. No change to frequency at any other time. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 118 with the service returning to run every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 20 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 200 with the service returning to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 12 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. A temporary timetable will be introduced on route 297 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and to every 14 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. The night service will continue to run every 30 minutes on all nights of the week. A temporary timetable will be introduced on route E9 which will widen the frequency of the service to a bus every 13 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and to every 21 minutes during the evenings and all day on Sundays. Route N19 will have a new timetable on all nights of the week with journey times revised to better reflect current traffic levels. The new times for all the above routes will be available in our journey planner tool at www.tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journeyChanges to buses from Saturday 10 August 2024 The following changes will take place from Saturday 10 August. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 127 with the service returning to run every 10 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 195 with the service returning to run every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays, every 15 minutes during the daytime on Sundays and every 20 minutes during the evening on all days of the week. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 427 with the service returning to run every 8 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays, every 10 minutes during the daytime on Sundays and every 12 minutes during the evening on all days of the week. The temporary timetable will be removed from route 482 with the service returning to run every 20 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 30 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The temporary timetable will be removed from route E5 with the service returning to run every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 20 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The temporary timetable will be removed from route H32 with the service returning to run every 12 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 15 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The temporary timetable will be removed from route S1 with the service returning to run every 15 minutes during the daytime on Monday to Saturdays and every 20 minutes during the evening and all day on Sundays. The new times for all the above routes will be available in our journey planner tool at www.tfl.gov.uk/plan-a-journey |
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Post by londonbuses on Jul 20, 2024 3:08:08 GMT
Summary of Upcoming Changes
Changes from Saturday 20th July:
New timetable with frequency changes - 17 (increased from every 15 mins to every 12 mins on Sundays, earlier journeys added on Sundays).
New timetable with minor changes - 280, C11, W8
Temporary timetable removed - 201
School holiday timetables begin - 18, 20, 27, 32, 39, 51, 53, 54, 60, 61, 62, 63, 66, 69, 70, 71, 75, 77, 81, 83, 86, 89, 90, 92, 96, 99, 103, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 113, 114, 119, 122, 127, 130, 131, 132, 134, 139, 140, 142, 143, 146, 150, 151, 154, 156, 157, 160, 161, 163, 164, 173, 174, 179, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 191, 197, 204, 208, 210, 212, 213, 216, 222, 227, 229, 233, 240, 245, 248, 251, 252, 256, 257, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 267, 270, 273, 275, 278, 280, 281, 282, 285, 287, 290, 292, 293, 294, 296, 297, 302, 313, 314, 321, 326, 328, 331, 336, 337, 347, 352, 353, 358, 363, 364, 367, 368, 370, 371, 372, 375, 384, 385, 386, 396, 397, 401, 404, 406, 407, 412, 417, 418, 422, 432, 433, 434, 439, 444, 450, 463, 464, 466, 467, 473, 481, 483, 490, 493, 498, 499, B11, B14, B16, C10, C11, D3, E2, E8, EL1, H2, H3, H12, H13, H18, H19, H22, H28, H32, H37, H91, H98, K1, K2, K3, P5, P12, S2, S3, S4, SL6, SL7, W6, W8, W11, W13, W15.
Changes from Saturday 27th July:
New timetable with frequency changes - 388 (two extra late evening journeys towards London Bridge), 394 (decreased from every 12 mins to every 15 mins on Mon-Sat daytimes, increased from every 20 mins to every 15 mins on Sun daytimes)
Temporary timetable introduced - 266
Temporary timetable removed - 368, EL1, EL2, EL3
Other changes - 117 (stop change at West Middlesex Hospital)
Changes from Saturday 3rd August:
New timetable with minor changes - 19, N19
Temporary timetable introduced - 49, 297, E9
Temporary timetable removed - 118, 200
Changes from Saturday 10th August:
Temporary timetable removed - 127, 195, 427, 482, E5, H32, S1
Changes from Saturday 17th August:
New timetable with frequency changes - 243 (increased from every 8-9 mins to every 8 mins on Sat daytimes, increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins on Sun daytimes), W7 (decreased from every 3-4 mins to every 4-5 mins at peak times, increased from every 6 mins to every 5 mins on Mon-Sat daytimes, early morning frequencies increased on Sat/Sun, earlier journeys added on Sundays).
New timetable with minor changes - 170
Changes from Saturday 24th August:
New timetable with frequency changes - 5 (early morning frequency increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins), 50 (early morning, evening and Sunday service increased from every 20 mins to every 15 mins, earlier journeys added on Sundays), 115 (early morning frequency increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins), 255 (early morning, evening and Sunday service increased from every 20 mins to every 15 mins, earlier journeys added on Sundays).
New timetable with minor changes - 15, 130, 194, 250, 320, 410, N15, N250
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Post by DE20106 on Jul 20, 2024 6:52:33 GMT
Summary of Upcoming Changes Changes from Saturday 20th July: New timetable with frequency changes - 17 (increased from every 15 mins to every 12 mins on Sundays, earlier journeys added on Sundays). New timetable with minor changes - 280, C11, W8 Temporary timetable removed - 201 School holiday timetables begin - 18, 20, 27, 32, 39, 51, 53, 54, 60, 61, 62, 63, 66, 69, 70, 71, 75, 77, 81, 83, 86, 89, 90, 92, 96, 99, 103, 107, 108, 109, 110, 111, 113, 114, 119, 122, 127, 130, 131, 132, 134, 139, 140, 142, 143, 146, 150, 151, 154, 156, 157, 160, 161, 163, 164, 173, 174, 179, 181, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 191, 197, 204, 208, 210, 212, 213, 216, 222, 227, 229, 233, 240, 245, 248, 251, 252, 256, 257, 261, 262, 263, 264, 265, 267, 270, 273, 275, 278, 280, 281, 282, 285, 287, 290, 292, 293, 294, 296, 297, 302, 313, 314, 321, 326, 328, 331, 336, 337, 347, 352, 353, 358, 363, 364, 367, 368, 370, 371, 372, 375, 384, 385, 386, 396, 397, 401, 404, 406, 407, 412, 417, 418, 422, 432, 433, 434, 439, 444, 450, 463, 464, 466, 467, 473, 481, 483, 490, 493, 498, 499, B11, B14, B16, C10, C11, D3, E2, E8, EL1, H2, H3, H12, H13, H18, H19, H22, H28, H32, H37, H91, H98, K1, K2, K3, P5, P12, S2, S3, S4, SL6, SL7, W6, W8, W11, W13, W15. Changes from Saturday 27th July: New timetable with frequency changes - 388 (two extra late evening journeys towards London Bridge), 394 (decreased from every 12 mins to every 15 mins on Mon-Sat daytimes, increased from every 20 mins to every 15 mins on Sun daytimes) Temporary timetable introduced - 266 Temporary timetable removed - 368, EL1, EL2, EL3 Other changes - 117 (stop change at West Middlesex Hospital) Changes from Saturday 3rd August: New timetable with minor changes - 19, N19 Temporary timetable introduced - 49, 297, E9 Temporary timetable removed - 118, 200 Changes from Saturday 10th August: Temporary timetable removed - 127, 195, 427, 482, E5, H32, S1 Changes from Saturday 17th August: New timetable with frequency changes - 243 (increased from every 8-9 mins to every 8 mins on Sat daytimes, increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins on Sun daytimes), W7 (decreased from every 3-4 mins to every 4-5 mins at peak times, increased from every 6 mins to every 5 mins on Mon-Sat daytimes, early morning frequencies increased on Sat/Sun, earlier journeys added on Sundays). New timetable with minor changes - 170 Changes from Saturday 24th August: New timetable with frequency changes - 5 (early morning frequency increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins), 50 (early morning, evening and Sunday service increased from every 20 mins to every 15 mins, earlier journeys added on Sundays), 115 (early morning frequency increased from every 10 mins to every 8 mins), 255 (early morning, evening and Sunday service increased from every 20 mins to every 15 mins, earlier journeys added on Sundays). New timetable with minor changes - 15, 130, 194, 250, 320, 410, N15, N250 Wow that W7 is quite an impressive change actually. Crazy that a cut from 17 vehicles to 11 can still operate the W7 at every 4 to 5 minutes (but it makes sense considering it was around 18bph down to around 12/13bph). And also that’s hardly a frequency to complain about, if someone gonna complain about a service being cut to already an insanely high frequency then they really need to get out more and see some bigger issues in the world 😂. But better than that, an increase at other off peak times. A much better change than the initial W7 PVR cut ominously showed Then you’ve got all the other minor frequency increases from 24th August. Finally looks like we’re into more positive times for the bus network, with genuine attempts to stimulate extra usage than to just slash routes left right and centre |
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