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Post by Paul on Oct 29, 2015 19:47:19 GMT
The 30 Minute stand time is nessassary. Only 2 buses are in service at once while the 3rd Bus Stands at Purley. I did the route to Addington Village too, on apprach from Sanderstead to Selsdon traffic builds up and by the time the bus reaches Addington Village it does not even stand there it goes back to Purley. I take your point about the recovery time being necessary. I've travelled between Sanderstead and Selsdon in the car (attempting to avoid the M25!) and traffic can get quite heavy along there However, (you knew there was a 'however' coming didn't you?  ) is there not scope for pinching a bus off the 314 and using that resource to fund a fourth bus for the 359 and extend it into the estate over the 314 route and cutting the 314 back to the AVI? From my (albeit limited) experience of the 314, most people from the estate only use it to or from the AVI and these journeys could easily be done on an expanded 359 |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 29, 2015 20:03:05 GMT
The 30 Minute stand time is nessassary. Only 2 buses are in service at once while the 3rd Bus Stands at Purley. I did the route to Addington Village too, on apprach from Sanderstead to Selsdon traffic builds up and by the time the bus reaches Addington Village it does not even stand there it goes back to Purley. I take your point about the recovery time being necessary. I've travelled between Sanderstead and Selsdon in the car (attempting to avoid the M25!) and traffic can get quite heavy along there However, (you knew there was a 'however' coming didn't you? ) is there not scope for pinching a bus off the 314 and using that resource to fund a fourth bus for the 359 and extend it into the estate over the 314 route and cutting the 314 back to the AVI? From my (albeit limited) experience of the 314, most people from the estate only use it to or from the AVI and these journeys could easily be done on an expanded 359 Or another idea . Why not re-route the 314 via the Old 64 routing to Addington Village & New Addington making the 314 the quickest bus service, the 64 & 130 can certainly cope more than enough and extend the 359 to New Addington via the current 314? Surely this would be not a problem. |
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Post by sid on Oct 29, 2015 22:19:33 GMT
I had a ride this morning from Purley to Addington Village, just one other person on at the start although we were going against the flow, the bus I saw coming into Purley was busier. Picked up some people who all got off at Selsdon. Nobody else boarded until Monks Hill, picked up some old dears and they got off at the main road to get the 64 and nobody else to AV. I don't think I have ever known such a short route with 30 minutes stand time at one end, I'm sure drivers aren't complaining but obviously a poor use of resources. The 64's I saw towards Croydon were well loaded. I agree that the 359 has potential and could be a bit longer, I've scribbled a few ideas on a beer mat which I'll post on the new ideas section in due course. I did the 359 today as I could not fit it in the other day. From Addington Village and back There are a number of things which need to be mentioned here. The route is quite a handy fast link to Purley from Addington Village and far quicker than the 466. In addition there were quite a number of people using the bus. Sooner or later the 359 may become very popular. Purley Downs Road residents who do not want the bus down there can bugger off and move house. The route has been timetabled such a way that only one bus will serve Monks Hill at a time, the roads are two tight to have two buses serving it at once, there is a few roads which are double served in the same journey. The route does not need to be extended further otherwise the Monks Hill section should be removed. The 30 Minute stand time is nessassary. Only 2 buses are in service at once while the 3rd Bus Stands at Purley. I did the route to Addington Village too, on apprach from Sanderstead to Selsdon traffic builds up and by the time the bus reaches Addington Village it does not even stand there it goes back to Purley. I certainly cannot agree about 30 minutes stand time being necessary in fact the route could operate on a one hour cycle, certainly on my journey today the driver had no difficulty keeping to time and he was going at a fairly sedate pace throughout. I would actually favour extending the route from Purley to Roundshaw opening up some new links. Monks Hill residents have been asking for the 64 to be rerouted there for donkeys years, the 359 is better than nothing but Croydon is the main traffic objective. |
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Post by sid on Oct 29, 2015 22:23:33 GMT
The 30 Minute stand time is nessassary. Only 2 buses are in service at once while the 3rd Bus Stands at Purley. I did the route to Addington Village too, on apprach from Sanderstead to Selsdon traffic builds up and by the time the bus reaches Addington Village it does not even stand there it goes back to Purley. I take your point about the recovery time being necessary. I've travelled between Sanderstead and Selsdon in the car (attempting to avoid the M25!) and traffic can get quite heavy along there However, (you knew there was a 'however' coming didn't you? ) is there not scope for pinching a bus off the 314 and using that resource to fund a fourth bus for the 359 and extend it into the estate over the 314 route and cutting the 314 back to the AVI? From my (albeit limited) experience of the 314, most people from the estate only use it to or from the AVI and these journeys could easily be done on an expanded 359 I'm surprised that the 314 isn't better used, it was certainly an obvious gap in the network before the route was introduced but it just seems the vast majority of New Addingtonites prefer Croydon to Bromley for work, shopping, leisure activities etc. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 29, 2015 22:57:15 GMT
I did the 359 today as I could not fit it in the other day. From Addington Village and back There are a number of things which need to be mentioned here. The route is quite a handy fast link to Purley from Addington Village and far quicker than the 466. In addition there were quite a number of people using the bus. Sooner or later the 359 may become very popular. Purley Downs Road residents who do not want the bus down there can bugger off and move house. The route has been timetabled such a way that only one bus will serve Monks Hill at a time, the roads are two tight to have two buses serving it at once, there is a few roads which are double served in the same journey. The route does not need to be extended further otherwise the Monks Hill section should be removed. The 30 Minute stand time is nessassary. Only 2 buses are in service at once while the 3rd Bus Stands at Purley. I did the route to Addington Village too, on apprach from Sanderstead to Selsdon traffic builds up and by the time the bus reaches Addington Village it does not even stand there it goes back to Purley. I certainly cannot agree about 30 minutes stand time being necessary in fact the route could operate on a one hour cycle, certainly on my journey today the driver had no difficulty keeping to time and he was going at a fairly sedate pace throughout. I would actually favour extending the route from Purley to Roundshaw opening up some new links. Monks Hill residents have been asking for the 64 to be rerouted there for donkeys years, the 359 is better than nothing but Croydon is the main traffic objective. Err Not really, that service will not run effectively all day with 2 buses alone, when my bus arrived in Purley the bus in front had just departed to Addington Village and the trip back there was traffic in Sanderstead.... On arrival back to Addington Village it was 2 Minutes until the next Purley departure. Had a 3rd bus not been in service late running would accumulate at both ends of the route buses all day long. In addition so what happens when the route is late, annoying turns to Selsdon, a diabolical service is the last thing people need especially as a newly established link. Furthermore the service into Purley is only 6 Days old so is not going to be overloaded with passengers to your expectations. The 434 is very similar to the 359, stands for at least 20 Minutes at Whyteleafe South. If it was not for that the 434 would always be late and curtailed, as with the 359. Some short services have a PVR of 3 to allow for the stand time whislt two other buses are in service. |
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Post by sid on Oct 29, 2015 23:08:26 GMT
I certainly cannot agree about 30 minutes stand time being necessary in fact the route could operate on a one hour cycle, certainly on my journey today the driver had no difficulty keeping to time and he was going at a fairly sedate pace throughout. I would actually favour extending the route from Purley to Roundshaw opening up some new links. Monks Hill residents have been asking for the 64 to be rerouted there for donkeys years, the 359 is better than nothing but Croydon is the main traffic objective. Err Not really, that service will not run effectively all day with 2 buses alone, when my bus arrived in Purley the bus in front had just departed to Addington Village and the trip back there was traffic in Sanderstead.... On arrival back to Addington Village it was 2 Minutes until the next Purley departure. In addition so what happens when the route is late, annoying turns to Selsdon, a diabolical service is the last thing people need especially as a newly established link. Furthermore the service into Purley is only 6 Days old so is not going to be overloaded with passengers to your expectations. The 434 is very similar to the 359, stands for at least 20 Minutes at Whyteleafe South. If if was not for that the 434 would always be late and curtailed, as with the 359. Some short services have a PVR of 3 to allow for the stand time whislt two other buses are in service. Well obviously traffic congestion is potentially part and parcel of running bus services and 30 minutes stand time on such a short route is ridiculously extravagant. In normal traffic conditions buses should have no problem keeping to time. I'm sure the route will be a success and loadings will increase and hopefully a frequency increase and an evening service will follow. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 29, 2015 23:20:19 GMT
Err Not really, that service will not run effectively all day with 2 buses alone, when my bus arrived in Purley the bus in front had just departed to Addington Village and the trip back there was traffic in Sanderstead.... On arrival back to Addington Village it was 2 Minutes until the next Purley departure. In addition so what happens when the route is late, annoying turns to Selsdon, a diabolical service is the last thing people need especially as a newly established link. Furthermore the service into Purley is only 6 Days old so is not going to be overloaded with passengers to your expectations. The 434 is very similar to the 359, stands for at least 20 Minutes at Whyteleafe South. If if was not for that the 434 would always be late and curtailed, as with the 359. Some short services have a PVR of 3 to allow for the stand time whislt two other buses are in service. Well obviously traffic congestion is potentially part and parcel of running bus services and 30 minutes stand time on such a short route is ridiculously extravagant. In normal traffic conditions buses should have no problem keeping to time. I'm sure the route will be a success and loadings will increase and hopefully a frequency increase and an evening service will follow. It is a lot better than no stand time really. If that was the case the 3rd bus would be a peak bus. |
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Post by snoggle on Oct 29, 2015 23:54:45 GMT
Or another idea . Why not re-route the 314 via the Old 64 routing to Addington Village & New Addington making the 314 the quickest bus service, the 64 & 130 can certainly cope more than enough and extend the 359 to New Addington via the current 314? Surely this would be not a problem. I was musing earlier and wondered whether there was merit in one or both of these ideas. - extend the 359 via the old 64 just to New Addington. Would use up a little bit of the 30 mins stand time but not so much as to imperil reliability. Gives a direct link to the shops at New Addington. - link the 359 and 464 across New Addington as one through service. Obviously there are constraints on timetabling with both routes and it may be impossible to construct a viable timetable but given its early days with the 359 a Midi Pointer is probably adequate. I understand nothing larger can run on the 464. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 30, 2015 9:09:03 GMT
Or another idea . Why not re-route the 314 via the Old 64 routing to Addington Village & New Addington making the 314 the quickest bus service, the 64 & 130 can certainly cope more than enough and extend the 359 to New Addington via the current 314? Surely this would be not a problem. I was musing earlier and wondered whether there was merit in one or both of these ideas. - extend the 359 via the old 64 just to New Addington. Would use up a little bit of the 30 mins stand time but not so much as to imperil reliability. Gives a direct link to the shops at New Addington. - link the 359 and 464 across New Addington as one through service. Obviously there are constraints on timetabling with both routes and it may be impossible to construct a viable timetable but given its early days with the 359 a Midi Pointer is probably adequate. I understand nothing larger can run on the 464. Nice Idea, but the reason I suggested re-route the 314 is to still have the 314 serving New Addington, but a faster trip. The 64 & 130 are handling everything now  . The 359 & 464 should not be merged together. It sounds like a good idea, the 464 does not really serve any severe delay locations, the 464 pretty much runs on time whenever I see it. Would be a problem for the 359 the Sanderstead section in heavy traffic then to carry on further to Tatsfield late running. |
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Post by routew15 on Oct 30, 2015 9:24:32 GMT
I see the Purley Spider Map remains not updated so no sign of the 359 on it. I note also that the Selsdon Spider Map, although updated, is very confused as to when the 359 runs as it mentions "Monday to or Saturday off peak"  when the service runs Daily and also covers the peaks. Looks like someone wasn't paying attention when they updated the map.  I wonder if it was the same someone who thinks the 69 runs from Oxford Circus to Ilford, or that the 183 runs to North Finchley, or that the 607 goes to Bromley North, should I go on... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 12:51:43 GMT
I was musing earlier and wondered whether there was merit in one or both of these ideas. - extend the 359 via the old 64 just to New Addington. Would use up a little bit of the 30 mins stand time but not so much as to imperil reliability. Gives a direct link to the shops at New Addington. - link the 359 and 464 across New Addington as one through service. Obviously there are constraints on timetabling with both routes and it may be impossible to construct a viable timetable but given its early days with the 359 a Midi Pointer is probably adequate. I understand nothing larger can run on the 464. Nice Idea, but the reason I suggested re-route the 314 is to still have the 314 serving New Addington, but a faster trip. The 64 & 130 are handling everything now . The 359 & 464 should not be merged together. It sounds like a good idea, the 464 does not really serve any severe delay locations, the 464 pretty much runs on time whenever I see it. Would be a problem for the 359 the Sanderstead section in heavy traffic then to carry on further to Tatsfield late running. Also timetabling on the route due to the roads between New Addington and Biggin Hill being served are country roads plus Monks Hill being very tight I would like the route to go through Addington (Kent Gate Way) to PRU and Roundshaw/Wallington over side but however though as you said traffic and timetabling would be bad plus the route would just suffer a lot also PVR increase would be needed and this would couse more trouble. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 30, 2015 13:07:36 GMT
Or another idea . Why not re-route the 314 via the Old 64 routing to Addington Village & New Addington making the 314 the quickest bus service, the 64 & 130 can certainly cope more than enough and extend the 359 to New Addington via the current 314? Surely this would be not a problem. I was musing earlier and wondered whether there was merit in one or both of these ideas. - extend the 359 via the old 64 just to New Addington. Would use up a little bit of the 30 mins stand time but not so much as to imperil reliability. Gives a direct link to the shops at New Addington. - link the 359 and 464 across New Addington as one through service. Obviously there are constraints on timetabling with both routes and it may be impossible to construct a viable timetable but given its early days with the 359 a Midi Pointer is probably adequate. I understand nothing larger can run on the 464. I'm afraid I disagree with merging the 359 & 464 together and removing the 314 from New Addington. I've done the 314 from New Addington a few times and it had people going beyond Addington Village. As for merging the 359 & 464, I fear reliability issues would hit both routes. I also feel that people on the 464 only want to travel locally (I can't speak for the 359) and I don't see them needing to travel beyond Addington |
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Post by sam1212 on Oct 30, 2015 23:31:01 GMT
I think it would be a good idea for the 433 to be extended from addington village to west wickham , addington residents are allways complaining that they have to get 2 buses there
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Post by snoggle on Oct 31, 2015 0:24:07 GMT
I think it would be a good idea for the 433 to be extended from addington village to west wickham , addington residents are allways complaining that they have to get 2 buses there The 433 is very frequent though so any extension would be expensive. Probably better to extend the 464 or 359 to West Wickham as they're low frequency and therefore it's far cheaper to extend them and you give time for patronage to build up. 359 is probably better as it has some schedule "slack" and uses larger buses than the 464. You could probably extend the 359 with just 1 extra bus on the PVR. What is interesting about your remark is just how awkward a relatively local journey actually is. Athough there's an obvious road to use up to Shirley and then along no buses use that road and instead skirt round the edge of the area and never reach West Wickham. Would shopping be the main reason for going to West Wickham or is there also schools traffic? I went through the area on a 194 recently at school kicking out time and there were a lot of kids around using various buses. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 31, 2015 0:57:15 GMT
I think it would be a good idea for the 433 to be extended from addington village to west wickham , addington residents are allways complaining that they have to get 2 buses there The 433 is very frequent though so any extension would be expensive. Probably better to extend the 464 or 359 to West Wickham as they're low frequency and therefore it's far cheaper to extend them and you give time for patronage to build up. 359 is probably better as it has some schedule "slack" and uses larger buses than the 464. You could probably extend the 359 with just 1 extra bus on the PVR. What is interesting about your remark is just how awkward a relatively local journey actually is. Athough there's an obvious road to use up to Shirley and then along no buses use that road and instead skirt round the edge of the area and never reach West Wickham. Would shopping be the main reason for going to West Wickham or is there also schools traffic? I went through the area on a 194 recently at school kicking out time and there were a lot of kids around using various buses. Obviously won't happen now but another way would of been to divert the 466 between Shirley and Addington Village, extend the 353 to Croydon via the 466's routing through Shirley Oaks & Gravel Hill & extend the 464 to Forestdale giving the Forestdale area much more sensible use of capacity. The 466 change shouldn't cost that much more given it's not an extension and merely a re-routing though it'll probably require an extra bus whilst the 464 with it's low frequency shouldn't be too expensive either. The cost would come in on the extension of the 353 but I do think restoring a link between Croydon & Orpington would be welcomed and journey end to end times wouldn't be too long. |
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) is there not scope for pinching a bus off the 314 and using that resource to fund a fourth bus for the 359 and extend it into the estate over the 314 route and cutting the 314 back to the AVI? From my (albeit limited) experience of the 314, most people from the estate only use it to or from the AVI and these journeys could easily be done on an expanded 359
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when the service runs Daily and also covers the peaks. Looks like someone wasn't paying attention when they updated the map. 
