|
Post by wirewiper on Sept 12, 2022 12:31:39 GMT
So the Cannon Street rounders via Sidcup & Woolwich Arsenal are no more? What will replace those 2tph services on the Sidcup line, and also they are needed so we can get to Lewisham for the DLR. I’m personally annoyed as I often use the service to get to Erith with my bike so I can ride along the Thames to Greenwich. I think the Sidcup line will this pattern CX-Gravesend, fast to Hither Green then all stations, except Albany Park CX-Dartford, fast to Lewisham, all stations There will now be 2 rounders from the Bexleyheath line to the Woolwich line, apparently this is to improve links to the Elizabeth line which is pure nonsense, it’s much faster by bus from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood, and from Eltham to Woolwich, yet Medway and Gravesend STILL only get 2tph connection to Abbey Wood. In short this timetable is really really bad for everyone. The real problem with Southeastern is that the way the network has developed historically, there is no easy way of putting in simple cross-platform connections where they would be most useful. There are solutions, but they would be hugely expensive (a massive underground - small u - interchange at Lewisham, anyone?)
|
|
|
Post by Dillon95 on Sept 12, 2022 12:44:42 GMT
So the Cannon Street rounders via Sidcup & Woolwich Arsenal are no more? What will replace those 2tph services on the Sidcup line, and also they are needed so we can get to Lewisham for the DLR. I’m personally annoyed as I often use the service to get to Erith with my bike so I can ride along the Thames to Greenwich. I think the Sidcup line will this pattern CX-Gravesend, fast to Hither Green then all stations, except Albany Park CX-Dartford, fast to Lewisham, all stations There will now be 2 rounders from the Bexleyheath line to the Woolwich line, apparently this is to improve links to the Elizabeth line which is pure nonsense, it’s much faster by bus from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood, and from Eltham to Woolwich, yet Medway and Gravesend STILL only get 2tph connection to Abbey Wood. In short this timetable is really really bad for everyone. They are awful changes. No one in there right mind is going from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood or Woolwich by train. Plus the Sidcup line losing it’s connection to Cannon Street for the City is awful.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Sept 12, 2022 12:58:59 GMT
I think the Sidcup line will this pattern CX-Gravesend, fast to Hither Green then all stations, except Albany Park CX-Dartford, fast to Lewisham, all stations There will now be 2 rounders from the Bexleyheath line to the Woolwich line, apparently this is to improve links to the Elizabeth line which is pure nonsense, it’s much faster by bus from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood, and from Eltham to Woolwich, yet Medway and Gravesend STILL only get 2tph connection to Abbey Wood. In short this timetable is really really bad for everyone. They are awful changes. No one in there right mind is going from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood or Woolwich by train. Plus the Sidcup line losing it’s connection to Cannon Street for the City is awful. Interestingly the Sidcup line is set to get peak Blackfriars trains to Dartford, one wonders why this is, are they testing the ground for having Victoria trains to Sidcup permanently and keeping everything on the Blackheath side to Cannon Street. But yes it looks like a total disaster, everything on the Ladywel/Hither Green side loses Cannon Street and everything on the Blackheath side loses Charing Cross.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Sept 12, 2022 13:18:58 GMT
They are awful changes. No one in there right mind is going from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood or Woolwich by train. Plus the Sidcup line losing it’s connection to Cannon Street for the City is awful. Interestingly the Sidcup line is set to get peak Blackfriars trains to Dartford, one wonders why this is, are they testing the ground for having Victoria trains to Sidcup permanently and keeping everything on the Blackheath side to Cannon Street. But yes it looks like a total disaster, everything on the Ladywel/Hither Green side loses Cannon Street and everything on the Blackheath side loses Charing Cross. Hither Green will still have the Orpington to Cannon Street service which will no longer call at Lewisham although the Sevenoaks to Charing Cross service will, obviously done to reduce conflicting movements at Lewisham.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Sept 12, 2022 13:46:13 GMT
Interestingly the Sidcup line is set to get peak Blackfriars trains to Dartford, one wonders why this is, are they testing the ground for having Victoria trains to Sidcup permanently and keeping everything on the Blackheath side to Cannon Street. But yes it looks like a total disaster, everything on the Ladywel/Hither Green side loses Cannon Street and everything on the Blackheath side loses Charing Cross. Hither Green will still have the Orpington to Cannon Street service which will no longer call at Lewisham although the Sevenoaks to Charing Cross service will, obviously done to reduce conflicting movements at Lewisham. I forgot about the CS-Orpington service. It’s still a shoddy looking change though, doesn’t even reflect the demand east of Abbey Wood for the Lizzie line by increasing the TPH from Medway/Gravesend to Abbey Wood.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Sept 12, 2022 14:59:33 GMT
I think the Sidcup line will this pattern CX-Gravesend, fast to Hither Green then all stations, except Albany Park CX-Dartford, fast to Lewisham, all stations There will now be 2 rounders from the Bexleyheath line to the Woolwich line, apparently this is to improve links to the Elizabeth line which is pure nonsense, it’s much faster by bus from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood, and from Eltham to Woolwich, yet Medway and Gravesend STILL only get 2tph connection to Abbey Wood. In short this timetable is really really bad for everyone. They are awful changes. No one in there right mind is going from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood or Woolwich by train. Plus the Sidcup line losing it’s connection to Cannon Street for the City is awful. I agree nobody is likely to travel from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood for Crossrail, it would take about 25 minutes and they could be almost at London Bridge in that time travelling in the opposite direction.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Sept 12, 2022 15:38:36 GMT
Bexleyheath has the useful and quicker 301 bus to take them to Abbey Wood.
To be honest this seems very poorly thought out, a few users on the Railforums were saying it’s good that Bexleyheath and Woolwich lose CX trains, I pointed out to one user that these services are very popular and busy even post Lizzie line, but his only retort was that Woolwich now has a link to New Cross…….
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Sept 12, 2022 16:31:58 GMT
Bexleyheath has the useful and quicker 301 bus to take them to Abbey Wood. To be honest this seems very poorly thought out, a few users on the Railforums were saying it’s good that Bexleyheath and Woolwich lose CX trains, I pointed out to one user that these services are very popular and busy even post Lizzie line, but his only retort was that Woolwich now has a link to New Cross……. Woolwich to New Cross link? I appreciate that a lot of these changes aren't going to be popular but with such a complex network it's impossible to please everyone. I think Lewisham to Victoria deserves more than 2tph.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Sept 12, 2022 16:50:01 GMT
Bexleyheath has the useful and quicker 301 bus to take them to Abbey Wood. To be honest this seems very poorly thought out, a few users on the Railforums were saying it’s good that Bexleyheath and Woolwich lose CX trains, I pointed out to one user that these services are very popular and busy even post Lizzie line, but his only retort was that Woolwich now has a link to New Cross……. Woolwich to New Cross link? I appreciate that a lot of these changes aren't going to be popular but with such a complex network it's impossible to please everyone. I think Lewisham to Victoria deserves more than 2tph. He was implying that those trains may stop at New Cross, though I doubt it if they’re being proposed to run from Gravesend allegedly. Even after this the network will still be complex, if London Overground were to take over tomorrow it would still have a mess on it’s hands. Cannon Street is very off putting as a terminal, to get beyond that it would involve a tube journey, where as Charing Cross you literally walk off the train and into the West End. I don’t think 4tph Lewisham-Victoria will ever happen sadly.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 12, 2022 19:40:13 GMT
So the Cannon Street rounders via Sidcup & Woolwich Arsenal are no more? What will replace those 2tph services on the Sidcup line, and also they are needed so we can get to Lewisham for the DLR. I’m personally annoyed as I often use the service to get to Erith with my bike so I can ride along the Thames to Greenwich. I think the Sidcup line will this pattern CX-Gravesend, fast to Hither Green then all stations, except Albany Park CX-Dartford, fast to Lewisham, all stations There will now be 2 rounders from the Bexleyheath line to the Woolwich line, apparently this is to improve links to the Elizabeth line which is pure nonsense, it’s much faster by bus from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood, and from Eltham to Woolwich, yet Medway and Gravesend STILL only get 2tph connection to Abbey Wood. In short this timetable is really really bad for everyone. Out of interest, any changes you know about for services stopping at Lewisham from Victoria and the Victoria to Orpington service?
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Sept 12, 2022 19:50:35 GMT
I think the Sidcup line will this pattern CX-Gravesend, fast to Hither Green then all stations, except Albany Park CX-Dartford, fast to Lewisham, all stations There will now be 2 rounders from the Bexleyheath line to the Woolwich line, apparently this is to improve links to the Elizabeth line which is pure nonsense, it’s much faster by bus from Bexleyheath to Abbey Wood, and from Eltham to Woolwich, yet Medway and Gravesend STILL only get 2tph connection to Abbey Wood. In short this timetable is really really bad for everyone. Out of interest, any changes you know about for services stopping at Lewisham from Victoria and the Victoria to Orpington service? The Vic-Dartford service via Bexleyheath will remain for the time being, I reckon the peak Blackfriars-Sidcup-Dartford trains are a forerunner to diverting the Vic-Dartfords to the Sidcup line permanently, it’s quite telling that the only West End service remaining in the Blackheath side is this service. The Vic-Orpingtons will I think be 2tph until about 2pm when it’s increased to 4tph
|
|
|
Post by 700101 on Sept 12, 2022 20:45:04 GMT
Be aware that lots of services are still yet to be uploaded as seen on realtimetrains there are big big gaps should hopefully be all up by end of the week
|
|
|
Post by buspete on Sept 12, 2022 20:51:19 GMT
At present there are 2tph on the Bexleyheath line and 2tph on the Woolwich Lines to Charing Cross, call me dim but I would like to say these seem to me to work quite well.
The Bexleyheath Line also had 2tph off peak to Cannon Street these have since been axed and no signs of returning.
I live in Bexleyheath, but glad to say the Elizabeth Line is a revelation for me.
This will call outrage with residents.
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Sept 12, 2022 21:46:48 GMT
Be aware that lots of services are still yet to be uploaded as seen on realtimetrains there are big big gaps should hopefully be all up by end of the week From what I can gather it doesn’t look good for the Woolwich and Bexleyheath lines
|
|
|
Post by route53 on Sept 12, 2022 21:51:09 GMT
At present there are 2tph on the Bexleyheath line and 2tph on the Woolwich Lines to Charing Cross, call me dim but I would like to say these seem to me to work quite well. The Bexleyheath Line also had 2tph off peak to Cannon Street these have since been axed and no signs of returning. I live in Bexleyheath, but glad to say the Elizabeth Line is a revelation for me. This will call outrage with residents. There is also the Victoria service via Bexleyheath, which makes the crossovers at Lewisham from Blackheath 6tph, and there hasn’t been any issues recently. I get there is a need to remove the conflicts at Lewisham but I think this hasn’t been properly thought out.
|
|