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Post by snoggle on Jun 9, 2015 16:45:31 GMT
I am reminded of Paul Hardcastle's number one hit " Nineteen" (or more like Ni Ni Ni Nineteen) when I think of South East London's operators. These days it's all "Go Go Go Go Ahead London" or "St St St Stagecoach Selkent"  Arriva are more like "De de de Departing" following the recent onslaught from the "Agony of Abellio".  I wouldn't call in the US Bomber Squadrons in SE London to flatten the bus network but we do have some really serious problems due to population growth, housing concentration in Thamesmead and a relatively poor rail network that doesn't serve inner areas terribly well. There are massive concentrations of services in Lewisham (currently resembling a war zone), Woolwich, Bexleyheath, Bromley and Croydon. On second thoughts perhaps we do need a small explosion in "Ca Ca Ca Ca Catford".  Railheading to the tube creates its own nightmares at North Greenwich and Brixton with never ending flows of people skewing demand on many routes and leading to long dwell times and slow journeys. This isn't the bus network's fault - it just has to do a job that it's not best designed for. You wouldn't set out to design things like this if you were starting again. Never mind the 800,000 referred to in Mr Hardcastle's song - it sometimes feels like they are all waiting for a bus at North Greenwich at 1700 on a workday.  I think SE London needs some extra trunk route links and ideally more routes that are designed to cross town centres rather than terminate in them. I do like the fact that places like Orpington and Biggin Hill are decently provided for in terms of their local buses - far too easy for these places to be given minimal services. I remain surprised, though, that a journey like Orpington to Bexleyheath is only catered for by a minibus route (B14) rather than something more substantial. I also think that we need a few more "round the corner" type routes to infill the network in areas which tend to have perhaps one trunk route. As we have discussed many, many times on here there are glaring network gaps which can and should be filled. There are perhaps too many low bridges which spoil the options for double decking but more full length single deckers would help. Some decent bus priority and enforcement would also help in certain places in getting the buses through the appalling traffic conditions. The advent of Crossrail brings opportunities but also possible nightmares. Who's to say that Abbey Wood won't drown under the weight of commuters cars parking in every available space and blocking the roads and bus stops while people "kiss and ride"? Quite a challenge ahead to get a really effective, properly focussed bus network that can get people to and from Crossrail quickly and in comfort. |
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Post by Connor on Jun 9, 2015 17:33:00 GMT
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jun 9, 2015 20:26:08 GMT
Unlike with buses in the West, I can't comment too much on buses in SE London though one crucial point I would like to make is that Orpington has issues with night buses (or rather lack of) there's only one bus at night (the N47, soon to be the N199) and I believe that for such a big area, even on the outer extremities of the Greater London area there should be at least two or three more night services. I'd elect the 51 and 358 for 24 hour conversion as well as extending the N119 to Orpington to link up Croydon at night. By contrast, Romford has four (N15, N86, (N)128 and (N)365) and Kingston has a staggering eight ((N)57, N65, (N)85, N87, (N)111, (N)213, (N)281 and (N)285) and both areas are in Zone 6.
Much of the activity is centred on the two main DLR hubs and one Tube hub of North Greenwich, Lewisham and Woolwich. There is heavy dependency on NR services here (hint my username), due to the deficit of Underground services here though with both Crossrail and the planned extension of the Bakerloo line. This then translate into heavy bus usage in the area.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jun 9, 2015 20:37:57 GMT
Unlike with buses in the West, I can't comment too much on buses in SE London though one crucial point I would like to make is that Orpington has issues with night buses (or rather lack of) there's only one bus at night (the N47, soon to be the N199) and I believe that for such a big area, even on the outer extremities of the Greater London area there should be at least two or three more night services. I'd elect the 51 and 358 for 24 hour conversion as well as extending the N119 to Orpington to link up Croydon at night. By contrast, Romford has four (N15, N86, (N)128 and (N)365) and Kingston has a staggering eight ((N)57, N65, (N)85, N87, (N)111, (N)213, (N)281 and (N)285) and both areas are in Zone 6. Much of the activity is centred on the two main DLR hubs and one Tube hub of North Greenwich, Lewisham and Woolwich. There is heavy dependency on NR services here (hint my username), due to the deficit of Underground services here though with both Crossrail and the planned extension of the Bakerloo line. This then translate into heavy bus usage in the area. Is there anything going on in Orpington at night to justify the provision of more buses? Kingston and Romford have thriving night economies. |
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Post by jay38a on Jun 9, 2015 21:37:53 GMT
Unlike with buses in the West, I can't comment too much on buses in SE London though one crucial point I would like to make is that Orpington has issues with night buses (or rather lack of) there's only one bus at night (the N47, soon to be the N199) and I believe that for such a big area, even on the outer extremities of the Greater London area there should be at least two or three more night services. I'd elect the 51 and 358 for 24 hour conversion as well as extending the N119 to Orpington to link up Croydon at night. By contrast, Romford has four (N15, N86, (N)128 and (N)365) and Kingston has a staggering eight ((N)57, N65, (N)85, N87, (N)111, (N)213, (N)281 and (N)285) and both areas are in Zone 6. Much of the activity is centred on the two main DLR hubs and one Tube hub of North Greenwich, Lewisham and Woolwich. There is heavy dependency on NR services here (hint my username), due to the deficit of Underground services here though with both Crossrail and the planned extension of the Bakerloo line. This then translate into heavy bus usage in the area. Is there anything going on in Orpington at night to justify the provision of more buses? Kingston and Romford have thriving night economies. All the R routes in the evening no matter what day it is after 9am go dead even the 51, 61, 208 and 358 do, so I'd say nope. |
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Post by sid on Jun 10, 2015 6:48:04 GMT
Is there anything going on in Orpington at night to justify the provision of more buses? Kingston and Romford have thriving night economies. All the R routes in the evening no matter what day it is after 9am go dead even the 51, 61, 208 and 358 do, so I'd say nope. I think you meant 9pm lol, yes not much night life in Orpington although I think the N47 could be extended to Sidcup and maybe alternate journeys rerouted via PRU hospital? |
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 10, 2015 7:54:46 GMT
All the R routes in the evening no matter what day it is after 9am go dead even the 51, 61, 208 and 358 do, so I'd say nope. I think you meant 9pm lol, yes not much night life in Orpington although I think the N47 could be extended to Sidcup and maybe alternate journeys rerouted via PRU hospital? The N47 is to become the N199 anyways. It does not need to go to Sidcup as the route will be going back on itself and more lengthy. No point in them going via PRH because then certain trips will be lost between Bromley Common Via Petts Wood... Sidcup already have the 321 and Sidcup is dead... |
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Post by Paul on Jun 10, 2015 7:55:54 GMT
All the R routes in the evening no matter what day it is after 9am go dead even the 51, 61, 208 and 358 do, so I'd say nope. I think you meant 9pm lol, yes not much night life in Orpington although I think the N47 could be extended to Sidcup and maybe alternate journeys rerouted via PRU hospital? Don't think TfL would go for alternate journeys idea. Maybe extend the N119 down to the PRU? Or make the 358 a 24hr route and at night have it twirl around the hospital grounds? |
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 10, 2015 7:59:35 GMT
I think you meant 9pm lol, yes not much night life in Orpington although I think the N47 could be extended to Sidcup and maybe alternate journeys rerouted via PRU hospital? Don't think TfL would go for alternate journeys idea. Maybe extend the N119 down to the PRU? Or make the 358 a 24hr route and at night have it twirl around the hospital grounds? What does surprise me is there is no Night Service Passing Bromley Garage. I've suggested a 24 Hour 358 before, but at the very least Hourly Service. |
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Post by sid on Jun 10, 2015 8:04:43 GMT
I think you meant 9pm lol, yes not much night life in Orpington although I think the N47 could be extended to Sidcup and maybe alternate journeys rerouted via PRU hospital? The N47 is to become the N199 anyways. It does not need to go to Sidcup as the route will be going back on itself and more lengthy. No point in them going via PRH because then certain trips will be lost between Bromley Common Via Petts Wood... Sidcup already have the 321 and Sidcup is dead... I know about the N199 but I think it should go to Sidcup, it's only down the road from St Mary Cray and also offers a connection to the 321 |
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Post by sid on Jun 10, 2015 8:10:29 GMT
I think you meant 9pm lol, yes not much night life in Orpington although I think the N47 could be extended to Sidcup and maybe alternate journeys rerouted via PRU hospital? Don't think TfL would go for alternate journeys idea. Maybe extend the N119 down to the PRU? Or make the 358 a 24hr route and at night have it twirl around the hospital grounds? No TfL like everything neat and tidy so alternative journeys via PRU would no doubt be frowned upon. I'm not sure anymore night buses down the A21 south of Bromley could be justified and if the 358 became 24 hour it would surely spell the end of the N3 between Crystal Palace and Bromley? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 8:12:07 GMT
The N47 is to become the N199 anyways. It does not need to go to Sidcup as the route will be going back on itself and more lengthy. No point in them going via PRH because then certain trips will be lost between Bromley Common Via Petts Wood... Sidcup already have the 321 and Sidcup is dead... I know about the N199 but I think it should go to Sidcup, it's only down the road from St Mary Cray and also offers a connection to the 321 Sidcup does not warrant another 24 hour / N route 321 route also stops within what I'd consider the main area; on the High St, Station Road and not at all far from Queen Mary's |
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Post by sid on Jun 10, 2015 8:19:52 GMT
I know about the N199 but I think it should go to Sidcup, it's only down the road from St Mary Cray and also offers a connection to the 321 Sidcup does not warrant another 24 hour / N route 321 route also stops within what I'd consider the main area; on the High St, Station Road and not at all far from Queen Mary's Looking at the bigger picture it is an extension of 5-10minutes that will make a lot more journeys possible. For example at the moment if you wanted to go from Orpington to Eltham at night it would mean going via Lewisham. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 8:35:40 GMT
Sidcup does not warrant another 24 hour / N route 321 route also stops within what I'd consider the main area; on the High St, Station Road and not at all far from Queen Mary's Looking at the bigger picture it is an extension of 5-10minutes that will make a lot more journeys possible. For example at the moment if you wanted to go from Orpington to Eltham at night it would mean going via Lewisham. I grant you there really is only one 24 hour / N route in the area, but I honestly don't see this changing in the near future specially considering the ongoing consultation that mentions nothing of Sidcup 321 ticks a lot of boxes for TFL |
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 10, 2015 9:27:33 GMT
Sidcup does not warrant another 24 hour / N route 321 route also stops within what I'd consider the main area; on the High St, Station Road and not at all far from Queen Mary's Looking at the bigger picture it is an extension of 5-10minutes that will make a lot more journeys possible. For example at the moment if you wanted to go from Orpington to Eltham at night it would mean going via Lewisham. Then so it has do be done... . The closer you get to Central London, the more Night Routes you come across going to other places... Just think of it as taking the Mainline Railways... There does not need to be a Night Route to everywhere... Sidcup is dead. The N136 goes to Chislehurst, it actually carries little amounts of passengers between Grove Park & Chislehurst... Chislehurst is dead. |
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Arriva are more like "De de de Departing" following the recent onslaught from the "Agony of Abellio". 
