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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 8:47:55 GMT
Wonder if any buses will be extended in Lewisham when the Lewisham Gateway project is finished The Lewisham Gateway project is not all that tbh. If a Westfield Shopping Centre was being built I would imagine TFL would be planning anything possible to terminate there lol, probably even the P13 lol. The only thing I would be more than happy to see is a new Route 218: Bromley Common, Crown Lane - North Greenwich assisting the 108 & 208s high demand and the 320 withdrawn to Bromley North. So therefore buses like 353 and 54 which shouldn't even been cut from Croydon should be extended back due to them going to start re-building Whitgift Centre into Westfield in 2016 and finish in 2019  I know they are planning to do changes with trams in Croydon but still and I can't even remember them doing any changes in Shepherds Bush except for buses being diverted to White City and Stratford was more of a whole new neighbourhood being created around the olympic stadium/village and Westfield but I think that was due to the area being not served directly rather than the Shopping Centre itself. I agree with your 218 though but traffic may be an issue. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 10:41:39 GMT
I have yet to be convinced there is a case for any change beyond "large place x should be linked with large place y because they are both large". If anything, I'd be interested to wait & see what adjustments are made in light of Crossrail. I'd certainly like to see the 244 double-decked (already one of the most heavily used SD routes in London) and then some firmer links for those in the south of Bexley to North Greenwich which are already well used in times of Southeastern meltdown (common enough). What firmer links were you thinking of |
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Post by bengady3 on Jun 13, 2015 12:29:49 GMT
The changes I would propose are:
356: Increased frequency to 4bph on morning and evening peak
218: A new route I agree should be introduced from other forum posts and return the 320 to Bromley
291: It could have a frequency increase but im not sure because I usually see it packed at Woolwich
129: Extended to a major area like Peckham,Lewisham or Camberwell
374: A new route Bellingham Bus Garage to Bermondsey via Catford,Forest Hill,Honor Oak,Frendsbury Road,New Cross,Old Kent Road,South Bermondsey,Rotherhithe
P4: Could do with a Double Decker Conversion and maybe renumbering
432: Extended to Elmers End
417: Extended to Lower Sydenham or Brockley Rise
208: Something needs to be done
108: Converted to 12m single deckers
352,354: Sunday Service Intorduced 2bph
351: New Route Lower Sydenham to Eltham via Southend Lane,Whitefoot Lane,St Mildreds Road,Westhorne Avenue,Eltham Mon-Sun 3bph
363: Extended to Whitehall, Horse Guards
437: New Route East Dulwich to Charlton via Peckham,New Cross,Lewisham,Lee,Blackheath,The Village
54: To return to serve Croydon
239: New Route Plaistow to Deptford via Canning Town,Blackwall Tunnel,Greenwich
There are loads more proposals I would suggest
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2015 14:43:12 GMT
The changes I would propose are: 356: Increased frequency to 4bph on morning and evening peak 218: A new route I agree should be introduced from other forum posts and return the 320 to Bromley 291: It could have a frequency increase but im not sure because I usually see it packed at Woolwich 129: Extended to a major area like Peckham,Lewisham or Camberwell 374: A new route Bellingham Bus Garage to Bermondsey via Catford,Forest Hill,Honor Oak,Frendsbury Road,New Cross,Old Kent Road,South Bermondsey,Rotherhithe P4: Could do with a Double Decker Conversion and maybe renumbering 432: Extended to Elmers End 417: Extended to Lower Sydenham or Brockley Rise 208: Something needs to be done 108: Converted to 12m single deckers 352,354: Sunday Service Intorduced 2bph 351: New Route Lower Sydenham to Eltham via Southend Lane,Whitefoot Lane,St Mildreds Road,Westhorne Avenue,Eltham Mon-Sun 3bph 363: Extended to Whitehall, Horse Guards 437: New Route East Dulwich to Charlton via Peckham,New Cross,Lewisham,Lee,Blackheath,The Village 54: To return to serve Croydon 239: New Route Plaistow to Deptford via Canning Town,Blackwall Tunnel,Greenwich There are loads more proposals I would suggest 291 is always absolutely overloaded I concur 129 and 54, I cannot see changing despite all of the calls for it to be changed Lewisham and Peckham that you propose to extend 129 to are already served by established routes 180 and 177 but I do see why you'd want to do something with the 129 Would you propose the 351 terminate at Eltham Station? Why the link with Lower Sydenham? 352 covers the route; Lower Sydenham Savacentre - New Beckenham - Beckenham - Park Langley - Hayesford Park - Bromley, and many buses from Bromley go to Eltham (162, 314) |
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Post by sid on Jun 13, 2015 16:31:01 GMT
The changes I would propose are: 356: Increased frequency to 4bph on morning and evening peak 218: A new route I agree should be introduced from other forum posts and return the 320 to Bromley 291: It could have a frequency increase but im not sure because I usually see it packed at Woolwich 129: Extended to a major area like Peckham,Lewisham or Camberwell 374: A new route Bellingham Bus Garage to Bermondsey via Catford,Forest Hill,Honor Oak,Frendsbury Road,New Cross,Old Kent Road,South Bermondsey,Rotherhithe P4: Could do with a Double Decker Conversion and maybe renumbering 432: Extended to Elmers End 417: Extended to Lower Sydenham or Brockley Rise 208: Something needs to be done 108: Converted to 12m single deckers 352,354: Sunday Service 2bph 351: New Route Lower Sydenham to Eltham via Southend Lane,Whitefoot Lane,St Mildreds Road,Westhorne Avenue,Eltham Mon-Sun 3bph 363: Extended to Whitehall, Horse Guards 437: New Route East Dulwich to Charlton via Peckham,New Cross,Lewisham,Lee,Blackheath,The Village 54: To return to serve Croydon 239: New Route Plaistow to Deptford via Canning Town,Blackwall Tunnel,Greenwich There are loads more proposals I would suggest I would replace the 356 with changes to other routes, extend the 432 beyond Elmers End to Shirley and onto Shrublands giving that area some new links. Reroute the 354 via Wheathill Road and extend it from Penge to Lower Sydenham replacing that part of the 356. I like your 351 idea and I'd extend that beyond Lower Sydenham to Sydenham Hill. I can see the logic in the 218 but I'd be reluctant to put anymore buses into Lewisham. I wouldn't disagree about the 291, not really sure where the 129 should go, it seems to be a solution looking for a problem. The 374 could be useful but I think the 171 and 185 are adequate between Forest Hill and Catford. I'd certainly agree about the P4, maybe extend the 417 to Penge if the Crooked Billet stand is vacated by the 354? I think the 208 is ok as it is, it just deserves something better than the 320 to support it. The 108 certainly deserves bigger buses as do the 352 and 354 a Sunday service. Not sure about the 437, again it's putting more buses into the congestion of Lewisham although the Blackwall Tunnel deserves another service |
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 6:39:44 GMT
I would replace the 356 with changes to other routes, extend the 432 beyond Elmers End to Shirley and onto Shrublands giving that area some new links. Reroute the 354 via Wheathill Road and extend it from Penge to Lower Sydenham replacing that part of the 356. I like your 351 idea and I'd extend that beyond Lower Sydenham to Sydenham Hill. I can see the logic in the 218 but I'd be reluctant to put anymore buses into Lewisham. I wouldn't disagree about the 291, not really sure where the 129 should go, it seems to be a solution looking for a problem. The 374 could be useful but I think the 171 and 185 are adequate between Forest Hill and Catford. I'd certainly agree about the P4, maybe extend the 417 to Penge if the Crooked Billet stand is vacated by the 354? I think the 208 is ok as it is, it just deserves something better than the 320 to support it. The 108 certainly deserves bigger buses as do the 352 and 354 a Sunday service. Not sure about the 437, again it's putting more buses into the congestion of Lewisham although the Blackwall Tunnel deserves another service The 356 needs no change it is fine as it is... You say that about nearly every route! The 356 doesn't really go anywhere, ie any major town centres. |
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 14, 2015 6:41:17 GMT
The changes I would propose are: 356: Increased frequency to 4bph on morning and evening peak 218: A new route I agree should be introduced from other forum posts and return the 320 to Bromley 291: It could have a frequency increase but im not sure because I usually see it packed at Woolwich 129: Extended to a major area like Peckham,Lewisham or Camberwell 374: A new route Bellingham Bus Garage to Bermondsey via Catford,Forest Hill,Honor Oak,Frendsbury Road,New Cross,Old Kent Road,South Bermondsey,Rotherhithe P4: Could do with a Double Decker Conversion and maybe renumbering 432: Extended to Elmers End 417: Extended to Lower Sydenham or Brockley Rise 208: Something needs to be done 108: Converted to 12m single deckers 352,354: Sunday Service 2bph 351: New Route Lower Sydenham to Eltham via Southend Lane,Whitefoot Lane,St Mildreds Road,Westhorne Avenue,Eltham Mon-Sun 3bph 363: Extended to Whitehall, Horse Guards 437: New Route East Dulwich to Charlton via Peckham,New Cross,Lewisham,Lee,Blackheath,The Village 54: To return to serve Croydon 239: New Route Plaistow to Deptford via Canning Town,Blackwall Tunnel,Greenwich There are loads more proposals I would suggest I would replace the 356 with changes to other routes, extend the 432 beyond Elmers End to Shirley and onto Shrublands giving that area some new links. Reroute the 354 via Wheathill Road and extend it from Penge to Lower Sydenham replacing that part of the 356. I like your 351 idea and I'd extend that beyond Lower Sydenham to Sydenham Hill. I can see the logic in the 218 but I'd be reluctant to put anymore buses into Lewisham. I wouldn't disagree about the 291, not really sure where the 129 should go, it seems to be a solution looking for a problem. The 374 could be useful but I think the 171 and 185 are adequate between Forest Hill and Catford. I'd certainly agree about the P4, maybe extend the 417 to Penge if the Crooked Billet stand is vacated by the 354? I think the 208 is ok as it is, it just deserves something better than the 320 to support it. The 108 certainly deserves bigger buses as do the 352 and 354 a Sunday service. Not sure about the 437, again it's putting more buses into the congestion of Lewisham although the Blackwall Tunnel deserves another service What is wrong with the 356? You have suggested many times to get rid of the route, there is nothing wrong with the route and it does not need to be withdrawn. As has been said before routes like that may not be seen as beneficial by some, but to the locals it may just be better for them. |
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 6:56:20 GMT
I would replace the 356 with changes to other routes, extend the 432 beyond Elmers End to Shirley and onto Shrublands giving that area some new links. Reroute the 354 via Wheathill Road and extend it from Penge to Lower Sydenham replacing that part of the 356. I like your 351 idea and I'd extend that beyond Lower Sydenham to Sydenham Hill. I can see the logic in the 218 but I'd be reluctant to put anymore buses into Lewisham. I wouldn't disagree about the 291, not really sure where the 129 should go, it seems to be a solution looking for a problem. The 374 could be useful but I think the 171 and 185 are adequate between Forest Hill and Catford. I'd certainly agree about the P4, maybe extend the 417 to Penge if the Crooked Billet stand is vacated by the 354? I think the 208 is ok as it is, it just deserves something better than the 320 to support it. The 108 certainly deserves bigger buses as do the 352 and 354 a Sunday service. Not sure about the 437, again it's putting more buses into the congestion of Lewisham although the Blackwall Tunnel deserves another service What is wrong with the 356? You have suggested many times to get rid of the route, there is nothing wrong with the route and it does not need to be withdrawn. As has been said before routes like that may not be seen as beneficial by some, but to the locals it may just be better for them. There may be nothing wrong with it but that doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. For example extending the 432 to Shirley would give links to Crystal Palace, West Norwood, Brixton etc, the 194 provides an alternative link to Penge and Sydenham |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 14, 2015 7:52:07 GMT
The 356 needs no change it is fine as it is... You say that about nearly every route! The 356 doesn't really go anywhere, ie any major town centres. Still manages to carry over 1m pass jnys pa going "nowhere" and has increased patronage by 143% over 12 years. Not every route has to serve a town centre to be effective although given London's density many will do anyway. Just double checking [1] the 356 serves the "nowhere" areas of Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge and Elmers End and links with tram and rail services. Doesn't look too useless to me. [1] I have yet to ride on the 356 so don't have personal experience of it. |
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 8:12:29 GMT
You say that about nearly every route! The 356 doesn't really go anywhere, ie any major town centres. Still manages to carry over 1m pass jnys pa going "nowhere" and has increased patronage by 143% over 12 years. Not every route has to serve a town centre to be effective although given London's density many will do anyway. Just double checking [1] the 356 serves the "nowhere" areas of Forest Hill, Sydenham, Penge and Elmers End and links with tram and rail services. Doesn't look too useless to me. [1] I have yet to ride on the 356 so don't have personal experience of it. Who said the 356 was useless? I repeat, there is always room for improvement. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 14, 2015 10:29:42 GMT
Considering the lack of tube links etc. , the SE London network isn't really at all bad. My set of improvements aren't nearly as wide ranging as bengady3's, but here goes...
51 : M-F peaks - extra journeys.
54 : extension to Croydon over its original route.
89 : Sunday frequency up to 15 minutes daytime.
108 : upgrade to 12m single decks.
202 : onwards to North Greenwich via 108.
244, 286 : double deck conversions.
401 : extension to Darent Valley Hospital via Bexley, Coldblow, Dartford Heath and Princes Road.
428 : extension to Abbey Wood Station via 99 and Knee Hill once Crossrail opens : links Crayford, Slade Green and Upper Belvedere to the new railway. Upgrade to double deck at the same time.
469 : extension to Crayford via Northend Road, Perry Street and route 492. Mainly to link Victoria Scott Court to the large Sainsburys at Crayford or the shops at Erith.
492 : up to every 20 mins Mon-Sat daytime, to every 30 mins each evening. Has been asked for by locals for years and years...
B14 : double run it into Tesco Foots Cray like the R11.
I think there are possibly some other routes that could be looked at, notably 188, 199, 208, 320, but they very much come under 'nice to have if possible', so I won't list here.
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 10:55:10 GMT
Considering the lack of tube links etc. , the SE London network isn't really at all bad. My set of improvements aren't nearly as wide ranging as bengady3's, but here goes... 51 : M-F peaks - extra journeys. 54 : extension to Croydon over its original route. 89 : Sunday frequency up to 15 minutes daytime. 108 : upgrade to 12m single decks. 202 : onwards to North Greenwich via 108. 244, 286 : double deck conversions. 401 : extension to Darent Valley Hospital via Bexley, Coldblow, Dartford Heath and Princes Road. 428 : extension to Abbey Wood Station via 99 and Knee Hill once Crossrail opens : links Crayford, Slade Green and Upper Belvedere to the new railway. Upgrade to double deck at the same time. 469 : extension to Crayford via Northend Road, Perry Street and route 492. Mainly to link Victoria Scott Court to the large Sainsburys at Crayford or the shops at Erith. 492 : up to every 20 mins Mon-Sat daytime, to every 30 mins each evening. Has been asked for by locals for years and years... B14 : double run it into Tesco Foots Cray like the R11. I think there are possibly some other routes that could be looked at, notably 188, 199, 208, 320, but they very much come under 'nice to have if possible', so I won't list here. I certainly wouldn't disagree with any of these ideas, all very useful. I hadn't realised until I needed to get an 89 one Sunday quite recently that it was only every 20 minutes which is ridiculous during shopping hours when surely demand is much the same as on a Saturday? I think I would up it to every 12 minutes same as the 486. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 12:14:10 GMT
Considering the lack of tube links etc. , the SE London network isn't really at all bad. My set of improvements aren't nearly as wide ranging as bengady3's, but here goes... 51 : M-F peaks - extra journeys. 54 : extension to Croydon over its original route. 89 : Sunday frequency up to 15 minutes daytime. 108 : upgrade to 12m single decks. 202 : onwards to North Greenwich via 108. 244, 286 : double deck conversions. 401 : extension to Darent Valley Hospital via Bexley, Coldblow, Dartford Heath and Princes Road. 428 : extension to Abbey Wood Station via 99 and Knee Hill once Crossrail opens : links Crayford, Slade Green and Upper Belvedere to the new railway. Upgrade to double deck at the same time. 469 : extension to Crayford via Northend Road, Perry Street and route 492. Mainly to link Victoria Scott Court to the large Sainsburys at Crayford or the shops at Erith. 492 : up to every 20 mins Mon-Sat daytime, to every 30 mins each evening. Has been asked for by locals for years and years... B14 : double run it into Tesco Foots Cray like the R11. I think there are possibly some other routes that could be looked at, notably 188, 199, 208, 320, but they very much come under 'nice to have if possible', so I won't list here. 51 has grown consistently over the years and being a regular user, it seems to be a very popular trunk route (particularly from Woolwich, Calderwood St - Plumstead Common / Bassant Road and from Welling Station. I support your idea  286 does not need a double-deck conversion and there is nothing more to say about that Extending the 401 & 469 that far, despite calls for more bus services to DV Hospital, would seem unnecessary without majorly changing the whole route. I am doubtful anyone on the 401 (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath) uses DV as their local Hospital, while the 469 takes passengers to Queen Elizabeth Hospital which we can therefore assume is these passenger's local hospital service. I guess TFL would have to measure who uses DV Hospital and make changes from there I would not advise extending any route via the 492 route either. What a horrible route  492 is never busy when I get on it and therefore a frequency increase also seems unnecessary B14 does not need to be double run anywhere. This is another route that needs no changes |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 14, 2015 12:27:33 GMT
Considering the lack of tube links etc. , the SE London network isn't really at all bad. My set of improvements aren't nearly as wide ranging as bengady3's, but here goes... 51 : M-F peaks - extra journeys. 54 : extension to Croydon over its original route. 89 : Sunday frequency up to 15 minutes daytime. 108 : upgrade to 12m single decks. 202 : onwards to North Greenwich via 108. 244, 286 : double deck conversions. 401 : extension to Darent Valley Hospital via Bexley, Coldblow, Dartford Heath and Princes Road. 428 : extension to Abbey Wood Station via 99 and Knee Hill once Crossrail opens : links Crayford, Slade Green and Upper Belvedere to the new railway. Upgrade to double deck at the same time. 469 : extension to Crayford via Northend Road, Perry Street and route 492. Mainly to link Victoria Scott Court to the large Sainsburys at Crayford or the shops at Erith. 492 : up to every 20 mins Mon-Sat daytime, to every 30 mins each evening. Has been asked for by locals for years and years... B14 : double run it into Tesco Foots Cray like the R11. I think there are possibly some other routes that could be looked at, notably 188, 199, 208, 320, but they very much come under 'nice to have if possible', so I won't list here. A good set of sensible changes - only one I don't support is the 54 extension to Croydon which I'm guessing you'd only implement after the Lewisham works are finished. I'm yet to be convinced it could run reliably in that form. |
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 15:58:06 GMT
Considering the lack of tube links etc. , the SE London network isn't really at all bad. My set of improvements aren't nearly as wide ranging as bengady3's, but here goes... 51 : M-F peaks - extra journeys. 54 : extension to Croydon over its original route. 89 : Sunday frequency up to 15 minutes daytime. 108 : upgrade to 12m single decks. 202 : onwards to North Greenwich via 108. 244, 286 : double deck conversions. 401 : extension to Darent Valley Hospital via Bexley, Coldblow, Dartford Heath and Princes Road. 428 : extension to Abbey Wood Station via 99 and Knee Hill once Crossrail opens : links Crayford, Slade Green and Upper Belvedere to the new railway. Upgrade to double deck at the same time. 469 : extension to Crayford via Northend Road, Perry Street and route 492. Mainly to link Victoria Scott Court to the large Sainsburys at Crayford or the shops at Erith. 492 : up to every 20 mins Mon-Sat daytime, to every 30 mins each evening. Has been asked for by locals for years and years... B14 : double run it into Tesco Foots Cray like the R11. I think there are possibly some other routes that could be looked at, notably 188, 199, 208, 320, but they very much come under 'nice to have if possible', so I won't list here. 51 has grown consistently over the years and being a regular user, it seems to be a very popular trunk route (particularly from Woolwich, Calderwood St - Plumstead Common / Bassant Road and from Welling Station. I support your idea 286 does not need a double-deck conversion and there is nothing more to say about that Extending the 401 & 469 that far, despite calls for more bus services to DV Hospital, would seem unnecessary without majorly changing the whole route. I am doubtful anyone on the 401 (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath) uses DV as their local Hospital, while the 469 takes passengers to Queen Elizabeth Hospital which we can therefore assume is these passenger's local hospital service. I guess TFL would have to measure who uses DV Hospital and make changes from there I would not advise extending any route via the 492 route either. What a horrible route 492 is never busy when I get on it and therefore a frequency increase also seems unnecessary B14 does not need to be double run anywhere. This is another route that needs no changes Why do you think the 286 doesn't need double deckers? I don't know how or why you have concluded that the B14 doesn't need to do a double run to Tesco, do users of the route shop elsewhere? |
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