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Post by thesquirrels on Jun 14, 2015 22:01:50 GMT
B14 GOES TO BEXLEYHEATH SHOPPING CENTRE... There happens to be a ginormous ASDA there. Go figure!!!!!  I know  I figured though that residents of the St. Paul's Cray Estate are far more likely to do their daily shop in Foots Cray rather than sit on a bus that goes via much of South Bexley to get to Bexleyheath... I've lived in the Bexleyheath area all my life. I was born in the area, grew up in the area, and still live in the area. I'm old enough to remember the old ABC cinema on the site of the current ASDA. This is a topic I know pretty well : I will always avoid talking about things I know little about. How some of you can tell the difference between Voith and ZF transmissions seriously impresses me, and I supposedly did a music degree which involves an awful lot of listening... Dangeorusly niche crossover there, bus engine transmissions and the pursuit of music within an educational context. It is something I have thought about. I take an interest in one and have friends deeply rooted in the other, I've yet to broach the topic. A good engine thrash is on a par with some of the nights I've been out on in terms of synapse firings. It doesn't merit an explanation. I'd hazard on the burgers of St. Paul's Cray going to Sidcup Tesco out of habit but Orpington Tesco does exist as an alternative in these enlightened times. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 23:24:53 GMT
B14 GOES TO BEXLEYHEATH SHOPPING CENTRE... There happens to be a ginormous ASDA there. Go figure!!!!! I know I figured though that residents of the St. Paul's Cray Estate are far more likely to do their daily shop in Foots Cray rather than sit on a bus that goes via much of South Bexley to get to Bexleyheath... I've lived in the Bexleyheath area all my life. I was born in the area, grew up in the area, and still live in the area. I'm old enough to remember the old ABC cinema on the site of the current ASDA. This is a topic I know pretty well : I will always avoid talking about things I know little about. How some of you can tell the difference between Voith and ZF transmissions seriously impresses me, and I supposedly did a music degree which involves an awful lot of listening... Your idea to double run it via Foots Cray Tesco is somewhat plausible I grant you but I just don't see it happening. You do know there is a Tesco Express on Orpington High St just between Walnuts Centre and Tubbenden Ln right? Supermarkets are coming up everywhere and I really don't think TFL can start catering for individual shopping preferences and start diverting buses to serve every single supermarket within an area. As you say, B14 runs via a somewhat unusual South Bexley routing to get to its Bexleyheath Shopping Centre anyway so this double run while easily accessible via Ruxley Roundabout would just add unnecessary time. Not forgetting R11 runs to Foots Cray Tesco... |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 15, 2015 0:01:23 GMT
I know I figured though that residents of the St. Paul's Cray Estate are far more likely to do their daily shop in Foots Cray rather than sit on a bus that goes via much of South Bexley to get to Bexleyheath... I've lived in the Bexleyheath area all my life. I was born in the area, grew up in the area, and still live in the area. I'm old enough to remember the old ABC cinema on the site of the current ASDA. This is a topic I know pretty well : I will always avoid talking about things I know little about. How some of you can tell the difference between Voith and ZF transmissions seriously impresses me, and I supposedly did a music degree which involves an awful lot of listening... Dangeorusly niche crossover there, bus engine transmissions and the pursuit of music within an educational context. It is something I have thought about. I take an interest in one and have friends deeply rooted in the other, I've yet to broach the topic. A good engine thrash is on a par with some of the nights I've been out on in terms of synapse firings. It doesn't merit an explanation. I'd hazard on the burgers of St. Paul's Cray going to Sidcup Tesco out of habit but Orpington Tesco does exist as an alternative in these enlightened times. Mmmmm burgers lol. A fair point regarding the Orpington Tesco but with Foots Cray Tesco being much nearer, it does strike me odd that the B14 doesn't serve it unlike the R11. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 15, 2015 0:07:50 GMT
I know I figured though that residents of the St. Paul's Cray Estate are far more likely to do their daily shop in Foots Cray rather than sit on a bus that goes via much of South Bexley to get to Bexleyheath... I've lived in the Bexleyheath area all my life. I was born in the area, grew up in the area, and still live in the area. I'm old enough to remember the old ABC cinema on the site of the current ASDA. This is a topic I know pretty well : I will always avoid talking about things I know little about. How some of you can tell the difference between Voith and ZF transmissions seriously impresses me, and I supposedly did a music degree which involves an awful lot of listening... Your idea to double run it via Foots Cray Tesco is somewhat plausible I grant you but I just don't see it happening. You do know there is a Tesco Express on Orpington High St just between Walnuts Centre and Tubbenden Ln right? Supermarkets are coming up everywhere and I really don't think TFL can start catering for individual shopping preferences and start diverting buses to serve every single supermarket within an area. As you say, B14 runs via a somewhat unusual South Bexley routing to get to its Bexleyheath Shopping Centre anyway so this double run while easily accessible via Ruxley Roundabout would just add unnecessary time. Not forgetting R11 runs to Foots Cray Tesco... I have no idea what ABC cinema you are talking about so you must be getting on past me! Haha. I live in New Eltham, so not too far from yourself With all due respect, Tesco Express isn't the same as using a big Tesco as the range is minimal - it's more of a corner shop/off license than a supermarket. I'm not saying that we start diverting bus services to every supermarket but ones where buses can penetrate the grounds of that supermarket should really be looked at. Any time added would be minimal and would give the residential area next to Sevenoaks Way an overall more frequent connection to their local supermarket in conjunction with the R11. |
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Post by danorak on Jun 15, 2015 9:54:17 GMT
From my observations, the 286 could warrant deckers though I'm not a regular user. The residents of the large housing area that the B14, R1 & R11 passes through south of Foots Cray, I suspect, would welcome a slightly more frequent service to the store and wouldn't add much time on either. That has also been my experience of the 286 with full to bursting buses at the Greenwich end at peak times. The route was restricted by the tree problems in Rochester Way for a while but that has now been sorted allowing the 132 to be double decked. The Greenwich-Eltham end of the 286 is always busy - the 132 has helped a bit but I'd certainly go for double decks ahead of a frequency increase. I suspect we're getting close to the point where Westcombe Hill residents will start grumbling about the number of buses that use it so if more buses go that way, I'd rather they headed off to North Greenwich or the new Sainsburys. |
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Post by marlon101 on Jun 15, 2015 18:05:41 GMT
Perhaps extend the 356 to Shrublands and make it every 15 mins during the day Mon-Sat and every 20 mins evenings and Sundays. Would give Shrublands residents a handy direct link to Eden Park Station which one day might be a Bakerloo Line Station !! I use the 492 occasionally. Its an odd route, fulfilling a local Dartford connection as well as the only route serving parts of Barnhurst and North Cray. Its probably best left with addition of a couple of extra school trips. As a bare minimum that route desperately needs those additional school runs & the sunday christmas additional shopper services which the ITT requests pricing for but might not happen in practice. |
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Post by stuckonthe486 on Jun 16, 2015 0:08:46 GMT
Some fascinating stuff here - but on the whole the bus network in SE London is being asked to do too much because other public transport options are so poor, planning across the boroughs is poor (with some councils of both stripes whose attitudes to public transport are out of the dark ages) and is little-scrutinised - nobody saw North Greenwich becoming the monster it is now and plans for its expansion are inadequate while the Queen Elizabeth Hospital at Woolwich has cost millions to provide buses to (while massively annoying people who just wants to get a 161 from Woolwich to Eltham). As mentioned above, you've a lot of simple problems like fairly quiet roads now being heavily bussed (Westcombe Hill, Charlton Church Lane, Sangley Road) so it's getting harder to know where even to send these buses.
TfL isn't helping itself either - for example, refusing to extend the 202 to the new Charlton Sainsbury's complex, even when the developer offered some money to help pay for it, is short-sighted.
In all truth, SE London is probably still recovering from the loss of the trams (in fact, some of the pan-south London connections the trams provided - Camberwell-Woolwich, for example - have never been restored since their replacement buses were scrapped in the 60s and 70s). Occasionally I sit outside the Ravensbourne Arms in Lewisham on a summer's evening and wonder how much better things would be if you had a tram running down to Bromley every five minutes...
It's hard to know quite what to do when the roads are so packed - without that Bakerloo extension, without some kind of curb on private car use, without better rail services, without that brilliant idea for some kind of tram in Eltham that someone might come up with some day, you're always fighting against a tide.
If TfL ever gets hold of Southeastern's London routes, the resultant better publicity and co-ordination as Overground (or whatever) could help in a few places, such as on the 177/180 corridor between Greenwich and Plumstead. But I can dream.
My own bugbears are about plugging gaps - particularly between SE and SW London, but also some other ones. Brockley to Bromley, Brixton to almost anywhere east of Peckham, Streatham across to Catford/Lewisham, Blackheath to Brockley, Bromley to Blackheath, East Dulwich to East Greenwich, Bromley to Woolwich, Hither Green to Bromley, Camberwell to Charlton - journeys that should be relatively simple but are fiddly enough to make people think they'll drive it instead. Some journeys in that list are flights of fancy because they alliterate or rhyme, but actually they'd all chip in somewhere to make the bus network more cohesive.
But what should be the priority - plugging gaps, or boosting existing services? I know it's possible to do both - love the 218 Bromley - N Greenwich idea, although my idle idea for a Bromley-North Greenwich bus links the 261, 202 and 108 (usually nurtured while waiting an age outside Grove Park station). Maybe one of the mayoral candidates could open a public competition to design, say, five new trunk routes in each quadrant of London, and see where that takes us. So far, though, I'm not sure many of them really get the challenge ahead for TfL.
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Post by sid on Jun 16, 2015 6:32:32 GMT
Some fascinating stuff here - but on the whole the bus network in SE London is being asked to do too much because other public transport options are so poor, planning across the boroughs is poor (with some councils of both stripes whose attitudes to public transport are out of the dark ages) and is little-scrutinised - nobody saw North Greenwich becoming the monster it is now and plans for its expansion are inadequate while the Queen Elizabeth Hospital at Woolwich has cost millions to provide buses to (while massively annoying people who just wants to get a 161 from Woolwich to Eltham). As mentioned above, you've a lot of simple problems like fairly quiet roads now being heavily bussed (Westcombe Hill, Charlton Church Lane, Sangley Road) so it's getting harder to know where even to send these buses. TfL isn't helping itself either - for example, refusing to extend the 202 to the new Charlton Sainsbury's complex, even when the developer offered some money to help pay for it, is short-sighted. In all truth, SE London is probably still recovering from the loss of the trams (in fact, some of the pan-south London connections the trams provided - Camberwell-Woolwich, for example - have never been restored since their replacement buses were scrapped in the 60s and 70s). Occasionally I sit outside the Ravensbourne Arms in Lewisham on a summer's evening and wonder how much better things would be if you had a tram running down to Bromley every five minutes... It's hard to know quite what to do when the roads are so packed - without that Bakerloo extension, without some kind of curb on private car use, without better rail services, without that brilliant idea for some kind of tram in Eltham that someone might come up with some day, you're always fighting against a tide. If TfL ever gets hold of Southeastern's London routes, the resultant better publicity and co-ordination as Overground (or whatever) could help in a few places, such as on the 177/180 corridor between Greenwich and Plumstead. But I can dream. My own bugbears are about plugging gaps - particularly between SE and SW London, but also some other ones. Brockley to Bromley, Brixton to almost anywhere east of Peckham, Streatham across to Catford/Lewisham, Blackheath to Brockley, Bromley to Blackheath, East Dulwich to East Greenwich, Bromley to Woolwich, Hither Green to Bromley, Camberwell to Charlton - journeys that should be relatively simple but are fiddly enough to make people think they'll drive it instead. Some journeys in that list are flights of fancy because they alliterate or rhyme, but actually they'd all chip in somewhere to make the bus network more cohesive. But what should be the priority - plugging gaps, or boosting existing services? I know it's possible to do both - love the 218 Bromley - N Greenwich idea, although my idle idea for a Bromley-North Greenwich bus links the 261, 202 and 108 (usually nurtured while waiting an age outside Grove Park station). Maybe one of the mayoral candidates could open a public competition to design, say, five new trunk routes in each quadrant of London, and see where that takes us. So far, though, I'm not sure many of them really get the challenge ahead for TfL. Lewisham High Street is something of a mini Oxford Street with too many buses trying to use too little road space, for that reason alone I'd be reluctant to introduce the 218 without reducing something else. Other than that it's not a bad idea although Belmont/Westcombe Hill might be a bit over bussed but I'd extend it further south to PRU hospital with the 61 withdrawn, the 261 extended to Ramsden Estate and the 353 rerouted to Chislehurst. One idea I had was to extend the 180 from Lewisham via the P4 to Honor Oak, the 63 to Peckham Rye and the 37 to Brixton although it would no doubt be deemed to be to long a route even if the Woolwich to Belvedere section was replaced by something else. |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 16, 2015 7:45:17 GMT
Maybe one of the mayoral candidates could open a public competition to design, say, five new trunk routes in each quadrant of London, and see where that takes us. So far, though, I'm not sure many of them really get the challenge ahead for TfL. You are spot on about the challenge ahead for TfL. I'm still waiting for any of the potential candidates, regardless of party, to say anything positive about buses and what they will do to make them better. I know something has been said about fares but I'm deeply sceptical about any such commitment when there is no supporting evidence about where the funding for a cut comes from. We are talking about tens of millions of pounds to fund these initiatives and I'd rather have investment in service quality than a fares cut which reduces income and may cause more overcrowding. No point in reducing fares and then not being able to carry the resultant demand. Can you imagine TfL's reaction in having to sift through the public's ideas for new bus routes? I can hear the wailing noises from Palestra as I write.    |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 16, 2015 9:18:09 GMT
Some fascinating stuff here - but on the whole the bus network in SE London is being asked to do too much because other public transport options are so poor, planning across the boroughs is poor (with some councils of both stripes whose attitudes to public transport are out of the dark ages) and is little-scrutinised - nobody saw North Greenwich becoming the monster it is now and plans for its expansion are inadequate while the Queen Elizabeth Hospital at Woolwich has cost millions to provide buses to (while massively annoying people who just wants to get a 161 from Woolwich to Eltham). As mentioned above, you've a lot of simple problems like fairly quiet roads now being heavily bussed (Westcombe Hill, Charlton Church Lane, Sangley Road) so it's getting harder to know where even to send these buses. TfL isn't helping itself either - for example, refusing to extend the 202 to the new Charlton Sainsbury's complex, even when the developer offered some money to help pay for it, is short-sighted. In all truth, SE London is probably still recovering from the loss of the trams (in fact, some of the pan-south London connections the trams provided - Camberwell-Woolwich, for example - have never been restored since their replacement buses were scrapped in the 60s and 70s). Occasionally I sit outside the Ravensbourne Arms in Lewisham on a summer's evening and wonder how much better things would be if you had a tram running down to Bromley every five minutes... It's hard to know quite what to do when the roads are so packed - without that Bakerloo extension, without some kind of curb on private car use, without better rail services, without that brilliant idea for some kind of tram in Eltham that someone might come up with some day, you're always fighting against a tide. If TfL ever gets hold of Southeastern's London routes, the resultant better publicity and co-ordination as Overground (or whatever) could help in a few places, such as on the 177/180 corridor between Greenwich and Plumstead. But I can dream. My own bugbears are about plugging gaps - particularly between SE and SW London, but also some other ones. Brockley to Bromley, Brixton to almost anywhere east of Peckham, Streatham across to Catford/Lewisham, Blackheath to Brockley, Bromley to Blackheath, East Dulwich to East Greenwich, Bromley to Woolwich, Hither Green to Bromley, Camberwell to Charlton - journeys that should be relatively simple but are fiddly enough to make people think they'll drive it instead. Some journeys in that list are flights of fancy because they alliterate or rhyme, but actually they'd all chip in somewhere to make the bus network more cohesive. But what should be the priority - plugging gaps, or boosting existing services? I know it's possible to do both - love the 218 Bromley - N Greenwich idea, although my idle idea for a Bromley-North Greenwich bus links the 261, 202 and 108 (usually nurtured while waiting an age outside Grove Park station). Maybe one of the mayoral candidates could open a public competition to design, say, five new trunk routes in each quadrant of London, and see where that takes us. So far, though, I'm not sure many of them really get the challenge ahead for TfL. Lewisham High Street is something of a mini Oxford Street with too many buses trying to use too little road space, for that reason alone I'd be reluctant to introduce the 218 without reducing something else. Other than that it's not a bad idea although Belmont/Westcombe Hill might be a bit over bussed but I'd extend it further south to PRU hospital with the 61 withdrawn, the 261 extended to Ramsden Estate and the 353 rerouted to Chislehurst. One idea I had was to extend the 180 from Lewisham via the P4 to Honor Oak, the 63 to Peckham Rye and the 37 to Brixton although it would no doubt be deemed to be to long a route even if the Woolwich to Belvedere section was replaced by something else. That would indeed be too long a route to run. Better options personally are to introduce a 437 from Herne Hill to North Greenwich via the 37 to Peckham, Trafalgar Avenue, Peckham Park Road, Rotherhithe New Road, Ilderton Road, New Cross Gate, New Cross, Deptford, Lewisham Road, Lewisham, Belmont Hill, Blackheath, Westcombe Hill, Greenwich Peninsula. This opens up brand new links and relieves part of the 37 & 108, and a 445 from Clapham Junction to Lewisham via the 345 to Peckham & the 136/436 to Lewisham with the 345 cut back to Brixton and diverted to serve the station. This would create a east to west link which South London badly lack. |
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Post by sid on Jun 16, 2015 9:52:13 GMT
Lewisham High Street is something of a mini Oxford Street with too many buses trying to use too little road space, for that reason alone I'd be reluctant to introduce the 218 without reducing something else. Other than that it's not a bad idea although Belmont/Westcombe Hill might be a bit over bussed but I'd extend it further south to PRU hospital with the 61 withdrawn, the 261 extended to Ramsden Estate and the 353 rerouted to Chislehurst. One idea I had was to extend the 180 from Lewisham via the P4 to Honor Oak, the 63 to Peckham Rye and the 37 to Brixton although it would no doubt be deemed to be to long a route even if the Woolwich to Belvedere section was replaced by something else. That would indeed be too long a route to run. Better options personally are to introduce a 437 from Herne Hill to North Greenwich via the 37 to Peckham, Trafalgar Avenue, Peckham Park Road, Rotherhithe New Road, Ilderton Road, New Cross Gate, New Cross, Deptford, Lewisham Road, Lewisham, Belmont Hill, Blackheath, Westcombe Hill, Greenwich Peninsula. This opens up brand new links and relieves part of the 37 & 108, and a 445 from Clapham Junction to Lewisham via the 345 to Peckham & the 136/436 to Lewisham with the 345 cut back to Brixton and diverted to serve the station. This would create a east to west link which South London badly lack. I can see some merit in the 437 idea although I'd run it via Surrey Quays and Deptford and beyond Herne Hill to Brixton and maybe reduce the 37 frequency slightly? |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 16, 2015 13:28:16 GMT
That would indeed be too long a route to run. Better options personally are to introduce a 437 from Herne Hill to North Greenwich via the 37 to Peckham, Trafalgar Avenue, Peckham Park Road, Rotherhithe New Road, Ilderton Road, New Cross Gate, New Cross, Deptford, Lewisham Road, Lewisham, Belmont Hill, Blackheath, Westcombe Hill, Greenwich Peninsula. This opens up brand new links and relieves part of the 37 & 108, and a 445 from Clapham Junction to Lewisham via the 345 to Peckham & the 136/436 to Lewisham with the 345 cut back to Brixton and diverted to serve the station. This would create a east to west link which South London badly lack. I can see some merit in the 437 idea although I'd run it via Surrey Quays and Deptford and beyond Herne Hill to Brixton and maybe reduce the 37 frequency slightly? The 37 is already struggling and needs help - it would be a backwards step to reduce its frequency. The reason why I avoided Surrey Quays was to provide a link from Surrey Canal to Peckham & New Cross - maybe another route could do that? |
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Post by Connor on Jun 16, 2015 18:26:40 GMT
New route 361- Stagecoach TB- Trident DDs- 20 minute frequency- Bromley South/Ringers Road to Abbey Wood; Via the 162 to Chislehurst, Camden Park Road, then via Prince Imperial Road, the B263 to Fiveways, New Eltham, Footscray Road, Eltham High Street, Westmount Road, Rochester Way/Welling Way, Welling/Central Avenue, Wickham Street, Lodge Hill, Brampton Road and Knee Hill. An orbital route, linking many areas within SE London, and in particular Southeastern rail stations, Bromley South and Bickley (on the Chatham Main Line), Chislehurst (on the SE Main Line), New Eltham (on the Sidcup Line), Welling (on the Bexleyheath Line) and Abbey Wood (on the North Kent Line and Crossrail). Trees along Prince Imperial Road and Knee Hill may have to be looked at to allow DDs on the route. The 244 may have to be moved out of it's stand (extended to Erith/ cut back to Thamesmead?).  |
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Post by Paul on Jun 16, 2015 19:51:28 GMT
New route 361- Stagecoach TB- Trident DDs- 20 minute frequency- Bromley South/Ringers Road to Abbey Wood; Via the 162 to Chistlehurst, Camden Park Road, then via Prince Imperial Road, the B263 to Fiveways, New Eltham, Footscray Road, Eltham High Street, Westmount Road, Rochester Way/Welling Way, Welling/Central Avenue, Wickham Street, Lodge Hill, Brampton Road and Knee Hill. An orbital route, linking many areas within SE London, and in particular Southeastern rail stations, Bromley South and Bickley (on the Chatham Main Line), Chistlehurst (on the SE Main Line) New Eltham (on the Sidcup Line), Welling (on the Bexleyheath Line) and Abbey Wood (on the North Kent Line and Crossrail). Trees along Prince Imperial Road and Knee Hill may have to be looked at to allow DDs on the route. The 244 may have to be moved out of it's stand (extended to Erith/ cut back to Thamesmead?) I think Connor has the bones of a decent idea here. Orbital links such as this are few and far between and indeed such journeys simply cannot be made by rail without going massively out of one's way. However I want to suggest a few changes Firstly, the number. A 361 in the Bromley area would suggest parallels with the 261 - instead I would use 361 for a Bromley/North Greenwich link via Grove Park, Lee and Blackheath. As I'm on my phone I don't know/can't be bothered to look as to which numbers are free to suggest an alternative Secondly, the Bromley terminus. You couldn't fit another route on Ringers Road with the 126 and I'm not certain the 126 or this new route could stand in the vicinity of the old 126 stand in Simpsons Road (I no longer go around there and don't know what the situation is with the development there). I would suggest the Crown or, even better, TB itself (since Connor has us running it!). This has the added benefit of more help along Bromley Common and especially another nearly empty bus to cope with the vast numbers of school kids using the buses to get into Bromley from Bishop Justus School Thirdly, the routing to Chislehurst. Routing it via the 162/269 would be pointless unless you take one of those routes away. I would suggest curtailing the 162 at Bromley in order to further extend it at the Beckenham end - maybe to Norwood Junction? Fourthly, Prince Imperial Road doesn't need a service. Chislehurst War Memorial is a far better routing to connect with other services and also gives a handy curtailment point Fifthly, although serving the length of Green Lane is desirable, losing the 162 means Edgebury loses it's service. Since we want to keep deckers on the new route maybe a new local service linking Orpington, Chislehurst, Edgebury, New Eltham and Eltham? I don't know enough about the area north of Eltham to comment although linking to Welling and then Abbey Wood for Crossrail seems desirable. I might suggest an alternative destination could be Woolwich, possibly via QEH I've just ruined Connor's idea, haven't I? Sorry mate! I'm quite enjoying this thread actually - might even contribute a few ideas of my own soon! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 20:03:02 GMT
New route 361- Stagecoach TB- Trident DDs- 20 minute frequency- Bromley South/Ringers Road to Abbey Wood; Via the 162 to Chistlehurst, Camden Park Road, then via Prince Imperial Road, the B263 to Fiveways, New Eltham, Footscray Road, Eltham High Street, Westmount Road, Rochester Way/Welling Way, Welling/Central Avenue, Wickham Street, Lodge Hill, Brampton Road and Knee Hill. An orbital route, linking many areas within SE London, and in particular Southeastern rail stations, Bromley South and Bickley (on the Chatham Main Line), Chistlehurst (on the SE Main Line) New Eltham (on the Sidcup Line), Welling (on the Bexleyheath Line) and Abbey Wood (on the North Kent Line and Crossrail). Trees along Prince Imperial Road and Knee Hill may have to be looked at to allow DDs on the route. The 244 may have to be moved out of it's stand (extended to Erith/ cut back to Thamesmead?). Nice picture and you really thought about this. This circuitous style route reminds of the 386 between Greenwich and Blackheath Village The 162 is very overcrowded, appearing as one of the most overcrowded or complained about for that reason in actual TfL reports, so lending that a hand would be great. I have real life experience of this route as a regular; it is especially busy route. In my view, the 162 situ- looks like the 132 all over again (both packed as single deckers) and I think the only solution is the 162 double-decked As a local having an easy way of getting to Welling & Abbey Wood would be great. It shouldn't be this hard  Maybe some other routes could be adjusted if this was to "happen" Yes, outer Greenwich/Bexley could do with an orbital route like the 386 has in the larger areas of Greenwich |
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I figured though that residents of the St. Paul's Cray Estate are far more likely to do their daily shop in Foots Cray rather than sit on a bus that goes via much of South Bexley to get to Bexleyheath...
