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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 16:52:58 GMT
Considering the lack of tube links etc. , the SE London network isn't really at all bad. My set of improvements aren't nearly as wide ranging as bengady3's, but here goes... 51 : M-F peaks - extra journeys. 54 : extension to Croydon over its original route. 89 : Sunday frequency up to 15 minutes daytime. 108 : upgrade to 12m single decks. 202 : onwards to North Greenwich via 108. 244, 286 : double deck conversions. 401 : extension to Darent Valley Hospital via Bexley, Coldblow, Dartford Heath and Princes Road. 428 : extension to Abbey Wood Station via 99 and Knee Hill once Crossrail opens : links Crayford, Slade Green and Upper Belvedere to the new railway. Upgrade to double deck at the same time. 469 : extension to Crayford via Northend Road, Perry Street and route 492. Mainly to link Victoria Scott Court to the large Sainsburys at Crayford or the shops at Erith. 492 : up to every 20 mins Mon-Sat daytime, to every 30 mins each evening. Has been asked for by locals for years and years... B14 : double run it into Tesco Foots Cray like the R11. I think there are possibly some other routes that could be looked at, notably 188, 199, 208, 320, but they very much come under 'nice to have if possible', so I won't list here. A good set of sensible changes - only one I don't support is the 54 extension to Croydon which I'm guessing you'd only implement after the Lewisham works are finished. I'm yet to be convinced it could run reliably in that form. One other thing I would suggest would be sending the 129 or 453 to Lewisham rather than extending the 202 to Nortb Greenwich. That's if stand space can be found of course, which is at a premium at the moment |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 14, 2015 16:57:39 GMT
51 has grown consistently over the years and being a regular user, it seems to be a very popular trunk route (particularly from Woolwich, Calderwood St - Plumstead Common / Bassant Road and from Welling Station. I support your idea  286 does not need a double-deck conversion and there is nothing more to say about that Extending the 401 & 469 that far, despite calls for more bus services to DV Hospital, would seem unnecessary without majorly changing the whole route. I am doubtful anyone on the 401 (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath) uses DV as their local Hospital, while the 469 takes passengers to Queen Elizabeth Hospital which we can therefore assume is these passenger's local hospital service. I guess TFL would have to measure who uses DV Hospital and make changes from there I would not advise extending any route via the 492 route either. What a horrible route  492 is never busy when I get on it and therefore a frequency increase also seems unnecessary B14 does not need to be double run anywhere. This is another route that needs no changes Why do you think the 286 doesn't need double deckers? I don't know how or why you have concluded that the B14 doesn't need to do a double run to Tesco, do users of the route shop elsewhere? From my observations, the 286 could warrant deckers though I'm not a regular user. The residents of the large housing area that the B14, R1 & R11 passes through south of Foots Cray, I suspect, would welcome a slightly more frequent service to the store and wouldn't add much time on either. |
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Post by marlon101 on Jun 14, 2015 17:04:56 GMT
Considering the lack of tube links etc. , the SE London network isn't really at all bad. My set of improvements aren't nearly as wide ranging as bengady3's, but here goes... 51 : M-F peaks - extra journeys. 54 : extension to Croydon over its original route. 89 : Sunday frequency up to 15 minutes daytime. 108 : upgrade to 12m single decks. 202 : onwards to North Greenwich via 108. 244, 286 : double deck conversions. 401 : extension to Darent Valley Hospital via Bexley, Coldblow, Dartford Heath and Princes Road. 428 : extension to Abbey Wood Station via 99 and Knee Hill once Crossrail opens : links Crayford, Slade Green and Upper Belvedere to the new railway. Upgrade to double deck at the same time. 469 : extension to Crayford via Northend Road, Perry Street and route 492. Mainly to link Victoria Scott Court to the large Sainsburys at Crayford or the shops at Erith. 492 : up to every 20 mins Mon-Sat daytime, to every 30 mins each evening. Has been asked for by locals for years and years... B14 : double run it into Tesco Foots Cray like the R11. I think there are possibly some other routes that could be looked at, notably 188, 199, 208, 320, but they very much come under 'nice to have if possible', so I won't list here. 51 has grown consistently over the years and being a regular user, it seems to be a very popular trunk route (particularly from Woolwich, Calderwood St - Plumstead Common / Bassant Road and from Welling Station. I support your idea 286 does not need a double-deck conversion and there is nothing more to say about that Extending the 401 & 469 that far, despite calls for more bus services to DV Hospital, would seem unnecessary without majorly changing the whole route. I am doubtful anyone on the 401 (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath) uses DV as their local Hospital, while the 469 takes passengers to Queen Elizabeth Hospital which we can therefore assume is these passenger's local hospital service. I guess TFL would have to measure who uses DV Hospital and make changes from there I would not advise extending any route via the 492 route either. What a horrible route 492 is never busy when I get on it and therefore a frequency increase also seems unnecessary B14 does not need to be double run anywhere. This is another route that needs no changes I'd much rather cut the B14 all together. Not entirely sure what its purpose is other than running snotty kids about (speaking of which, if we cut free travel outside of 7-7 term times only, we'd be able to take a good few buses off the street or deploy them elsewhere). Couldn't agree more regarding the 51. With the 286 I'd consider a further frequency increase in the peaks rather than double-decking which would be needlessly wasteful. You suggest that the 492 is never busy, but perhaps it would be if it was more reliable and had a 'turn up and go' frequency that attracted passengers. Mind I've always been an advocate of scrapping the service all together and merely ensuring some other B-route nipped into the North Cray estate to give it a service. How about B14 from Bexleyheath, to Bexley Village, North Cray Estate, QMH? Not sure I'd accept your points about the 401 & 469. Though having reservations of my own, few choose to use QEH, they just have to. You'll know patients get a choice of hospital, and having these links would make DVH a valid option for treatment for some where it is not now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 17:18:33 GMT
51 has grown consistently over the years and being a regular user, it seems to be a very popular trunk route (particularly from Woolwich, Calderwood St - Plumstead Common / Bassant Road and from Welling Station. I support your idea 286 does not need a double-deck conversion and there is nothing more to say about that Extending the 401 & 469 that far, despite calls for more bus services to DV Hospital, would seem unnecessary without majorly changing the whole route. I am doubtful anyone on the 401 (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath) uses DV as their local Hospital, while the 469 takes passengers to Queen Elizabeth Hospital which we can therefore assume is these passenger's local hospital service. I guess TFL would have to measure who uses DV Hospital and make changes from there I would not advise extending any route via the 492 route either. What a horrible route 492 is never busy when I get on it and therefore a frequency increase also seems unnecessary B14 does not need to be double run anywhere. This is another route that needs no changes Why do you think the 286 doesn't need double deckers? I don't know how or why you have concluded that the B14 doesn't need to do a double run to Tesco, do users of the route shop elsewhere? The route just does not warrant double deckers, it isn't that overcrowded that it needs it. I'd consider bumping up the frequency before even considering double deckers and even that in my opinion does not need amending. The 286 is a very well run and reliable route B14 GOES TO BEXLEYHEATH SHOPPING CENTRE... There happens to be a ginormous ASDA there. Go figure!!!!!  |
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 17:28:33 GMT
Why do you think the 286 doesn't need double deckers? I don't know how or why you have concluded that the B14 doesn't need to do a double run to Tesco, do users of the route shop elsewhere? The route just does not warrant double deckers, it isn't that overcrowded that it needs it. I'd consider bumping up the frequency before even considering double deckers and even that in my opinion does not need amending. The 286 is a very well run and reliable route B14 GOES TO BEXLEYHEATH SHOPPING CENTRE... There happens to be a ginormous ASDA there. Go figure!!!!! Yes I did go figure........your obnoxious tone has rather given the game away and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has worked out who you really are. I just wish there was a facility to block people on here so I didn't have to sift through this tripe to find the posts that are worth reading. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 17:30:18 GMT
51 has grown consistently over the years and being a regular user, it seems to be a very popular trunk route (particularly from Woolwich, Calderwood St - Plumstead Common / Bassant Road and from Welling Station. I support your idea 286 does not need a double-deck conversion and there is nothing more to say about that Extending the 401 & 469 that far, despite calls for more bus services to DV Hospital, would seem unnecessary without majorly changing the whole route. I am doubtful anyone on the 401 (Thamesmead - Bexleyheath) uses DV as their local Hospital, while the 469 takes passengers to Queen Elizabeth Hospital which we can therefore assume is these passenger's local hospital service. I guess TFL would have to measure who uses DV Hospital and make changes from there I would not advise extending any route via the 492 route either. What a horrible route 492 is never busy when I get on it and therefore a frequency increase also seems unnecessary B14 does not need to be double run anywhere. This is another route that needs no changes I'd much rather cut the B14 all together. Not entirely sure what its purpose is other than running snotty kids about (speaking of which, if we cut free travel outside of 7-7 term times only, we'd be able to take a good few buses off the street or deploy them elsewhere). Couldn't agree more regarding the 51. With the 286 I'd consider a further frequency increase in the peaks rather than double-decking which would be needlessly wasteful. You suggest that the 492 is never busy, but perhaps it would be if it was more reliable and had a 'turn up and go' frequency that attracted passengers. Mind I've always been an advocate of scrapping the service all together and merely ensuring some other B-route nipped into the North Cray estate to give it a service. How about B14 from Bexleyheath, to Bexley Village, North Cray Estate, QMH? Not sure I'd accept your points about the 401 & 469. Though having reservations of my own, few choose to use QEH, they just have to. You'll know patients get a choice of hospital, and having these links would make DVH a valid option for treatment for some where it is not now. I like your idea of serving more of the North Cray Estate, but that would require changing a lot of the existing B14 route TFL would definitely have to consider lots of factors before extending any routes to DV Hospital. It certainly would open up many links and options, you are right, but at this moment in time I'm not sure the 401 and 469 are the right way of going about it - I guess we'll see |
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 17:32:03 GMT
Why do you think the 286 doesn't need double deckers? I don't know how or why you have concluded that the B14 doesn't need to do a double run to Tesco, do users of the route shop elsewhere? From my observations, the 286 could warrant deckers though I'm not a regular user. The residents of the large housing area that the B14, R1 & R11 passes through south of Foots Cray, I suspect, would welcome a slightly more frequent service to the store and wouldn't add much time on either. That has also been my experience of the 286 with full to bursting buses at the Greenwich end at peak times. The route was restricted by the tree problems in Rochester Way for a while but that has now been sorted allowing the 132 to be double decked. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 17:33:15 GMT
The route just does not warrant double deckers, it isn't that overcrowded that it needs it. I'd consider bumping up the frequency before even considering double deckers and even that in my opinion does not need amending. The 286 is a very well run and reliable route B14 GOES TO BEXLEYHEATH SHOPPING CENTRE... There happens to be a ginormous ASDA there. Go figure!!!!! Yes I did go figure........your obnoxious tone has rather given the game away and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has worked out who you really are. I just wish there was a facility to block people on here so I didn't have to sift through this tripe to find the posts that are worth reading. You have made me crack up. I don't know who you think I am but I've only just joined the Forum having only just gotten interested in these topics I'm sorry you feel that way but, honestly, you are the only one posting tripe on here |
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Post by sid on Jun 14, 2015 17:35:21 GMT
Yes I did go figure........your obnoxious tone has rather given the game away and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has worked out who you really are. I just wish there was a facility to block people on here so I didn't have to sift through this tripe to find the posts that are worth reading. You have made me crack up. I don't know who you think I am but I've only just joined the Forum having only just gotten interested in these topics I'm sorry you feel that way but, honestly, you are the only one posting tripe on here I shall ignore any further contributions from you! |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 14, 2015 18:03:33 GMT
Why do you think the 286 doesn't need double deckers? I don't know how or why you have concluded that the B14 doesn't need to do a double run to Tesco, do users of the route shop elsewhere? The route just does not warrant double deckers, it isn't that overcrowded that it needs it. I'd consider bumping up the frequency before even considering double deckers and even that in my opinion does not need amending. The 286 is a very well run and reliable route B14 GOES TO BEXLEYHEATH SHOPPING CENTRE... There happens to be a ginormous ASDA there. Go figure!!!!! In regards to supermarkets, not everyone will want to shop at ASDA as people have their own preference in regards to the supermarket they shop at so I cant see it being a bad idea to run the B14 up to Tesco and back down. I'll admit I'm not a regular on the route but from observations, it carries a decent load (sorry 'marlon101') and I'd be surprised if that large residential area south of Foots Cray off Sevenoaks Way wouldn't want another link to their local supermarket rather than head all the way to Bexleyheath. Just my thoughts. |
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Post by rmz19 on Jun 14, 2015 18:45:42 GMT
From my observations, the 286 could warrant deckers though I'm not a regular user. The residents of the large housing area that the B14, R1 & R11 passes through south of Foots Cray, I suspect, would welcome a slightly more frequent service to the store and wouldn't add much time on either. That has also been my experience of the 286 with full to bursting buses at the Greenwich end at peak times. The route was restricted by the tree problems in Rochester Way for a while but that has now been sorted allowing the 132 to be double decked. I also regularly witness the 286 full to the brim at times. The 286 indeed could do with DDs coupled with a slight frequency reduction to every 12 mins, or it can stick with LWB SDs and gain a frequency increase to every 8 mins. |
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Post by DT 11 on Jun 14, 2015 18:57:32 GMT
What is wrong with the 356? You have suggested many times to get rid of the route, there is nothing wrong with the route and it does not need to be withdrawn. As has been said before routes like that may not be seen as beneficial by some, but to the locals it may just be better for them. There may be nothing wrong with it but that doesn't mean it can't be improved upon. For example extending the 432 to Shirley would give links to Crystal Palace, West Norwood, Brixton etc, the 194 provides an alternative link to Penge and Sydenham Who is going to benfit though... The 356 goes via the back streets and many times I've used the route with a healthy passenger load. Why would the 432 running every 12 Mins need to go somewhere dull like Shirley? The 356 frequency matches it more. The 194 provides alternative links, but not via Kent House Road and many other side streets the 356 serves...  |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 14, 2015 20:27:39 GMT
Just to say...I didn't say I wanted the 469 to go to DV Hospital. Victoria Scott Court is a large residential home currently without a bus route, aside from a Mobility service, just off Perry Street in Crayford. The extension would run from Erith via Northend Road, Perry Street, then via the 492 to stand at Crayford Bridge, which currently has no regular terminating route and could fit the 469 in.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jun 14, 2015 20:44:28 GMT
B14 GOES TO BEXLEYHEATH SHOPPING CENTRE... There happens to be a ginormous ASDA there. Go figure!!!!! I know  I figured though that residents of the St. Paul's Cray Estate are far more likely to do their daily shop in Foots Cray rather than sit on a bus that goes via much of South Bexley to get to Bexleyheath... I've lived in the Bexleyheath area all my life. I was born in the area, grew up in the area, and still live in the area. I'm old enough to remember the old ABC cinema on the site of the current ASDA. This is a topic I know pretty well : I will always avoid talking about things I know little about. How some of you can tell the difference between Voith and ZF transmissions seriously impresses me, and I supposedly did a music degree which involves an awful lot of listening... |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 21:08:47 GMT
Perhaps extend the 356 to Shrublands and make it every 15 mins during the day Mon-Sat and every 20 mins evenings and Sundays.
Would give Shrublands residents a handy direct link to Eden Park Station which one day might be a Bakerloo Line Station !!
I use the 492 occasionally. Its an odd route, fulfilling a local Dartford connection as well as the only route serving parts of Barnhurst and North Cray. Its probably best left with addition of a couple of extra school trips.
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I figured though that residents of the St. Paul's Cray Estate are far more likely to do their daily shop in Foots Cray rather than sit on a bus that goes via much of South Bexley to get to Bexleyheath...