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Post by wirewiper on Oct 23, 2022 11:49:47 GMT
Would be quite expensive though. Plus I’m not sure the roads being bypassed (Burnt Ash Lane and College Road) would deliver much time saving Yes it probably would be difficult to justify the costs for a relatively low time saving, a guided busway is just about the only thing that hasn't been suggested for the Bromley North branch. I think I would prefer to see some sort of light rail solution for the Bromley North branch. Possibly even street running into Bromley Town Centre (so a tram, basically). But this is starting to go off-topic .... |
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Post by greenboy on Oct 23, 2022 12:43:21 GMT
Yes it probably would be difficult to justify the costs for a relatively low time saving, a guided busway is just about the only thing that hasn't been suggested for the Bromley North branch. I think I would prefer to see some sort of light rail solution for the Bromley North branch. Possibly even street running into Bromley Town Centre (so a tram, basically). But this is starting to go off-topic .... Yes it could be put to better use and the various options have been discussed previously, interesting video on the subject........ youtu.be/4C2JDzIeSuM |
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Post by Paul on Oct 23, 2022 17:19:57 GMT
Yes it probably would be difficult to justify the costs for a relatively low time saving, a guided busway is just about the only thing that hasn't been suggested for the Bromley North branch. I think I would prefer to see some sort of light rail solution for the Bromley North branch. Possibly even street running into Bromley Town Centre (so a tram, basically). But this is starting to go off-topic .... Off topic is fun 😉 I like the idea of light rail coming to Bromley. It would take significant building work but I’m sure it’s not lost on anyone that the Bromley North railway lines align almost exactly with East Street. It doesn’t take much imagination to envisage a light railway line down East Street to terminate at the Market Square and possibly even continue down the High Street |
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Post by danorak on Oct 24, 2022 16:04:57 GMT
I will sit down with the crayons at some point but I have to say these proposals are, for once, too timid. Clearly the plan is to be incremental but they feel like a missed opportunity. Where is the much wanted connection to the shopping estate in Charlton? Does it still make sense to send the 108 all the way to Lewisham as a single decker?
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Post by Busboy105 on Oct 24, 2022 16:17:09 GMT
I will sit down with the crayons at some point but I have to say these proposals are, for once, too timid. Clearly the plan is to be incremental but they feel like a missed opportunity. Where is the much wanted connection to the shopping estate in Charlton? Does it still make sense to send the 108 all the way to Lewisham as a single decker? The 108 Is single decker only because of the Blackwall Tunnel. The night 108 are double deckers I believe |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 24, 2022 17:40:10 GMT
I will sit down with the crayons at some point but I have to say these proposals are, for once, too timid. Clearly the plan is to be incremental but they feel like a missed opportunity. Where is the much wanted connection to the shopping estate in Charlton? Does it still make sense to send the 108 all the way to Lewisham as a single decker? The 108 Is single decker only because of the Blackwall Tunnel. The night 108 are double deckers I believe Even if the northbound Blackwall Tunnel was expanded to take double decks (😂) the 108 would still have to remain single deck because of a low bridge in Stratford. |
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Post by COBO on Oct 24, 2022 17:53:42 GMT
I will sit down with the crayons at some point but I have to say these proposals are, for once, too timid. Clearly the plan is to be incremental but they feel like a missed opportunity. Where is the much wanted connection to the shopping estate in Charlton? Does it still make sense to send the 108 all the way to Lewisham as a single decker? The 108 Is single decker only because of the Blackwall Tunnel. The night 108 are double deckers I believe The double deckers on the 108 only run between North Greenwhich and Lewisham. |
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Post by wirewiper on Oct 24, 2022 18:03:23 GMT
I will sit down with the crayons at some point but I have to say these proposals are, for once, too timid. Clearly the plan is to be incremental but they feel like a missed opportunity. Where is the much wanted connection to the shopping estate in Charlton? Does it still make sense to send the 108 all the way to Lewisham as a single decker? The 108 Is single decker only because of the Blackwall Tunnel. The night 108 are double deckers I believe The night 108 is also single decker. There are evening short journeys between North Greenwich and Lewisham in this direction only, worked by buses off the 321 allocation. These journeys operate from 22.45 until around 01.15 and support the main 108 service, especially when there are events at the O2 Arena. |
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Post by danorak on Oct 25, 2022 10:05:32 GMT
The 108 Is single decker only because of the Blackwall Tunnel. The night 108 are double deckers I believe Even if the northbound Blackwall Tunnel was expanded to take double decks (😂) the 108 would still have to remain single deck because of a low bridge in Stratford. That's my point really: would it make more sense to limit the 108 to the restricted Stratford - North Greenwich section? The southern bit could then become part of a double deck Silvertown Tunnel route: this would make better use of an expensively built asset, bus priority measures and increase capacity to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich. Much of what the 108 and 129 will offer is paralleled by the DLR. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 25, 2022 11:04:31 GMT
Even if the northbound Blackwall Tunnel was expanded to take double decks (😂) the 108 would still have to remain single deck because of a low bridge in Stratford. That's my point really: would it make more sense to limit the 108 to the restricted Stratford - North Greenwich section? The southern bit could then become part of a double deck Silvertown Tunnel route: this would make better use of an expensively built asset, bus priority measures and increase capacity to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich. Much of what the 108 and 129 will offer is paralleled by the DLR. I think that would be a great idea. Either a new, let’s for the sake of argument call it 408, linking the southern end of the 108 with new ground in East London, or extend something from north of the river through the new tunnel, then over the southern part of the 108. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 25, 2022 12:49:07 GMT
Even if the northbound Blackwall Tunnel was expanded to take double decks (😂) the 108 would still have to remain single deck because of a low bridge in Stratford. That's my point really: would it make more sense to limit the 108 to the restricted Stratford - North Greenwich section? The southern bit could then become part of a double deck Silvertown Tunnel route: this would make better use of an expensively built asset, bus priority measures and increase capacity to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich. Much of what the 108 and 129 will offer is paralleled by the DLR. I'm not convinced the X239 proposal is the best idea - but you could maybe introduce a new route 239 (all stops), taking over the 108 from Lewisham via Blackheath to North Greenwich, then through the Silvertown Town to Canning Town, and continuing to terminate at Canary Wharf. This would cover some of the objectives of the X239, linking Blackheath to Canary Wharf, but also serving key interchanges either side of the tunnel, and providing the missing link between Canary Wharf and Canning Town. Could maybe also extend the 335 from Kidbrooke to Grove Park if needed. Or an alternative option with the 108 could be to restore the previous 108/D8 routeings north of Poplar, allowing the 108 to use DDs to/from Stratford, then diverted through the Silvertown Tunnel. This would require the D8 to revert back to SDs again - however I think the main reason for the original swap was to provide extra capacity for school traffic along the A12 (which a revised 108 could then cover). Could also use the 108's 12m SDs on the D8 if they can fit at the Crossharbour end? |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Oct 25, 2022 16:53:16 GMT
That's my point really: would it make more sense to limit the 108 to the restricted Stratford - North Greenwich section? The southern bit could then become part of a double deck Silvertown Tunnel route: this would make better use of an expensively built asset, bus priority measures and increase capacity to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich. Much of what the 108 and 129 will offer is paralleled by the DLR. I'm not convinced the X239 proposal is the best idea - but you could maybe introduce a new route 239 (all stops), taking over the 108 from Lewisham via Blackheath to North Greenwich, then through the Silvertown Town to Canning Town, and continuing to terminate at Canary Wharf. This would cover some of the objectives of the X239, linking Blackheath to Canary Wharf, but also serving key interchanges either side of the tunnel, and providing the missing link between Canary Wharf and Canning Town. Could maybe also extend the 335 from Kidbrooke to Grove Park if needed. Or an alternative option with the 108 could be to restore the previous 108/D8 routeings north of Poplar, allowing the 108 to use DDs to/from Stratford, then diverted through the Silvertown Tunnel. This would require the D8 to revert back to SDs again - however I think the main reason for the original swap was to provide extra capacity for school traffic along the A12 (which a revised 108 could then cover). Could also use the 108's 12m SDs on the D8 if they can fit at the Crossharbour end? I like the all stops 239. It could then be extended to Crossharbour in replacement of the D3 diversion. |
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Post by ronnie on Oct 25, 2022 19:37:42 GMT
That's my point really: would it make more sense to limit the 108 to the restricted Stratford - North Greenwich section? The southern bit could then become part of a double deck Silvertown Tunnel route: this would make better use of an expensively built asset, bus priority measures and increase capacity to the Jubilee Line at North Greenwich. Much of what the 108 and 129 will offer is paralleled by the DLR. I'm not convinced the X239 proposal is the best idea - but you could maybe introduce a new route 239 (all stops), taking over the 108 from Lewisham via Blackheath to North Greenwich, then through the Silvertown Town to Canning Town, and continuing to terminate at Canary Wharf. This would cover some of the objectives of the X239, linking Blackheath to Canary Wharf, but also serving key interchanges either side of the tunnel, and providing the missing link between Canary Wharf and Canning Town. Could maybe also extend the 335 from Kidbrooke to Grove Park if needed. Or an alternative option with the 108 could be to restore the previous 108/D8 routeings north of Poplar, allowing the 108 to use DDs to/from Stratford, then diverted through the Silvertown Tunnel. This would require the D8 to revert back to SDs again - however I think the main reason for the original swap was to provide extra capacity for school traffic along the A12 (which a revised 108 could then cover). Could also use the 108's 12m SDs on the D8 if they can fit at the Crossharbour end? You don’t need to swap 108/D8 - all you need to do is use Warton road (N205 route) instead of carpenter road |
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 25, 2022 20:35:43 GMT
Or an alternative option with the 108 could be to restore the previous 108/D8 routeings north of Poplar, allowing the 108 to use DDs to/from Stratford, then diverted through the Silvertown Tunnel. This would require the D8 to revert back to SDs again - however I think the main reason for the original swap was to provide extra capacity for school traffic along the A12 (which a revised 108 could then cover). Could also use the 108's 12m SDs on the D8 if they can fit at the Crossharbour end? You don’t need to swap 108/D8 - all you need to do is use Warton road (N205 route) instead of carpenter road You could leave the Stratford termini as they are, but would need to swap the routeings between and Poplar as there's another low bridge on Campbell Road. |
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Post by danorak on Oct 25, 2022 23:50:04 GMT
You don’t need to swap 108/D8 - all you need to do is use Warton road (N205 route) instead of carpenter road You could leave the Stratford termini as they are, but would need to swap the routeings between and Poplar as there's another low bridge on Campbell Road. The height sign on that bridge appears to be 14ft6in: double deck Scanias passed under it in the early days of the D8 and it was signed as 15ft until a couple of years ago. I wonder if works have reduced the clearance or if it's just been remeasured. |
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