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Post by snoggle on Nov 16, 2015 12:57:06 GMT
I'm not sure about the layout of the roads along the 192 route, the last time I've used it was a few years back between Angel Road Superstores and Enfield a few times and I recall it was slightly busy back then, although not overcrowded as it was around noon. Can the route accommodate 9.6m/10.2m SDs? If so then that coupled with a frequency increase to x8-10 mins could solve the overcrowding situation and it's good riddance to those hideous 8.8m Streetlites. Extending the W8 from Picketts Lock to Tottenham Hale via Meridian Way and the 192 could also help, however this may not make a considerable difference to the 192 situation alone so it might be a welcoming addition to the 192 receiving either a capacity or frequency increase, having both (if possible) might be excessive. There are several issues with the 192. 1. A lot of narrow residential roads used near Enfield Town and either side of Edmonton Green. 2. A very busy flow to / from the tube at Tottenham Hale from Montagu Road and north thereof. 3. Interchange between the 192 and 34 / 444 at Montagu Road which seems to be growing. 4. An unpredictable flow of unfamiliar users travelling to / from IKEA and these often return laden with bulky shopping. 5. Growing demand for transport of all sorts at Tottenham Hale and the local area. Notable that volumes at intermediate stops between T Hale and IKEA are growing. A few years ago the bus would simply drive past all those stops with no boarders / alighters. Not any more. The roads used in (1) constraint vehicle size and frequency. If you increase frequency too far then there is a risk of buses meeting head on on narrow roads and being unable to pass each other. That's why it's difficult to do the obvious things. It's also why a swap between the 192 and W8 to put double deckers on the southern section is superficially attractive but possibly not a complete long term solution. As I have suggested before a Walthamstow - Enfield service, using larger single deckers, could be added to overlap some elements of the 192 and to mop up some of the interchange flow at Montagu Road and at Silver St (between N-S and E-W routes). Providing a "round the corner" route covering several links would help bring some relief but I'm not so naive as to think that's a long term fix because a new route would undoubtedly generate more trips overall. The STAR rail link due in 3 years will be a big help because it will allow modal transfer on the southern section - IKEA visitors will almost certainly hop on a train to a resited Angel Rd station just beside IKEA and Tesco. However at the same time there will be hundreds and possible thousands on new homes built / being built in this area which will place yet more strain on the new rail service plus bus services which will have to be changed to serve the new residents. The 34 and 444 are already busy on this section and will get much more so as will the 192. New routes will have to be added in the area.
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 16, 2015 16:37:17 GMT
snoggle it's true about those stops on the 192 that used to be driven straight past - I used to be one of the few that would use Northumberland Park Depot stop, I imagine that has changed due to the growth of housing in the area. The buses leave Tottenham Hale already jam packed, so there's precious little hope of getting on the bus between there and IKEA. As for the rat runs of Town Road etc around Edmonton, and the small roads around Enfield (is Fotheringham Rd still part of the route?) I guess the buses are the ideal size, but they need a heck of a lot more But with them embarking on projects to change routes elsewhere like the 83, 436 and E8, I think the 192 is the least of TfL's problems due to their dwindling resources
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Route 192
Nov 18, 2015 21:18:07 GMT
via mobile
Post by bigbaddom1981 on Nov 18, 2015 21:18:07 GMT
So they replied
No evidence to suggest capacity issues? They must have some stringent criteria!
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Post by bigbaddom1981 on Nov 18, 2015 23:25:53 GMT
I'm thinking of putting together a film of a day in the life of a 192 passenger! Let's see if they can't find the evidence then!
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Post by snoggle on Nov 23, 2015 18:19:02 GMT
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Post by bigbaddom1981 on Nov 23, 2015 18:39:45 GMT
More evidence to send - with your permission I emailed them back and was quite strongly worded. They haven't got back to me yet. Will post email here
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Post by bigbaddom1981 on Nov 23, 2015 18:41:28 GMT
Email sent to tfl in reply to an earlier email I posted here
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Post by routew15 on Nov 23, 2015 18:56:01 GMT
bigbaddom1981 Thank you for continuing in sharing your ongoing correspondence with TfL on this matter. I'm finding it very interesting the response you are sending and the ones that you are receiving back. Please continue with the updates.
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Post by bigbaddom1981 on Nov 23, 2015 19:15:52 GMT
bigbaddom1981 Thank you for continuing in sharing your ongoing correspondence with TfL on this matter. I'm finding it very interesting the response you are sending and the ones that you are receiving back. Please continue with the updates. No worries. I'm trying to get the local Edmonton MP involved and of course I have the Travelwatch to contact should they not do anything about it. Because I have a full time job, it's not easy to get an all day look at the service, however anyone who wishes to share their experiences can do so and I'm more than happy for others to email tfl with my reference number.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 13:03:12 GMT
I will read this in full - but had to put my tupence in this, as this is my local route. The new Streetlites are a lot more spacious than the awful E200 buses; for a tall person like myself, the rear has a lot of leg room which is good but yes that route is terrible with overcrowding, reason is it's the only bus to Enfield from Tottenham Hale, via Edmonton. Yes Seven Sisters is near but logisically if you're at Tottenham Hale, another bus would do but then it boils down to cost.
Operators get penalised for curtailing buses due to traffic or light runnning - so operators try to maintain headway, but then if Go Ahead is suffering from staffing levels like some bus garages, then a 35 minute gap is probably correct as there's a bus missing or two rounders of that bus missing.
Im speculating, as I said i'll read this in full the whole topic as it's about time someone took it to the next stage. Edmonton's bus network is terrible, we only have the ONLY buses, 279 the ONLY bus to Waltham Cross (491 doesn't count), 349 doesn't do much good, Stamford Hill (middle of nowhere to Enfield garage - no where) and the 121 is the only bus from Enfield to Turnpike lane.
We're the ONLY area i call it when it comes to buses. The 144 is also hit and miss, never comes!
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Post by stubag on Dec 1, 2015 13:19:59 GMT
I will read this in full - but had to put my tupence in this, as this is my local route. The new Streetlites are a lot more spacious than the awful E200 buses; for a tall person like myself, the rear has a lot of leg room which is good but yes that route is terrible with overcrowding, reason is it's the only bus to Enfield from Tottenham Hale, via Edmonton. Yes Seven Sisters is near but logisically if you're at Tottenham Hale, another bus would do but then it boils down to cost. Operators get penalised for curtailing buses due to traffic or light runnning - so operators try to maintain headway, but then if Go Ahead is suffering from staffing levels like some bus garages, then a 35 minute gap is probably correct as there's a bus missing or two rounders of that bus missing. Im speculating, as I said i'll read this in full the whole topic as it's about time someone took it to the next stage. Edmonton's bus network is terrible, we only have the ONLY buses, 279 the ONLY bus to Waltham Cross (491 doesn't count), 349 doesn't do much good, Stamford Hill (middle of nowhere to Enfield garage - no where) and the 121 is the only bus from Enfield to Turnpike lane. We're the ONLY area i call it when it comes to buses. The 144 is also hit and miss, never comes! Would just like to correct you on something. Operators don't get penalised for traffic lost milage. Nor things like vomits on buses, road closure and accidents.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 1, 2015 13:24:28 GMT
I will read this in full - but had to put my tupence in this, as this is my local route. The new Streetlites are a lot more spacious than the awful E200 buses; for a tall person like myself, the rear has a lot of leg room which is good but yes that route is terrible with overcrowding, reason is it's the only bus to Enfield from Tottenham Hale, via Edmonton. Yes Seven Sisters is near but logisically if you're at Tottenham Hale, another bus would do but then it boils down to cost. Operators get penalised for curtailing buses due to traffic or light runnning - so operators try to maintain headway, but then if Go Ahead is suffering from staffing levels like some bus garages, then a 35 minute gap is probably correct as there's a bus missing or two rounders of that bus missing. Im speculating, as I said i'll read this in full the whole topic as it's about time someone took it to the next stage. Edmonton's bus network is terrible, we only have the ONLY buses, 279 the ONLY bus to Waltham Cross (491 doesn't count), 349 doesn't do much good, Stamford Hill (middle of nowhere to Enfield garage - no where) and the 121 is the only bus from Enfield to Turnpike lane. We're the ONLY area i call it when it comes to buses. The 144 is also hit and miss, never comes! Oh come on. Edmonton's bus network is not terrible. It has some of the most frequent routes in London. It's true that some routes are overcrowded and require attention but many are not. Most routes clock round pretty frequently because the operators are long established on the routes and basically know what they're doing. School times are hell but that's true London wide and the added complication for some of Edmonton's routes is that they run into Enfield borough which has high car usage and residential parking problems. Those issues cause delays and slow buses down. I've never had an extended wait for a bus at Edmonton - not even the 192 although it is in need of help as is the W6 and 279 (at times). I've never had a problem with the 102 or 144 and how you can dismiss the 491 out of hand when it's well used despite going to what seems "unpromising" territory I just don't know.
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Route 192
Dec 1, 2015 16:49:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by bigbaddom1981 on Dec 1, 2015 16:49:13 GMT
Had this reply end of last week. Not thought about my reply yet!
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Post by snoggle on Dec 1, 2015 16:59:10 GMT
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 1, 2015 20:34:45 GMT
"The capacity of an individual bus is the total number of passengers on board." Why can't TfL send someone to audit the number of passengers on the ground waiting to force their way onto the bus?
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