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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 16, 2023 18:38:44 GMT
Bromley area network review planned for 23/24 as well as a Lewisham/Catford review. Out come the crayons! 😂 Possibly a thinning out of the Lewisham to Catford direct corridor? I have often thought that one of the routes along there might be cut back (not that I agree with that!). I guess time will tell. Whilst Khan is around no cuts will happen..all it takes is a word from an MP and suddenly the money is found to save it. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 16, 2023 19:56:47 GMT
47 curtailed to Lewisham? Or even withdrawn completely with the 453 running to Lewisham via Brookmill Road. 47 being curtailed could very well be a possibility seeing as TFL have been trying to destroy the route for years now. It also shares the Bellingham - Canada Water section with 199 (excluding Greenwich, Pepys Estate and the northern part of Lower Road) which is starting a new contract soon with its current PVR. Obviously that wouldn't stop Totally Failing London from tampering with the route even if its tender has already been announced (see 346). 453 is already long as it is and a re-route to Lewisham offers no benefits when there are several routes in New Cross already doing that. I can see something being done about the 225 south of Hither Green. There was a proposal to extend it to Bellingham which was either scrapped or put on hold. I expect TFL will rationalise routes in the Bermondsey area at some point in the near future. I struggle to see how both the 47 and 381 can be justified between London Bridge and Canada Water. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 16, 2023 20:27:36 GMT
Bromley area network review planned for 23/24 as well as a Lewisham/Catford review. Out come the crayons! 😂 It seems that tfl like having fun destroying the bus network in pretty much every area of London (or will be getting there soon) |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 16, 2023 20:29:01 GMT
47 being curtailed could very well be a possibility seeing as TFL have been trying to destroy the route for years now. It also shares the Bellingham - Canada Water section with 199 (excluding Greenwich, Pepys Estate and the northern part of Lower Road) which is starting a new contract soon with its current PVR. Obviously that wouldn't stop Totally Failing London from tampering with the route even if its tender has already been announced (see 346). 453 is already long as it is and a re-route to Lewisham offers no benefits when there are several routes in New Cross already doing that. I can see something being done about the 225 south of Hither Green. There was a proposal to extend it to Bellingham which was either scrapped or put on hold. I expect TFL will rationalise routes in the Bermondsey area at some point in the near future. I struggle to see how both the 47 and 381 can be justified between London Bridge and Canada Water. Tbh I was surprised the 47 wasn't more involved in the central consultation. I thought tfl would be salivating at the savings that could made in making the 47 just a Canada Water to Catford feeder route. Or even withdrawn completely with the 381 and 199 ammending to maintain the local links and the rest left to various other routes (188/54/75/185/199/208/320) |
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Post by abellion on Jun 16, 2023 21:14:03 GMT
I expect TFL will rationalise routes in the Bermondsey area at some point in the near future. I struggle to see how both the 47 and 381 can be justified between London Bridge and Canada Water. Tbh I was surprised the 47 wasn't more involved in the central consultation. I thought tfl would be salivating at the savings that could made in making the 47 just a Canada Water to Catford feeder route. Or even withdrawn completely with the 381 and 199 ammending to maintain the local links and the rest left to various other routes (188/54/75/185/199/208/320) Putney is an even more obvious one, you can get alarmingly close to "fresh air" being an accurate description of the 14/414 and none of the 22/74/430 are struggling really. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 16, 2023 21:16:12 GMT
Tbh I was surprised the 47 wasn't more involved in the central consultation. I thought tfl would be salivating at the savings that could made in making the 47 just a Canada Water to Catford feeder route. Or even withdrawn completely with the 381 and 199 ammending to maintain the local links and the rest left to various other routes (188/54/75/185/199/208/320) Putney is an even more obvious one, you can get alarmingly close to "fresh air" being an accurate description of the 14/414 and none of the 22/74/430 are struggling really. We all know Khan didn't even read the consultation and just put the money up to 'save' the 14. At the end of the day higher fares, higher council tax will basically be the reality for him not making changes to any routes or to the Freedom pass age |
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Post by WH241 on Jun 16, 2023 21:24:07 GMT
Bromley area network review planned for 23/24 as well as a Lewisham/Catford review. Out come the crayons! 😂 It seems that tfl like having fun destroying the bus network in pretty much every area of London (or will be getting there soon) There have always been reviews of the network. Don’t forget TfL was bailed out and still needs to be cautious with the funding it has. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 16, 2023 22:17:28 GMT
Possibly a thinning out of the Lewisham to Catford direct corridor? I have often thought that one of the routes along there might be cut back (not that I agree with that!). I guess time will tell. Whilst Khan is around no cuts will happen..all it takes is a word from an MP and suddenly the money is found to save it. Khan has made plenty of cuts, most of which I’ve criticised as that’s how I’ve remembered them happening. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 16, 2023 22:21:11 GMT
Whilst Khan is around no cuts will happen..all it takes is a word from an MP and suddenly the money is found to save it. Khan has made plenty of cuts, most of which I’ve criticised as that’s how I’ve remembered them happening. Khan or TFL thou. I think the most the freq reductions were him letting TFL get on with it tbh |
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Post by rift on Jun 16, 2023 23:01:40 GMT
47 curtailed to Lewisham? Or even withdrawn completely with the 453 running to Lewisham via Brookmill Road. 47 being curtailed could very well be a possibility seeing as TFL have been trying to destroy the route for years now. It also shares the Bellingham - Canada Water section with 199 (excluding Greenwich, Pepys Estate and the northern part of Lower Road) which is starting a new contract soon with its current PVR. Obviously that wouldn't stop Totally Failing London from tampering with the route even if its tender has already been announced (see 346). 453 is already long as it is and a re-route to Lewisham offers no benefits when there are several routes in New Cross already doing that. I can see something being done about the 225 south of Hither Green. There was a proposal to extend it to Bellingham which was either scrapped or put on hold. If they do anything to the 225, I hope they also increase its frequency back to every 15 or preferably every 12. The route is rammed, especially during peaks. I have a feeling that at least one of the 199, 208 and 320 will also be involved, especially the sections after Lewisham. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 16, 2023 23:54:23 GMT
Khan has made plenty of cuts, most of which I’ve criticised as that’s how I’ve remembered them happening. Khan or TFL thou. I think the most the freq reductions were him letting TFL get on with it tbh Doesn't TfL answer to him and they merely implement what he says? |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 17, 2023 6:23:19 GMT
Khan or TFL thou. I think the most the freq reductions were him letting TFL get on with it tbh Doesn't TfL answer to him and they merely implement what he says? I think they are a bit independent but he has the casting vote. |
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 17, 2023 10:24:56 GMT
Regarding the 47, I don’t think the 453 would pick it up anyway. Too frequent and that would leave Deptford Church Street without a service. Wouldn’t want it to be disguised as bus improvements if that were to happen.
Instead, I imagine something from Lewisham would have to extend in place of the 47. Maybe the 284? It is single decker, however I imagine the Lewisham Hospital link being retained for residents would soften the blow.
To be honest, as many people here have said, it’s very surprising that the 47 hasn’t had something done to it earlier. I know that the Hayes Line no longer has services running into Cannon Street (London Overground to New Cross and then a Southeastern to Catford Bridge) however when you think about it, Bellingham to Shoreditch takes up to 100 minutes end to end. Improvements to the Overground, the introduction of the DLR and a 12-15 minute journey on Southeastern from London Bridge to Catford Bridge just seems far more appealing. Thameslink from Deptford into the city is now an option as well (albeit slightly more infrequent - but takes only 15 minutes).
And this isn’t without mentioning the number of nearby parallel services as some have mentioned. If the 225 does get extended to Bellingham, that’ll now be three routes from Canada Water to Bellingham (47, 199, 225). The 225 currently parallels the 47 from Lewisham Shopping Centre to Deptford Bridge (however as has been mentioned - it doesn’t have enough capacity and could do with an increase in frequency). The 199, as has been mentioned, has similar links to the 47 and would if the 47 were to be tampered with on the Catford end, be able to retain most of the links lost.
Again, not sure on what could replace the 47 (the 284 doesn’t sound like a great idea however it would be worth potentially letting this all unravel and see if there any routes that may in fact get split with one end able to take this section on).
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 17, 2023 11:02:08 GMT
So the 47 is the next route speculated to be withdrawn! After the 414 and 45/148 over the past two years that never came to fruition
It could possibly be thinned out to operate as a Lewisham to Shoreditch route as the route parallels the 199 for a lot of its journey. Surprised it wasn't tampered with in the central London changes last year!
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Post by ADH45258 on Jun 17, 2023 11:32:06 GMT
So the 47 is the next route speculated to be withdrawn! After the 414 and 45/148 over the past two years that never came to fruition It could possibly be thinned out to operate as a Lewisham to Shoreditch route as the route parallels the 199 for a lot of its journey. Surprised it wasn't tampered with in the central London changes last year! I alternatively wonder if the shorter 199 could be withdrawn instead? All links are covered by the 47, other than to/from Greenwich, and could divert the 47 in the Surrey Quays area to replace the 199. The 188 will continue to link Greenwich to Canada Water, and the 129 from Greenwich to Lewisham (plus the 129 will increase in frequency when extended through the Silvertown Tunnel). Don't know much much demand there is for a link from Greenwich through to Catford/Bellingham? Could maybe split something like the 54 or 208, with one section going to Cutty Sark? |
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