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Post by SILENCED on Oct 21, 2018 20:14:28 GMT
Me neither, pretty pointless protesting because the referendum didn't produce the outcome that they wanted. The point is that people were mislead with emotions and lies from the leave campaign in the referendum, people then didn't have an idea what brexit would entail hence why some people are calling for a vote on the final deal. Maybe if stay did not do such a misleading scare campaign ... then maybe they would not have driven so many to vote leave ... stay just thought they had it in the bag and just had to turn up and shout everyone down with scare stories ... but they got is oh so wrong. There where 2 camps of misinformation ... you can not blame one side more than the other on that front. |
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Post by planesandtrains on Oct 21, 2018 21:15:50 GMT
The point is that people were mislead with emotions and lies from the leave campaign in the referendum, people then didn't have an idea what brexit would entail hence why some people are calling for a vote on the final deal. Maybe if stay did not do such a misleading scare campaign ... then maybe they would not have driven so many to vote leave ... stay just thought they had it in the bag and just had to turn up and shout everyone down with scare stories ... but they got is oh so wrong. There where 2 camps of misinformation ... you can not blame one side more than the other on that front. I agree that the remain campaign wasn't in the green light and campaigned in a bad manner (the send out of the leaflets, all the scare tactics ) , but at the time no one really knew what brexit meant for the country, and so many options have turned out no one knows which one to take. That is why I say give the people a choice whether to go Norway style soft Brexit, 'Hard Brexit', or stay in on current terms (best deal in my opinion as we have so many concessions already) Ideally this vote would be binding so no one can overturn whatever happens. |
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Post by sid on Oct 21, 2018 21:20:03 GMT
Maybe if stay did not do such a misleading scare campaign ... then maybe they would not have driven so many to vote leave ... stay just thought they had it in the bag and just had to turn up and shout everyone down with scare stories ... but they got is oh so wrong. There where 2 camps of misinformation ... you can not blame one side more than the other on that front. I agree that the remain campaign wasn't in the green light and campaigned in a bad manner (the send out of the leaflets, all the scare tactics ) , but at the time no one really knew what brexit meant for the country, and so many options have turned out no one knows which one to take. That is why I say give the people a choice whether to go Norway style soft Brexit, 'Hard Brexit', or stay in on current terms (best deal in my opinion as we have so many concessions already) Ideally this vote would be binding so no one can overturn whatever happens. We've already had a vote that is binding! |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 21, 2018 21:39:47 GMT
Maybe if stay did not do such a misleading scare campaign ... then maybe they would not have driven so many to vote leave ... stay just thought they had it in the bag and just had to turn up and shout everyone down with scare stories ... but they got is oh so wrong. There where 2 camps of misinformation ... you can not blame one side more than the other on that front. I agree that the remain campaign wasn't in the green light and campaigned in a bad manner (the send out of the leaflets, all the scare tactics ) , but at the time no one really knew what brexit meant for the country, and so many options have turned out no one knows which one to take. That is why I say give the people a choice whether to go Norway style soft Brexit, 'Hard Brexit', or stay in on current terms (best deal in my opinion as we have so many concessions already) Ideally this vote would be binding so no one can overturn whatever happens. A referendum should be a once in a generation event ... not every few years, which is why Scotland will not be granted indyref2 for a long time. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 21, 2018 21:54:10 GMT
Maybe if stay did not do such a misleading scare campaign ... then maybe they would not have driven so many to vote leave ... stay just thought they had it in the bag and just had to turn up and shout everyone down with scare stories ... but they got is oh so wrong. There where 2 camps of misinformation ... you can not blame one side more than the other on that front. I agree that the remain campaign wasn't in the green light and campaigned in a bad manner (the send out of the leaflets, all the scare tactics ) , but at the time no one really knew what brexit meant for the country, and so many options have turned out no one knows which one to take. That is why I say give the people a choice whether to go Norway style soft Brexit, 'Hard Brexit', or stay in on current terms (best deal in my opinion as we have so many concessions already) Ideally this vote would be binding so no one can overturn whatever happens. Flaw with your option is what happen if the combined leave vote, soft + hard exceeds the remain ... but remain is the largest single vote ... which it probably would be as your questions would just be splitting the remain vote. Referendums need to have 2 options only, or it gets very complicated. And is Norway the model you would really choose? So given your suggestion ... how would you declare the result where leave was the largest but a minority vote, whilst the 2 leave options received the majority of the vote, but individually came 2nd and 3rd. |
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Post by Paul on Oct 21, 2018 22:14:29 GMT
My question would be are Remainers unable to see that their constant wailing and gnashing of teeth is the exact reason Britain hasn’t been able to negotiate a good deal for Brexit? The EU have taken one look at the Remainers and decided there’s a good chance the government will cave and give the country a second referendum and a chance to vote the ‘right’ way
Had the Remainers taken the initial result on the chin and presented a united front with the Leavers and told the EU that we WERE leaving then the EU would have had no choice but to sit down and negotiate a good deal. I still firmly believe a good deal is in the interests of both parties but if it’s No Deal then that’s what we have to deal with
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Post by planesandtrains on Oct 21, 2018 22:36:29 GMT
I agree that the remain campaign wasn't in the green light and campaigned in a bad manner (the send out of the leaflets, all the scare tactics ) , but at the time no one really knew what brexit meant for the country, and so many options have turned out no one knows which one to take. That is why I say give the people a choice whether to go Norway style soft Brexit, 'Hard Brexit', or stay in on current terms (best deal in my opinion as we have so many concessions already) Ideally this vote would be binding so no one can overturn whatever happens. We've already had a vote that is binding! It was not binding, it was simply an advisory. I always say one thing about Brexit, people will not change their minds until it starts affecting them, the money in their purse, the food prices, their jobs... |
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Post by busaholic on Oct 21, 2018 22:43:38 GMT
My solution to the Irish border 'problem' would be to remove the border altogether, by the simple expedient of announcing that, as part of Brexit,the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would cease to exist on 29th March 2019 too, with Great Britain going it alone. I'm sure that in a referendum a whopping majority would vote for N.I. to stand on its own two feet, which would save the average taxpayer in England a hefty amount every year used to subsidise that place. Whether the people of Northern Ireland chose to integrate with the south or try to be independent would be up to them, and no longer a British problem.
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Post by sid on Oct 22, 2018 5:42:57 GMT
We've already had a vote that is binding! It was not binding, it was simply an advisory. I always say one thing about Brexit, people will not change their minds until it starts affecting them, the money in their purse, the food prices, their jobs... It was a one off vote, it wasn't some sort of dry run with a view to doing the real thing at a later date and maybe make it the best of three. There's a clear mandate to leave the EU and anything else would make a mockery of democracy in this country. So when are these problems going to happen? According to many doom mongers these problems were going to happen as soon as the vote was known but two years on there's no sign of them. What we've had is constant 'project fear', it amazes me how little faith some people have in this country. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 22, 2018 7:28:55 GMT
My solution to the Irish border 'problem' would be to remove the border altogether, by the simple expedient of announcing that, as part of Brexit,the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would cease to exist on 29th March 2019 too, with Great Britain going it alone. I'm sure that in a referendum a whopping majority would vote for N.I. to stand on its own two feet, which would save the average taxpayer in England a hefty amount every year used to subsidise that place. Whether the people of Northern Ireland chose to integrate with the south or try to be independent would be up to them, and no longer a British problem. Wow ... Shall we just get rid of Wales and Scotland while we are at it! |
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Post by busman on Oct 22, 2018 13:53:42 GMT
It was not binding, it was simply an advisory. I always say one thing about Brexit, people will not change their minds until it starts affecting them, the money in their purse, the food prices, their jobs... It was a one off vote, it wasn't some sort of dry run with a view to doing the real thing at a later date and maybe make it the best of three. There's a clear mandate to leave the EU and anything else would make a mockery of democracy in this country. So when are these problems going to happen? According to many doom mongers these problems were going to happen as soon as the vote was known but two years on there's no sign of them. What we've had is constant 'project fear', it amazes me how little faith some people have in this country. I agree. The whinging has been ridiculous. I voted to remain and I still believe we would be better off within the EU. However the vote was won by the Brexiteers, so we must leave. I favour a so called “hard Brexit” rather than remaining partly in, contributing money and following EU rules without having a say. The UK can stand on its own feet for sure. The biggest threat to our success is our people. We need to lose our sense of entitlement and get serious about upgrading the skills we have and maximising wealth creation. We should be teaching about personal financial management and entrepreneurship in schools. Vocational education should also become more mainstream. The UK no longer has cheap labour from the Commenwealth to prop it up so we have to roll up our sleeves and graft for every penny and every customer - much like people in many countries outside the EU already do. Let’s not pretend that the UK is going to get a good deal with the likes of the EU, US, China and India. Those markets are too big to be pushed around by us and will demand considerable concessions as part of any trade agreement. The only way to counter that is for the UK to create an environment with significant spending power and intellectual capital that international businesses cannot afford not to do business in. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 22, 2018 14:33:45 GMT
My solution to the Irish border 'problem' would be to remove the border altogether, by the simple expedient of announcing that, as part of Brexit,the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland would cease to exist on 29th March 2019 too, with Great Britain going it alone. I'm sure that in a referendum a whopping majority would vote for N.I. to stand on its own two feet, which would save the average taxpayer in England a hefty amount every year used to subsidise that place. Whether the people of Northern Ireland chose to integrate with the south or try to be independent would be up to them, and no longer a British problem. Wow ... Shall we just get rid of Wales and Scotland while we are at it! It might be in our benefit to 'get rid' of Scotland even though I'd prefer to keep the Union intact. |
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Post by Pilot on Oct 24, 2018 8:44:29 GMT
I think it's going to be really exciting times for I and NI when Brexit happens, because that border will become its Calais cousin and EU will be laughing their ass off.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 28, 2018 13:46:21 GMT
Maybe if stay did not do such a misleading scare campaign ... then maybe they would not have driven so many to vote leave ... stay just thought they had it in the bag and just had to turn up and shout everyone down with scare stories ... but they got is oh so wrong. There where 2 camps of misinformation ... you can not blame one side more than the other on that front. I agree that the remain campaign wasn't in the green light and campaigned in a bad manner (the send out of the leaflets, all the scare tactics ) , but at the time no one really knew what brexit meant for the country, and so many options have turned out no one knows which one to take. That is why I say give the people a choice whether to go Norway style soft Brexit, 'Hard Brexit', or stay in on current terms (best deal in my opinion as we have so many concessions already) Ideally this vote would be binding so no one can overturn whatever happens. At least this would be a vote on a specific government deal/proposal, which the 2016 vote was not. The government had no Leave prospectus then, and even instructed Civil Sevants not to prepare for a Leave result. |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 28, 2018 13:50:52 GMT
My question would be are Remainers unable to see that their constant wailing and gnashing of teeth is the exact reason Britain hasn’t been able to negotiate a good deal for Brexit? The EU have taken one look at the Remainers and decided there’s a good chance the government will cave and give the country a second referendum and a chance to vote the ‘right’ way Had the Remainers taken the initial result on the chin and presented a united front with the Leavers and told the EU that we WERE leaving then the EU would have had no choice but to sit down and negotiate a good deal. I still firmly believe a good deal is in the interests of both parties but if it’s No Deal then that’s what we have to deal with The winning (Leave) side must be having doubts about their victory if they are finding something to blame the losing (Remain) side for .... However, given that a majority of Labour as well as a majority of Conservative constituencies had a Leave result, it is a pity that MPs from all sides have not worked together for the smoothest possible Brexit to minimise the harm to anybody. |
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