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Post by enviroPB on May 16, 2024 19:39:42 GMT
Absolutely no chance of the Tube heading down to Orpington when the Bakerloo line hasn't even made it to Lewisham, and that is projected to be a decade later than the original early 2030s deadline if it does happen. The Overground to Orpington is doable though, it wouldn't take much investment and it's a simple extension from services already terminating at New Cross.
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Post by enviroPB on May 16, 2024 15:41:43 GMT
Now that the 310 has been added to the tender schedule, I wonder what routing it will take between Golders Green and Stamford Hill? As others have suggested, Golders Green Station is rammed for stand space. I can think of two options: 1. Remove drop off/parking spaces on the H2/H3 stand and convert to stand space for the 310. The first stop for the 310 will be GJ outside Hillsong Church sharing a common stop with the 210 OR 2. Extend to Hendon Brent Green, which has a free stand available. Pros: will serve a larger catchment of the Jewish community and also benefits all passengers by providing new bus links from Hendon beyond Golders Green. Cons: loss of stand space for existing routes to be curtailed. What route will the 310 follow to Stamford Hill? Stoke Newington also has a large Jewish community, so perhaps a routing via Stoke Newington would be beneficial? The most obvious route seems to be for buses to follow route 210 to Archway then continue on to Holloway then up to Finsbury Park and via Seven Sisters Road to Stamford Hill. That would provide some handy around the corner links, but maybe a little too duplicative of the 210? Having a flicker on Google Maps, it is unlikely for the 310 to serve a lot of new roads in the manor of the Jonathon Rosses and Harry Styles that is Hampstead. It will likely be a carbon copy of the 210 from Golders Green up to Crouch End, assuming it's deckers then a detour down Hornsey Road to reach Finsbury Park. What I would say is that it would be entirely beneficial for TfL to send the 310 down the length of Lordship Road to reach Stoke Newington. The development at Woodberry Down is devoid of a bus service there and it would prove popular in patronage. That would mean the 310 not taking the most direct route from Manor House to Stamford Hill and likely installing traffic lights at the junction with Stoke Newington Church Street, but it would ensure a stronger patronage.
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Post by enviroPB on May 16, 2024 13:20:21 GMT
Or, hear me out, leave the 94N alone and extend the N27 to Hounslow instead. An extended N27 could alleviate the N9 from Hounslow bus station to High Street Kensington, a much longer distance than a proposed N94 extension. Passengers from Hounslow can easily change buses at Hammersmith (N72, 220, 295) for Shepherd's Bush. I think the N27 is the only night route that is shorter than its day variant. It might as well be extended, it is the more cost effective option over the 94N. The N27 would make sense. Could take it to Hounslow, Bell corner. There is that option, though with the 222 already covering that stretch and the 111 and 281 serving AV at night, that's why I proposed it should terminate there. So long as there's toilet facilities at Bell Corner, I wouldn't totally be against it.
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Post by enviroPB on May 16, 2024 13:14:07 GMT
I think Canning Town needs a West Croydon style rebuild. The lack of scaffolding being removed suggests whatever work is required is extremely major and it's just easier to leave the scaffolding support up instead. As nice as the current West Croydon Bus Station is, it still has a major flaw that the old one didn’t - it’s open to the elements. That needs to be taken into consideration when replacing these bus stations That has been taken into consideration- bus stations nowadays are deliberately designed to be as 'open air' as possible to deter homeless people sleeping in what was enclosed spaces. I remember reading the Newham Mag at the time of the Olympics which boldly & blatantly stated just that about Stratford bus station's redesign. It is reminiscent of homeless spikes sadly.
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Post by enviroPB on May 16, 2024 10:11:54 GMT
Not the thread for speculation, but in terms of a base LI is more suited towards the 241, 330 and 474 than HK. From Wanstead Park* or Manor Park to the A12 isn't too far for 330 and 474 drivers respectively, likewise heading to the A12 from Canning Town/Silvertown. 330 and 241 might go LI 474 to BK if all three routes retain. I doubt there's space at BK now the 238 has moved in, but I could be wrong.
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Post by enviroPB on May 16, 2024 0:27:28 GMT
The stations have aged wonderfully. Always a delight to be in one. The bus stations, not so much. I would have to strongly disagree with you on your second point. Canada Water, North Greenwich and Canning Town bus stations have aged rather beautifully and barely give off they're 25 years of age! I think the architects did a wonderful job encapturing a futuristic look and the way they've used the glass panels gives for a more spacious feel. Stratford should be included in the list but was refurbished for the Olympics in 2012. Still agree with everyone though that the Jubilee stations have barely aged in that time. The designs are so futuristic that Canary Wharf Station was used in filming for a Star Wars movie!
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Post by enviroPB on May 16, 2024 0:12:05 GMT
On a side note, what are the opinions of the people with the tenders of the 330, 474 and 241 that might be appear in the near future? Honestly I can see all 3 heading to Blue Triangle, all three could be operated out of SI! Depends if SI were to get wired up or something. On another note, 241 could be staying with Stagecoach being operated from LI. Not sure how far Wanstead or Manor Park is from LI for the 330 or 474.. Not the thread for speculation, but in terms of a base LI is more suited towards the 241, 330 and 474 than HK. From Wanstead Park* or Manor Park to the A12 isn't too far for 330 and 474 drivers respectively, likewise heading to the A12 from Canning Town/Silvertown.
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Post by enviroPB on May 15, 2024 22:54:32 GMT
Could it be worth extending the N53 to Marylebone, with the 453(N) withdrawn? This would bring the N53 further into the West end than terminating randomly at Whitehall & also reduce capacity between Whitehall & Deptford. An extended N53 to Marylebone would see a total journey time of 69 mins during weeknights and about 77 minutes during the weekends. Entirely workable, but there are a couple issues. First is that Old Kent Road needs the combined capacity of the N53 and 453 during weekend nights; TfL tried to cut both routes down to 3bph during the weekends after the introduction of Night Overground and both routes struggled. Both the N53 and 453N were increased to every 15 mins a couple months in. Second thing to mention is the N53 crossing the heart of central London will open it up to more disruption, delays and diversions. People on Plumstead Common will pay the price for problems at Piccadilly Circus.
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Post by enviroPB on May 15, 2024 21:49:40 GMT
From memory LI has the capacity for circa 230 buses, so why aren't buses being stored there when there's ample space? You have exercised caution in the past about WH closing but I cannot? Once there is something official saying WH is definitively closing then I will update my skepticism to fact. Wasn't there an official notice that was released around the time of the 323 tender? Can't say I have until tonight. Thanks to MMS2001 for quoting the announcement.
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Post by enviroPB on May 15, 2024 20:50:27 GMT
New buses tend to be stored at an operator's headquarters to be registered before going into service. Given LI is a Stagecoach subsidiary, the W5's Metrocities should really be stored at WH. The fact it's being stored at HK means it is more likely Stagecoach have, internally at least, declared HK as their new HQ for operations given the company likely won't renew the West Ham lease with TfL. LI is going to be the new HQ as far as I am aware. Never heard anything about buses having to be stored at the HQ and buses have always been stored at wherever there is space! WH used to be used as that had the most space and as its being wound down it makes sense to use HK and LI.
You don't seem to believe the lease is not being renewed but look at the facts there will have three 3 routes all up on tender once the 323 and 277 go to HK.
From memory LI has the capacity for circa 230 buses, so why aren't buses being stored there when there's ample space? You have exercised caution in the past about WH closing but I cannot? Once there is something official saying WH is definitively closing then I will update my skepticism to fact.
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Post by enviroPB on May 15, 2024 19:41:58 GMT
I know this is mentioned but seriously, need to look at the N9. That route gets full so badly. If tfl won’t even consider to bump the route to every 20 minutes then could another night service help assist that? Or even extending an existing night service: extend 94 night service to Hounslow and renumber to N94? (Yes, there was a consultation mentioning the N94, there are blinded too) Will the N94 take the 237’s LOR to Hounslow, but terminating at Bell Corner (E8 stand). This would mean some parts of Acton/Turnham Green would lose their bus service at night but I imagine that shouldn’t be a big deal. Or, hear me out, leave the 94N alone and extend the N27 to Hounslow instead. An extended N27 could alleviate the N9 from Hounslow bus station to High Street Kensington, a much longer distance than a proposed N94 extension. Passengers from Hounslow can easily change buses at Hammersmith (N72, 220, 295) for Shepherd's Bush. I think the N27 is the only night route that is shorter than its day variant. It might as well be extended, it is the more cost effective option over the 94N.
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Post by enviroPB on May 15, 2024 19:13:30 GMT
In HK there has been about 20 metro cities there for about 2 months Oh interesting, guess they're not going to be stored at LI then.. New buses tend to be stored at an operator's headquarters to be registered before going into service. Given LI is a Stagecoach subsidiary, the W5's Metrocities should really be stored at WH. The fact it's being stored at HK means it is more likely Stagecoach have, internally at least, declared HK as their new HQ for operations given the company likely won't renew the West Ham lease with TfL.
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Post by enviroPB on May 15, 2024 18:30:59 GMT
The 235 is an absolute farce once again. The amount of Busch Corner turns is ridiculous. Not unusual to see 3 or 4 in a row all turned then parking up and blocking the road up as there is no stand for this turn! I’m amazed it seems to be one of the few current RATP running to at least the full length five year term, and not being handed back. Given their performance it must be causing them an arm and a leg in fines After RATP got the route, a gentleman from north London had this to say on the company running the 235.
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Post by enviroPB on May 15, 2024 15:36:03 GMT
I have mentioned this in the past normally around Carnival time, but I do think there needs to be extra services at night during bank holiday weekends. In particular, Sunday nights need extra services on core routes and/or extras on busy night routes, as on a bank holiday weekend Sunday nights are just another Friday/Saturday night in terms of usage levels. A broad but not exact mirroring of extras placed on NYE would go some way to helping punters go home, and only out to main hubs/suburbs and not the full route would do. The weekend op on N8s with Stratford shorts for example, likewise with the N18 shorts to Subury. Trunk routes like the N9, N15, N87 etc. should at least see shorts to Hammersmith, Barking and Wimbledon respectively. Passengers struggling to head home stifles the very apparent night-time economy that exists over these weekends, as was demonstrated to me a few nights ago. I bumped into some Portuguese businessmen at Ludgate Circus who waited 30 mins for the N15 which were rammed, but I too was surprised by the N551's subscription as I suggested this alternative route for them to head home. I'm also not saying this has to be done every bank holiday weekend, Easters are pretty quiet for example. But for international tourists to limit their time out in central London at night because they knew beforehand it's a struggle to get home at night on buses is something that could fairly easily be sorted out with extras. Just a thought. What did you mean by ‘subscription’ in relation to the N551? That the route was well used? Yes, it was more than well used that night! I normally use the N551 as an alternative to Canning Town if it comes first when I'm in central, and I noticed the numbers were vastly more than a couple days prior when I caught it. I assume other passengers were doing the same after failing to board the N15 for 30+ mins.
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Post by enviroPB on May 13, 2024 22:52:52 GMT
Those metrics are simply forecasts off manipulated data; Night Tube was projected to break even in 5 years of operating but only took 18 months. There's always the argument of cost before a pioneering project, but Crossrail and the Night Tube's success make that argument a distant memory. Granted Night Tube doesn't run on the whole network, that's likely down to infrastructure issues more than cost benefit rationale. Again I'm not asking for the Tube to run 24/7 as I simply don't think we have the spare rail capacity like New York for all night running & sufficient engineering work to be done simultaneously. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I can think of a few cons but one place to benefit from a 24/7 Tube would be Heathrow with the Piccadilly line. Luton and Gatwick airports certainly aren't suffering from a 24 hour Thameslink service. Maybe once they refurbish the track as is planned on the section of Crossrail between Hayes and Harlington and Paddington they could consider 24/7 Crossrail to Heathrow. Judging by the fact Night Overground cannot run past New Cross due to TfL not owning the rails south of there, I don't think it's likely to happen. Crossrail only own track between Stratford/Abbey Wood to Westbourne Park, so are free to run trains 24/7 there. However there's enough track capacity on the GWR tracks west of Paddington, so it is entirely possible to run services out to Heathrow with agreement from National Rail. A nightly Crossrail service in the form of hourly Abbey Wood- Heathrow trains may work, though I'd imagine Stratford may fare better in custom. However seeing as there is a depot near Abbey Wood, the former option would look more attractive to TfL.
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