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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 22, 2023 21:13:26 GMT
So they didn't even bother have a public consultation on this one? Who tf qualifies as a 'key stakeholder'? Their corporate buzzwords give me cringe shivers. They did have a consultation tangytango.proboards.com/post/745390/thread as you can see at post number 1
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 22, 2023 21:14:55 GMT
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 22, 2023 21:18:51 GMT
Had a feeling that London was subsidising the people travelling in from elsewhere who'd include a travelcard on their ticket. No reason why we should be paying for their travel so a good decision in the end.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 22, 2023 21:31:20 GMT
Maybe I am missing something with this but I imagine like others have said usage of paper tickets is minimal. I can't tell you the last time I see a passenger use a paper ticket in a ticket machine on the tube or show one to a bus driver!
TfL must have the data to back this up. The majority of travel is paid for using debit cards and phones, I even rarely even see Oyster cards being used. I don't think there was this much outrage when buses went cashless for example.
There was a massive outrage when buses went cashless, I remember it on news etc. Disability and elderly groups as well as people outside London was against it. I do still see a lot of people use Oyster cards. The ones I cannot stand is people using their phones, sick of that crap and they take so long and slow. I agree! Paying by phone seems such a slow process! Hopefully as technology advances the process will speed up.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 22, 2023 21:33:37 GMT
There was a massive outrage when buses went cashless, I remember it on news etc. Disability and elderly groups as well as people outside London was against it. I do still see a lot of people use Oyster cards. The ones I cannot stand is people using their phones, sick of that crap and they take so long and slow. I agree! Paying by phone seems such a slow process! Hopefully as technology advances the process will speed up. It's slow on Apple Pay, not on Google Pay. Apple Pay requires you to double tap to activate the card, and then to further confirm with your Face before it then beams to the reader which takes forever. Google Pay on the other hand just needs to have your phone unlocked, which can be done with a fingerprint and the phone always has it running regardless whenever the phone is unlocked so all you need to do is touch the phone straight on the reader.
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Post by uakari on Jul 22, 2023 21:44:41 GMT
So they didn't even bother have a public consultation on this one? Who tf qualifies as a 'key stakeholder'? Their corporate buzzwords give me cringe shivers. They did have a consultation tangytango.proboards.com/post/745390/thread as you can see at post number 1 Inviting people to ask questions and pretending you're going to answer them isn't really a 'consultation'. It's trying to get round actually having to listen to people's views. Not that I bother responding to any TfL consultation any more anyway, because they always do what they want regardless.
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Post by ibus246 on Jul 22, 2023 22:21:34 GMT
I agree! Paying by phone seems such a slow process! Hopefully as technology advances the process will speed up. It's slow on Apple Pay, not on Google Pay. Apple Pay requires you to double tap to activate the card, and then to further confirm with your Face before it then beams to the reader which takes forever. Google Pay on the other hand just needs to have your phone unlocked, which can be done with a fingerprint and the phone always has it running regardless whenever the phone is unlocked so all you need to do is touch the phone straight on the reader. Not really true with Apple Pay since express travel card mode was introduced just requires you to put your phone to a reader without all the double tapping and face i.d
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 22, 2023 22:44:41 GMT
Inviting people to ask questions and pretending you're going to answer them isn't really a 'consultation'. It's trying to get round actually having to listen to people's views. Not that I bother responding to any TfL consultation any more anyway, because they always do what they want regardless. Fair point. One of the reasons I never bother with consultations is they never listen and to me is just a democratic way of saying we are going to do this whether you like it or not.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 22, 2023 22:49:11 GMT
Inviting people to ask questions and pretending you're going to answer them isn't really a 'consultation'. It's trying to get round actually having to listen to people's views. Not that I bother responding to any TfL consultation any more anyway, because they always do what they want regardless. Fair point. One of the reasons I never bother with consultations is they never listen and to me is just a democratic way of saying we are going to do this whether you like it or not. Apart from the Central London one and the proposed changes to the 11/19/22/311.
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Post by uakari on Jul 22, 2023 22:56:26 GMT
Fair point. One of the reasons I never bother with consultations is they never listen and to me is just a democratic way of saying we are going to do this whether you like it or not. Apart from the Central London one and the proposed changes to the 11/19/22/311. That was just a way of trying to scare the government into giving them even more money. They have always already decided what they are going to do and how to spin it.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 23, 2023 3:44:58 GMT
Apart from the Central London one and the proposed changes to the 11/19/22/311. That was just a way of trying to scare the government into giving them even more money. They have always already decided what they are going to do and how to spin it. The 11, 19, 22 & 311 had nothing to do with that though nor did other consultations that were consulted on and then amended or dropped entirely such as the 315's consultation regarding Peabody Estate in Tulse Hill - the residents kicked up a fuss and TfL subsequently proceeded to drop it so whilst most are pretty much tick box exercises, some are not already decided
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jul 23, 2023 17:46:29 GMT
Now I’m truly stuck, I live in China and coming to England on the 22nd July for 4 days, have learnt the Heathrow FreeFlow Bus Scheme doesn’t work!!!!!! Secondly my Chinese Bank cards doesn’t work on the transportation and have no choice but to purchase an oyster card at Heathrow Airport however I understand that now this is not refundable!!!!! It’s ripping people off whom can’t use contactless….very disappointed! This would affect many others, the same way it did when the bus system went cashless. I remember countless tourists who tried to pay on board, then their foreign bank cards did not work. They usually got off and would say they would take a taxi instead or not bother to make the trip. It has also encouraged fare evasion and drivers who I do not blame cannot be bothered. If someone attempts to pay and the system is no longer geared up for it, just give them a free ride. Even passengers from the rest of the UK don't seem very used to the system here. Countless passengers I've seen asking for 'two singles' or 'a single adult and child' with a single Contactless card like you would in the rest of the country -- in the first case, usually no problem, they manage to find a second card, in the second which I saw happen today, the driver just let the teenager on without hassling them with finding another card.
Whilst China may very well be a pain with everything going cashless -- especially when your foreign credit card might not work (or you might not want to pay the foreign transaction fee) -- at the very least they still accept cash more often than not on public transport. Wish the same could be done here.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 23, 2023 18:09:36 GMT
This would affect many others, the same way it did when the bus system went cashless. I remember countless tourists who tried to pay on board, then their foreign bank cards did not work. They usually got off and would say they would take a taxi instead or not bother to make the trip. It has also encouraged fare evasion and drivers who I do not blame cannot be bothered. If someone attempts to pay and the system is no longer geared up for it, just give them a free ride. Even passengers from the rest of the UK don't seem very used to the system here. Countless passengers I've seen asking for 'two singles' or 'a single adult and child' with a single Contactless card like you would in the rest of the country -- in the first case, usually no problem, they manage to find a second card, in the second which I saw happen today, the driver just let the teenager on without hassling them with finding another card.
Whilst China may very well be a pain with everything going cashless -- especially when your foreign credit card might not work (or you might not want to pay the foreign transaction fee) -- at the very least they still accept cash more often than not on public transport. Wish the same could be done here.
I've seen those scenarios in Central London with the driver opening the cab door to try and explain things to confused visitors and just giving up in the end and letting them go for free. As far as I'm aware cash is still accepted on all other buses in the UK?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 23, 2023 18:12:43 GMT
Even passengers from the rest of the UK don't seem very used to the system here. Countless passengers I've seen asking for 'two singles' or 'a single adult and child' with a single Contactless card like you would in the rest of the country -- in the first case, usually no problem, they manage to find a second card, in the second which I saw happen today, the driver just let the teenager on without hassling them with finding another card.
Whilst China may very well be a pain with everything going cashless -- especially when your foreign credit card might not work (or you might not want to pay the foreign transaction fee) -- at the very least they still accept cash more often than not on public transport. Wish the same could be done here.
I've seen those scenarios in Central London with the driver opening the cab door to try and explain things to confused visitors and just giving up in the end and letting them go for free. As far as I'm aware cash is still accepted on all other buses in the UK? Although there are many systems globally where you have to physically buy a ticket somewhere that's not the driver. Buying an Oyster card is no different. The entire system in Dubai relies on Nol cards and you cannot pay by cash apart from at ticket machines. Although they do have disposable ones which are NFC enabled which are cheap to produce, and if Oyster has a paper version that you can tap it might be better in the long term to persuade people to use them but not have a deposit as they're just made out of paper.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 10, 2023 22:23:10 GMT
Plans to scrap London travelcards 'discriminatory'Surrey County Council could call on the government to intervene in “discriminatory” plans to scrap day travelcards in to London.www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3gr77e6g60o
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