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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Dec 8, 2023 18:03:17 GMT
Well it is highly likely the 549 would be withdrawn and Sullivan's would not get anything out of the two other routes which would be under Stagecoach (Tower Transit) and Stagecoach (CT Plus) A 1 bus pvr is not going to turn into a windfall of 12 pvr; do the maths! The fact they didn't keep the 549 number says it all I agree especially as its been suggested here that Sullivans are disappointment by the outcome. I did find that s a little strange as they seem to want out of TfL work.
Do you know if there is a break clause on 5 year tenders? as this would then most likely be around September 2024 when the the new tenders for the W12, W13 and W14 are due to start. 3 years in, just like what happened with the 283/23/C3/371/65/281/71 etc
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Post by WH241 on Dec 8, 2023 18:19:01 GMT
I agree especially as its been suggested here that Sullivans are disappointment by the outcome. I did find that s a little strange as they seem to want out of TfL work.
Do you know if there is a break clause on 5 year tenders? as this would then most likely be around September 2024 when the the new tenders for the W12, W13 and W14 are due to start. 3 years in, just like what happened with the 283/23/C3/371/65/281/71 etc Thanks for confirming! I was thinking it was shorter on 5 year tenders.
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 8, 2023 18:45:25 GMT
3 years in, just like what happened with the 283/23/C3/371/65/281/71 etc Thanks for confirming! I was thinking it was shorter on 5 year tenders. Whereas the fixed 7 years terms can only be broken at 4 years.
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Post by va59 on Jan 5, 2024 7:13:10 GMT
Anyone know when we are likely to get confirmation of these changes etc?
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Post by MMS2001 on Jan 16, 2024 12:05:35 GMT
Stagecoach have retained W12 W13 and W14 to go ahead with the changes proposed in the consultation. W12 and W14 will continue to run from Walthamstow Avenue (W12) and Lea Interchange (W14) and W13 will likely move to Lea Interchange too. No announcement as to when this change will begin.
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Post by MMS2001 on Jan 16, 2024 12:19:22 GMT
The consultation page has been updated and states: "It is expected that the restructuring of routes W12, W13 and W14 and withdrawal of route 549 will take place in September 2024"
All changes will proceed as originally proposed in the consultation
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Post by joefrombow on Jan 16, 2024 13:46:49 GMT
The consultation page has been updated and states: "It is expected that the restructuring of routes W12, W13 and W14 and withdrawal of route 549 will take place in September 2024" All changes will proceed as originally proposed in the consultation How long till the W549 gets restructured or cut back to Monday to Saturdays and no evenings again ? Bad results in my opinion sad to see the W14 go but suppose changes have to be made , not the last I guess for a while .
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Post by VMH2537 on Jan 16, 2024 14:03:34 GMT
Update 16 January 2024 Today we have published the results of this consultation. We received 863 responses to the consultation and would like to thank everyone that took part. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and other stakeholders, we have decided to implement the original proposals as follows: Route W12 – will be restructured to operate between Coppermill Lane and Woodford Bridge via Church Hill Road as proposed Route W13 – will be extended to Leyton, Asda as proposed Route W14 – will be restructured to operate between Loughton Station and Whipps Cross Interchange as proposed Route 549 – will be withdrawn and replaced with the extended route W14 as proposed It is expected that the restructuring of routes W12, W13 and W14 and withdrawal of route 549 will take place in September 2024. Details of the feedback we received, our response to the issues raised, and more information about next steps can be found in the consultation report. haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/25100/widgets/70986/documents/53532
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Post by VMH2537 on Jan 16, 2024 17:39:18 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak.
To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jan 16, 2024 18:02:11 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. I agree that some of these proposals don't make sense but I think it started with W12 requiring a frequency increase then LBWF not budging and things got out of hand. Also not easy to get short electrics. If TfL don't amend based on these responses then you are unlikely to amend anything. This one was genuinely not a consultation based on the LBWF stance. The required infrastructure changes is in Coppermill Lane to accommodate the new longer electrics. Things to note on report: - The forum gets a mention. Does that usually happen? - '358 coming soon.' But that has been the case for a while.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2024 18:03:15 GMT
Quoting Dean Sullivan comments on The Londoner Facebook group, seems like TfL didn't care about any comments made in the consultation and had their eyes set on going ahead with the plan since the very beginning. Not surprising.....
"TfL have told us informally that they intend to withdraw the 549. There’s been no discussion with us at all. Frankly communication with TFL is very poor currently. Well certainly with us!"
"We were informally told about two months ago that as part of the consultation, the 549 was to be withdrawn and replaced by the extended W14. This is therefore the case. My disappointment is that sometime ago they pledged to improve consultation with their suppliers in order that they could take into account operators experiences etc. We found out about the consultation through posts on the internet. Since then and other than an informal comment made at a meeting referred to above, no formal discussion have yet taken place. Like I say TfLs engagement has been very poor. The good news is that Claire Mann is returning to TfL. She managed buses during the Covid crisis before moving to SWT. She was renown for seeking the views of all operators both large and small and empowering her managers to make decisions. Hopefully this is a turning point for TfL."
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Post by WH241 on Jan 16, 2024 18:34:33 GMT
Quoting Dean Sullivan comments on the London Facebook group, seems like TfL didn't care about any comments made in the consultation and had their eyes set on going ahead with the plan since the very beginning. Not surprising..... "TfL have told us informally that they intend to withdraw the 549. There’s been no discussion with us at all. Frankly communication with TFL is very poor currently. Well certainly with us!" "We were informally told about two months ago that as part of the consultation, the 549 was to be withdrawn and replaced by the extended W14. This is therefore the case. My disappointment is that sometime ago they pledged to improve consultation with their suppliers in order that they could take into account operators experiences etc. We found out about the consultation through posts on the internet. Since then and other than an informal comment made at a meeting referred to above, no formal discussion have yet taken place. Like I say TfLs engagement has been very poor. The good news is that Claire Mann is returning to TfL. She managed buses during the Covid crisis before moving to SWT. She was renown for seeking the views of all operators both large and small and empowering her managers to make decisions. Hopefully this is a turning point for TfL." The Londoner FB page or a Sullivans group?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2024 19:03:05 GMT
Quoting Dean Sullivan comments on the London Facebook group, seems like TfL didn't care about any comments made in the consultation and had their eyes set on going ahead with the plan since the very beginning. Not surprising..... "TfL have told us informally that they intend to withdraw the 549. There’s been no discussion with us at all. Frankly communication with TFL is very poor currently. Well certainly with us!" "We were informally told about two months ago that as part of the consultation, the 549 was to be withdrawn and replaced by the extended W14. This is therefore the case. My disappointment is that sometime ago they pledged to improve consultation with their suppliers in order that they could take into account operators experiences etc. We found out about the consultation through posts on the internet. Since then and other than an informal comment made at a meeting referred to above, no formal discussion have yet taken place. Like I say TfLs engagement has been very poor. The good news is that Claire Mann is returning to TfL. She managed buses during the Covid crisis before moving to SWT. She was renown for seeking the views of all operators both large and small and empowering her managers to make decisions. Hopefully this is a turning point for TfL." The Londoner FB page or a Sullivans group? The London FB Page, check TB123s post regarding tender results and go into the comments.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jan 16, 2024 19:24:21 GMT
Update 16 January 2024 Today we have published the results of this consultation. We received 863 responses to the consultation and would like to thank everyone that took part. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and other stakeholders, we have decided to implement the original proposals as follows: Route W12 – will be restructured to operate between Coppermill Lane and Woodford Bridge via Church Hill Road as proposed Route W13 – will be extended to Leyton, Asda as proposed Route W14 – will be restructured to operate between Loughton Station and Whipps Cross Interchange as proposed Route 549 – will be withdrawn and replaced with the extended route W14 as proposed It is expected that the restructuring of routes W12, W13 and W14 and withdrawal of route 549 will take place in September 2024. Details of the feedback we received, our response to the issues raised, and more information about next steps can be found in the consultation report. haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/25100/widgets/70986/documents/53532Bit silly that Waltham Forest said that continuing to run the W12 through Walthamstow Village would run contrary to their LTN... There are examples of buses running through LTNs using bus gates more frequently than every 20 minutes and it works out just fine for cyclists, pedestrians and everyone else on the road!
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jan 16, 2024 19:28:13 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. I agree that some of these proposals don't make sense but I think it started with W12 requiring a frequency increase then LBWF not budging and things got out of hand. Also not easy to get short electrics. If TfL don't amend based on these responses then you are unlikely to amend anything. This one was genuinely not a consultation based on the LBWF stance. The required infrastructure changes is in Coppermill Lane to accommodate the new longer electrics. Things to note on report: - The forum gets a mention. Does that usually happen? - '358 coming soon.' But that has been the case for a while. Looks like we're considered a "local media outlet" alongside Diamond Geezer and Roger French
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