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Post by WH241 on Jan 16, 2024 20:18:22 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. I usually give TfL the benefit of doubt and hope they use data available to them but think this consultation was even worse than the all routes go to East Ham Elizabeth Line consultation that was imposed on Newham!
I can see little benefit and probably minimal savings being created from the revised routes. It will be interesting to see how the changes are communicated closer to the time. I hope it will be more than the usual bus stop notice directing people to a web link.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 16, 2024 20:48:25 GMT
Update 16 January 2024 Today we have published the results of this consultation. We received 863 responses to the consultation and would like to thank everyone that took part. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and other stakeholders, we have decided to implement the original proposals as follows: Route W12 – will be restructured to operate between Coppermill Lane and Woodford Bridge via Church Hill Road as proposed Route W13 – will be extended to Leyton, Asda as proposed Route W14 – will be restructured to operate between Loughton Station and Whipps Cross Interchange as proposed Route 549 – will be withdrawn and replaced with the extended route W14 as proposed It is expected that the restructuring of routes W12, W13 and W14 and withdrawal of route 549 will take place in September 2024. Details of the feedback we received, our response to the issues raised, and more information about next steps can be found in the consultation report. haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/25100/widgets/70986/documents/53532Bit silly that Waltham Forest said that continuing to run the W12 through Walthamstow Village would run contrary to their LTN... There are examples of buses running through LTNs using bus gates more frequently than every 20 minutes and it works out just fine for cyclists, pedestrians and everyone else on the road! They’re straight up lying which suggests to me they are like Croydon and couldn’t give a fudge about buses and the people that use them. Now I wouldn’t agree with you it’s works out fine because LTN’s really are a poor attempt at changing things for the better but your correct regarding bus routes running through LTN’s at higher frequencies - in Lambeth, the 201 & 322 do precisely that with the 322 running through two separate LTN’s on the same road
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Post by vjaska on Jan 16, 2024 20:51:09 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. The vast majority of these consultations in the last few years are simply only there for financial savings - TfL gave up ages trying to be a transport provider when all they are now is a bean counter and a financiers wet dream
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Post by vjaska on Jan 16, 2024 20:56:05 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. I agree that some of these proposals don't make sense but I think it started with W12 requiring a frequency increase then LBWF not budging and things got out of hand. Also not easy to get short electrics. If TfL don't amend based on these responses then you are unlikely to amend anything. This one was genuinely not a consultation based on the LBWF stance. The required infrastructure changes is in Coppermill Lane to accommodate the new longer electrics. Things to note on report: - The forum gets a mention. Does that usually happen? - '358 coming soon.' But that has been the case for a while. The Metrocity has been available as a short option for roughly a year and the short Enviro 200 I believe is due next year so it’s not that difficult to get short electrics and in any case, finding short diesels to temporarily cover isn’t difficult either
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Post by busman on Jan 16, 2024 22:30:16 GMT
Update 16 January 2024 Today we have published the results of this consultation. We received 863 responses to the consultation and would like to thank everyone that took part. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and other stakeholders, we have decided to implement the original proposals as follows: Route W12 – will be restructured to operate between Coppermill Lane and Woodford Bridge via Church Hill Road as proposed Route W13 – will be extended to Leyton, Asda as proposed Route W14 – will be restructured to operate between Loughton Station and Whipps Cross Interchange as proposed Route 549 – will be withdrawn and replaced with the extended route W14 as proposed It is expected that the restructuring of routes W12, W13 and W14 and withdrawal of route 549 will take place in September 2024. Details of the feedback we received, our response to the issues raised, and more information about next steps can be found in the consultation report. haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/25100/widgets/70986/documents/53532Well what do you know, bus services reduced in parts of outer London and in contrast to the improvements in Superloop and 346/347 consultation, these changes are not due to happen until after the mayoral election. Very cynical.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 16, 2024 22:35:18 GMT
Quoting Dean Sullivan comments on The Londoner Facebook group, seems like TfL didn't care about any comments made in the consultation and had their eyes set on going ahead with the plan since the very beginning. Not surprising..... "TfL have told us informally that they intend to withdraw the 549. There’s been no discussion with us at all. Frankly communication with TFL is very poor currently. Well certainly with us!" "We were informally told about two months ago that as part of the consultation, the 549 was to be withdrawn and replaced by the extended W14. This is therefore the case. My disappointment is that sometime ago they pledged to improve consultation with their suppliers in order that they could take into account operators experiences etc. We found out about the consultation through posts on the internet. Since then and other than an informal comment made at a meeting referred to above, no formal discussion have yet taken place. Like I say TfLs engagement has been very poor. The good news is that Claire Mann is returning to TfL. She managed buses during the Covid crisis before moving to SWT. She was renown for seeking the views of all operators both large and small and empowering her managers to make decisions. Hopefully this is a turning point for TfL." TfL are practically Khan itself, so its his way or no way. The whole problem with the original W12 is down to TfL ignorance to reduce the service from 20 minutes to 30 minutes and Waltham Forest councils anti bus and anti car stance from the imbecile Clyde Loakes.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 16, 2024 22:36:44 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. Does not surprise me, Waltham Forest council is ruled by the dictator Clyde Loakes.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 16, 2024 22:38:58 GMT
Update 16 January 2024 Today we have published the results of this consultation. We received 863 responses to the consultation and would like to thank everyone that took part. Following careful consideration of the feedback we received from members of the public and other stakeholders, we have decided to implement the original proposals as follows: Route W12 – will be restructured to operate between Coppermill Lane and Woodford Bridge via Church Hill Road as proposed Route W13 – will be extended to Leyton, Asda as proposed Route W14 – will be restructured to operate between Loughton Station and Whipps Cross Interchange as proposed Route 549 – will be withdrawn and replaced with the extended route W14 as proposed It is expected that the restructuring of routes W12, W13 and W14 and withdrawal of route 549 will take place in September 2024. Details of the feedback we received, our response to the issues raised, and more information about next steps can be found in the consultation report. haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/25100/widgets/70986/documents/53532Bit silly that Waltham Forest said that continuing to run the W12 through Walthamstow Village would run contrary to their LTN... There are examples of buses running through LTNs using bus gates more frequently than every 20 minutes and it works out just fine for cyclists, pedestrians and everyone else on the road! That is what you get from a far left council hell bent on creating a pathetic U-topia for hipster champagne socialists that have infiltrated Walthamstow Village.
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Post by YX10FFN on Jan 16, 2024 22:49:08 GMT
Bit silly that Waltham Forest said that continuing to run the W12 through Walthamstow Village would run contrary to their LTN... There are examples of buses running through LTNs using bus gates more frequently than every 20 minutes and it works out just fine for cyclists, pedestrians and everyone else on the road! That is what you get from a far left council hell bent on creating a pathetic U-topia for hipster champagne socialists that have infiltrated Walthamstow Village. Yes it appears the people who the W12 was intended to serve in Walthamstow Village when introduced in the 80s are long gone, priced out of the area as with so many examples in the capital. Assume bikes with flower boxes powered by tofu is the preferred method of transport.
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 16, 2024 23:19:06 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. I usually give TfL the benefit of doubt and hope they use data available to them but think this consultation was even worse than the all routes go to East Ham Elizabeth Line consultation that was imposed on Newham!
I can see little benefit and probably minimal savings being created from the revised routes. It will be interesting to see how the changes are communicated closer to the time. I hope it will be more than the usual bus stop notice directing people to a web link.
Not only little benefit, mass confusion as well. South of Leytonstone is fine; Whipps Cross, Wanstead and South Woodford residents will definitely take time to get used to the restructured routes. It may all be too much for the eldery/less mobile passengers which these areas are known for, leading to the self fulfilling prophecy of some of these pathetic frequencies. There is little benefit to these changes bar the W14 going to Whipps Cross Hospital, and even then I'd love to see the stand space for it as the bus interchange is of very poor design.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 16, 2024 23:34:06 GMT
In the consultation response they put
The proposals to increase the
frequency of buses have been
designed to encourage more
people to travel to their
destinations by bus rather than
private car, which may in turn
reduce congestion, noise and air
pollution
A very laughable comment when you are REDUCING a mediocre 30 mins service down to a 1 HOUR service and cutting it back to Whipps Cross! Who in their right mind would want to wait 1 hour for a bus which could break down and result in a 2 hour wait. For an elderly person to get back to Snaresbrook Rd/Hermitage Court area that cannot walk, it is a no brainer now to use a car or taxi because the proposed W12 replacement of W14 has cut them off from Walhamstow market. Going to a place like that is now out of bounds especially on the return as it would mean waiting for 1 hour at Whipps Cross in the freezing cold for an interchange bus.
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Post by mondraker275 on Jan 17, 2024 8:53:48 GMT
I agree that some of these proposals don't make sense but I think it started with W12 requiring a frequency increase then LBWF not budging and things got out of hand. Also not easy to get short electrics. If TfL don't amend based on these responses then you are unlikely to amend anything. This one was genuinely not a consultation based on the LBWF stance. The required infrastructure changes is in Coppermill Lane to accommodate the new longer electrics. Things to note on report: - The forum gets a mention. Does that usually happen? - '358 coming soon.' But that has been the case for a while. The Metrocity has been available as a short option for roughly a year and the short Enviro 200 I believe is due next year so it’s not that difficult to get short electrics and in any case, finding short diesels to temporarily cover isn’t difficult either Are we talking current W12 short? Not many routes demand such buses in the UK so they will generally be more expensive. TfL wanted longer buses on W12 to get better value but that needed LBWF to amend roads in Village. LBWF said no that and frequency increase and when we say LBWF, it is usually one person as Capitalominbus mentions.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 17, 2024 14:26:50 GMT
The Metrocity has been available as a short option for roughly a year and the short Enviro 200 I believe is due next year so it’s not that difficult to get short electrics and in any case, finding short diesels to temporarily cover isn’t difficult either Are we talking current W12 short? Not many routes demand such buses in the UK so they will generally be more expensive. TfL wanted longer buses on W12 to get better value but that needed LBWF to amend roads in Village. LBWF said no that and frequency increase and when we say LBWF, it is usually one person as Capitalominbus mentions. Yes but in any respect, the W12 is being removed from one of the more limiting sections, that being Walthamstow Village, and LBWF are planned to be making adjustments along the route as per the consultation report which references a route test done in 2022 so a 8.7m Metrocity or whatever the length of the new short length Enviro 100EV should be ok.
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Post by joefrombow on Jan 17, 2024 14:59:08 GMT
Looking at the consultation report and the results. I'm generally disappointed not a single amendment was made to at least improve the current proposals. Quite shocking TfL is well hellbent on justifying having current Nightingale Lane services reduced to every hour from what was once every 20 minutes at its peak. To this day, I still struggle to understand the rationale of these proposals. Whilst there are some merits on Wanstead linking Whipps Cross and Coppermill Lane having services doubled, others seem nothing but crayon drawings breaking established services and links. It's almost like I could say the planner behind this was just trying to 'prove his position'. I agree that some of these proposals don't make sense but I think it started with W12 requiring a frequency increase then LBWF not budging and things got out of hand. Also not easy to get short electrics. If TfL don't amend based on these responses then you are unlikely to amend anything. This one was genuinely not a consultation based on the LBWF stance. The required infrastructure changes is in Coppermill Lane to accommodate the new longer electrics. Things to note on report: - The forum gets a mention. Does that usually happen? - '358 coming soon.' But that has been the case for a while. This shows that they do notice what we are saying on here and are watching 👀 (Central London planned changes I'm sure some ideas came from here that they kept) they just don't listen overall .
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Post by southlondon413 on Jan 17, 2024 15:08:36 GMT
I agree that some of these proposals don't make sense but I think it started with W12 requiring a frequency increase then LBWF not budging and things got out of hand. Also not easy to get short electrics. If TfL don't amend based on these responses then you are unlikely to amend anything. This one was genuinely not a consultation based on the LBWF stance. The required infrastructure changes is in Coppermill Lane to accommodate the new longer electrics. Things to note on report: - The forum gets a mention. Does that usually happen? - '358 coming soon.' But that has been the case for a while. This shows that they do notice what we are saying on here and are watching 👀 (Central London planned changes I'm sure some ideas came from here that they kept) they just don't listen overall . Those people should get a consultancy fee.
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