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Post by joefrombow on Jul 20, 2023 14:57:01 GMT
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed. regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding. And the fact you were coming to work everyday where you could possibly get a deadly virus that no one knew about at the time a lot of people were scared , but train/tube drivers and staff sit on there arrs all day doing nothing so clearly they are not needed so next week won't be a problem 😂 , No point arguing over and over again over the same point I get it people don't like strikers because it affects their lives I get it but that's the whole point in withdrawing labour to show how important your labour is , All this vitriol towards strikers should be shown to the government/mayor and rail companies CEOS you have to be willfully ignorant in my view to blame the staff and ignore the points that have been raised many a time as to why these strikes are happening yet people just bang on about pay 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by WH241 on Jul 20, 2023 15:07:59 GMT
regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding. I think there's two points here, the train drivers were very much working. But the saying that they were heroes or anything is just total nonsense. i know there were many who worked in the hight of the pandemic but the unsung heroes for me were bus drivers who initially were exposed to the virus even with the front door closed off for boarding. The DLR staff also never had much protection apart from the flimsy sheet covering the front section of the carriage.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 20, 2023 15:14:29 GMT
regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding. And the fact you were coming to work everyday where you could possibly get a deadly virus that no one knew about at the time a lot of people were scared , but train/tube drivers and staff sit on there arrs all day doing nothing so clearly they are not needed so next week won't be a problem 😂 , No point arguing over and over again over the same point I get it people don't like strikers because it affects their lives I get it but that's the whole point in withdrawing labour to show how important your labour is , All this vitriol towards strikers should be shown to the government/mayor and rail companies CEOS you have to be willfully ignorant in my view to blame the staff and ignore the points that have been raised many a time as to why these strikes are happening yet people just bang on about pay 🤷🏻♂️ It's a bit like the just stop oil protests, if you don't inconvenience the general public you're not going to get anywhere. However there appears to be no such vitriol directed towards striking NHS staff, who really were working flat out through the pandemic and putting themselves at great risk. It's easy to blame the government for everything but what if there is a change of government at the next election and the same problems continue, who do you blame then?
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jul 20, 2023 15:19:18 GMT
You seem to forget how catching Covid or Covid like symptoms was a Russian roulette with staff rostas, so for some it was tireless work covering the gaps for those self isolating at the drop of a hat. I struggle to understand how the workforce gets slated for wanting small increases in their pay. In 2020/21, train company managers were paid bonuses to the tune of almost 1 billion quid, yet still the reliability on the railway was as bad as it's ever been and there wasn't enough passenger revenue coming in to justify those dividends. But for Joe & Jenny Public to ask for a slight increase to maintain a decent standard of living, like not having to work overtime because you're reliant on that money; that request is the biggest crime in the world?! Are you saying that 60K and free travel, with an eventual total package price around 95K isn't enough for a decent standard of living? regardless of how much an individual earns, they live within their means. For example, you would buy a house and have a mortgage based on what is affordable on the wage you earn. This would, of course, mean that a person earning more money may have a more expensive mortgage than a person who earns less, but would make up a similar percent of their income etc. There seems to be a bit of a misconception that train drivers earn *insert Daily Mail figure here* and they spend their days off like Scrooge McDuck diving into a swimming pool full of coins (n.b please don't try this at home,) or live in a house, very big house in the country. Railway staff etc, have bills to pay, need to put food on the table and make ends meet. Just because a person earns *re-insert Daily Mail figure here* doesn't mean they have any more disposable income than somebody who earns less money. If the interest rate pushes a mortgage up by a few hundred pounds, inflation pushes my food bills up, fuel costs increase etc then a pay increase should go some way to accommodate that. My petrol, mortgage, bills etc don't go up simply because someone works in a specific job. I know this affects a huge number of people, but maybe more unions need to make a stand. Do I agree with all grades expecting massive pay increases? Not necessarily, however,T&Cs and things like pensions could well be worth fighting for Anyway, this is my last comment on this. There are a lot of "misconceptions" about people who work on the railways on this thread and many of those with those misconceptions aren't really willing to take note of other things that have been said by those who work in the industry.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 20, 2023 15:27:02 GMT
I think there's two points here, the train drivers were very much working. But the saying that they were heroes or anything is just total nonsense. i know there were many who worked in the hight of the pandemic but the unsung heroes for me were bus drivers who initially were exposed to the virus even with the front door closed off for boarding. The DLR staff also never had much protection apart from the flimsy sheet covering the front section of the carriage. Personally I think that the NHS staff put their lives at risk more than anyone else. There was a much higher transmission of the virus in hospitals than on public transport. There were of course bus drivers who died and in the beginning anyway there wasn't enough protection. No sector in the UK was prepared for this but we can blame our poorly run government who had no clue and couldn't be bothered either.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 20, 2023 15:32:15 GMT
regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding. And the fact you were coming to work everyday where you could possibly get a deadly virus that no one knew about at the time a lot of people were scared , but train/tube drivers and staff sit on there arrs all day doing nothing so clearly they are not needed so next week won't be a problem 😂 , No point arguing over and over again over the same point I get it people don't like strikers because it affects their lives I get it but that's the whole point in withdrawing labour to show how important your labour is , All this vitriol towards strikers should be shown to the government/mayor and rail companies CEOS you have to be willfully ignorant in my view to blame the staff and ignore the points that have been raised many a time as to why these strikes are happening yet people just bang on about pay 🤷🏻♂️ What this thread shows me is the government is winning the "lets pit worker against worker war" when it's the government themselves who should be the common enemy for everyone. Politicians of all persuasions have a cheek to tell people to just accept it and go back to work given they sit in nice, cushy jobs all the while misusing expenses benefits and voting in lovely pay rises that aren't really deserved given politicians popularity and usefulness ratings among the public are low or probably even worse.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 20, 2023 16:57:26 GMT
Regardless it is an inconvenience for the general public so I do not support the strikes and never will. An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
I would not even bother looking at the video, just saying Mick Lynch I already know it would be a biased one sided way. There is not that much support for train drivers unfortunately mainly LUL, I have heard a lot of cussing with certain expletives about them when strike days. I could not put some of the stuff I have seen here about them and this is from many working class people in pubs, bus industry, health industry etc.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 20, 2023 17:02:56 GMT
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed. You seem to forget how catching Covid or Covid like symptoms was a Russian roulette with staff rostas, so for some it was tireless work covering the gaps for those self isolating at the drop of a hat. I struggle to understand how the workforce gets slated for wanting small increases in their pay. In 2020/21, train company managers were paid bonuses to the tune of almost 1 billion quid, yet still the reliability on the railway was as bad as it's ever been and there wasn't enough passenger revenue coming in to justify those dividends. But for Joe & Jenny Public to ask for a slight increase to maintain a decent standard of living, like not having to work overtime because you're reliant on that money; that request is the biggest crime in the world?! Was that LUL company managers getting bonuses? Even still, if they did that was wrong, they should be getting their wages docked for the poor performance and made to come out to stations apologising to passengers.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 20, 2023 17:05:08 GMT
regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding. And the fact you were coming to work everyday where you could possibly get a deadly virus that no one knew about at the time a lot of people were scared , but train/tube drivers and staff sit on there arrs all day doing nothing so clearly they are not needed so next week won't be a problem 😂 , No point arguing over and over again over the same point I get it people don't like strikers because it affects their lives I get it but that's the whole point in withdrawing labour to show how important your labour is , All this vitriol towards strikers should be shown to the government/mayor and rail companies CEOS you have to be willfully ignorant in my view to blame the staff and ignore the points that have been raised many a time as to why these strikes are happening yet people just bang on about pay 🤷🏻♂️ So you want us to show vitriol to the Mayor & government for your own agenda which none of us would benefit in; because in effect you are holding the public to ransom; good luck with that!!!
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Post by mkay315 on Jul 20, 2023 17:07:22 GMT
And the fact you were coming to work everyday where you could possibly get a deadly virus that no one knew about at the time a lot of people were scared , but train/tube drivers and staff sit on there arrs all day doing nothing so clearly they are not needed so next week won't be a problem 😂 , No point arguing over and over again over the same point I get it people don't like strikers because it affects their lives I get it but that's the whole point in withdrawing labour to show how important your labour is , All this vitriol towards strikers should be shown to the government/mayor and rail companies CEOS you have to be willfully ignorant in my view to blame the staff and ignore the points that have been raised many a time as to why these strikes are happening yet people just bang on about pay 🤷🏻♂️ What this thread shows me is the government is winning the "lets pit worker against worker war" when it's the government themselves who should be the common enemy for everyone. Politicians of all persuasions have a cheek to tell people to just accept it and go back to work given they sit in nice, cushy jobs all the while misusing expenses benefits and voting in lovely pay rises that aren't really deserved given politicians popularity and usefulness ratings among the public are low or probably even worse. I've been saying this for the longest time in some of my threads. The same happened when COVID 19 first occurred. The government must be pxssing themselves at the moment seeing all of this.
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 20, 2023 17:13:33 GMT
You seem to forget how catching Covid or Covid like symptoms was a Russian roulette with staff rostas, so for some it was tireless work covering the gaps for those self isolating at the drop of a hat. I struggle to understand how the workforce gets slated for wanting small increases in their pay. In 2020/21, train company managers were paid bonuses to the tune of almost 1 billion quid, yet still the reliability on the railway was as bad as it's ever been and there wasn't enough passenger revenue coming in to justify those dividends. But for Joe & Jenny Public to ask for a slight increase to maintain a decent standard of living, like not having to work overtime because you're reliant on that money; that request is the biggest crime in the world?! Are you saying that 60K and free travel, with an eventual total package price around 95K isn't enough for a decent standard of living? Are you saying the head of National Rail with an annual take-home pay of £563,000 deserved his bonus? When minimum punctuality targets were missed despite less trains on the network during Covid? If you're fine rewarding an individual who has precided over lack of infrastructure investment on the railways and tried to do away with safe levels of staffing, then clearly we have differing views.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 20, 2023 17:16:35 GMT
Are you saying that 60K and free travel, with an eventual total package price around 95K isn't enough for a decent standard of living? Are you saying the head of National Rail with an annual take-home pay of £563,000 deserved his bonus? When minimum punctuality targets were missed despite less trains on the network during Covid? If you're fine rewarding an individual who has precided over lack of infrastructure investment on the railways and tried to do away with safe levels of staffing, then clearly we have differing views. Oh no I'm not advocating him getting it either, would rather everyone just deal with it like people in other industries.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 20, 2023 17:37:02 GMT
Are you saying that 60K and free travel, with an eventual total package price around 95K isn't enough for a decent standard of living? Are you saying the head of National Rail with an annual take-home pay of £563,000 deserved his bonus? When minimum punctuality targets were missed despite less trains on the network during Covid? If you're fine rewarding an individual who has precided over lack of infrastructure investment on the railways and tried to do away with safe levels of staffing, then clearly we have differing views. This is just whataboutery...........lack of investment and unsafe levels of staffing? I can't say that I've noticed.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 20, 2023 19:06:13 GMT
What were the strikes on 1, 3 March, 6, 21 June, 19 August and 10 November about then? RMT all grades strikes, not ASLEF drivers as you implied.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 20, 2023 19:18:34 GMT
Are you saying that 60K and free travel, with an eventual total package price around 95K isn't enough for a decent standard of living? Are you saying the head of National Rail with an annual take-home pay of £563,000 deserved his bonus? When minimum punctuality targets were missed despite less trains on the network during Covid? If you're fine rewarding an individual who has precided over lack of infrastructure investment on the railways and tried to do away with safe levels of staffing, then clearly we have differing views. So then why are you and the unions NOT making a point of this. But I guess they would not, because the unions are probably the ones that helped him to get that kind of salary in the first place. They should be made to be put in stocks at Kings Cross railway station and answer to the public about all these delays.
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