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Post by greenboy on Jul 20, 2023 9:57:21 GMT
I disagree. If they have achieved nothing I see no reason for them to strike again. As for 'let them strike for as long as they want' will really go down well with the public! If you did that people would struggle to get to work and ridership on the tube would decline as people wouldn't trust tfl as much as they did previously Do you not understand the purpose of strike action? Of course if they haven’t achieved the result that their members are wanting, then they will continue to strike. Personally I would look beyond the Daily Mail articles and would actually watch videos of Eddie Dempsey and Mick Lynch speaking about strike action. I think the point being made is that if a year of industrial action has achieved nothing then how much longer do they continue with a course of action that clearly isn't getting anywhere? I don't know anything about Daily Mail articles as I don't read the paper (presumably you do?) but as for listening to The Grinch & Co I really would find this less nauseating.... 🤣 🤣 youtu.be/POv-3yIPSWc
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 20, 2023 10:28:27 GMT
Do you not understand the purpose of strike action? Of course if they haven’t achieved the result that their members are wanting, then they will continue to strike. Personally I would look beyond the Daily Mail articles and would actually watch videos of Eddie Dempsey and Mick Lynch speaking about strike action. Regardless it is an inconvenience for the general public so I do not support the strikes and never will. An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 20, 2023 10:35:39 GMT
Regardless it is an inconvenience for the general public so I do not support the strikes and never will. An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
So you support hard working families having pay docked because they can not get to work. Solidarity with you brother!
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Post by greenboy on Jul 20, 2023 10:41:48 GMT
Regardless it is an inconvenience for the general public so I do not support the strikes and never will. An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 20, 2023 10:45:48 GMT
Regardless it is an inconvenience for the general public so I do not support the strikes and never will. An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
A lot of working classes are in solidarity with these guys? Really? The fact you're trying to quote Mick Lynch sums this up even better, it's just the other end of the spectrum compared to the Daily Mail. Also a bit confused as to how they worked tirelessly despite they were locked in cabs with barely anyone travelling.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 20, 2023 12:20:58 GMT
Regardless it is an inconvenience for the general public so I do not support the strikes and never will. An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
From the way you put it in your first sentence it appears that tube workers enjoy seeing people suffer. I don't think this is the case but more of a consequence of the strikes. Last time they went on strike a journey to central London which would have taken 1h15m took over 3h by bus which is unacceptable. Take away a form of public transport is a form of putting London in chaos. It will be harder for people to get around. The tube drivers know this and quite frankly are selfish as they seem to be doing it for their own good as opposed to providing a service for people which is what they should be doing.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 20, 2023 12:29:09 GMT
An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
From the way you put it in your first sentence it appears that tube workers enjoy seeing people suffer. I don't think this is the case but more of a consequence of the strikes. Last time they went on strike a journey to central London which would have taken 1h15m took over 3h by bus which is unacceptable. Take away a form of public transport is a form of putting London in chaos. It will be harder for people to get around. The tube drivers know this and quite frankly are selfish as they seem to be doing it for their own good as opposed to providing a service for people which is what they should be doing. Think you are still being a tad dramatic and using an extreme example for journey times! I am repeating my self here but there are alternative options now like the Elizabeth Line! The DLR still runs and buses sometimes have extras. Don’t forget also lots can work from home now. Also the school holidays have begun for most schools so this means less pressure on the network as some parents work term time only. Not sure how old you are but if you look back to the early 00s at the strikes then you really would know what disruption looks like! You are getting worked up over this and at the end of the day it’s a couple of days disruption.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 20, 2023 12:34:52 GMT
From the way you put it in your first sentence it appears that tube workers enjoy seeing people suffer. I don't think this is the case but more of a consequence of the strikes. Last time they went on strike a journey to central London which would have taken 1h15m took over 3h by bus which is unacceptable. Take away a form of public transport is a form of putting London in chaos. It will be harder for people to get around. The tube drivers know this and quite frankly are selfish as they seem to be doing it for their own good as opposed to providing a service for people which is what they should be doing. Think you are still being a tad dramatic and using an extreme example for journey times! I am repeating my self here but there are alternative options now like the Elizabeth Line! The DLR still runs and buses sometimes have extras. Don’t forget also lots can work from home now. Also the school holidays have begun for most schools so this means less pressure on the network as some parents work term time only. Not sure how old you are but if you look back to the early 00s at the strikes then you really would know what disruption looks like! You are getting worked up over this and at the end of the day it’s a couple of days disruption. The DLR and Elizabeth line are irrelevant if you do not live near it. I only have the option of the Elizabeth line other than the bus but even then I'd have to catch a bus from my nearest station to get home so it's just an extra cost. Lots can work from home but not everyone can. This is not the first time that the tube drivers went on strike this year. They went on strike for 6 days last year. You seem to be unaffected as in past posts you have stated that you drive to work however if lots of people do the same then traffic will build up.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 20, 2023 13:09:23 GMT
This is not the first time that the tube drivers went on strike this year. They went on strike for 6 days last year. There were NO LU ASLEF driver strikes in 2022 15 March 2023 was the previous one. July is about pensions and conditions of employment which are about to be imposed without Union agreement.
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 20, 2023 13:46:07 GMT
An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed. You seem to forget how catching Covid or Covid like symptoms was a Russian roulette with staff rostas, so for some it was tireless work covering the gaps for those self isolating at the drop of a hat. I struggle to understand how the workforce gets slated for wanting small increases in their pay. In 2020/21, train company managers were paid bonuses to the tune of almost 1 billion quid, yet still the reliability on the railway was as bad as it's ever been and there wasn't enough passenger revenue coming in to justify those dividends. But for Joe & Jenny Public to ask for a slight increase to maintain a decent standard of living, like not having to work overtime because you're reliant on that money; that request is the biggest crime in the world?!
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 20, 2023 13:51:56 GMT
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed. You seem to forget how catching Covid or Covid like symptoms was a Russian roulette with staff rostas, so for some it was tireless work covering the gaps for those self isolating at the drop of a hat. I struggle to understand how the workforce gets slated for wanting small increases in their pay. In 2020/21, train company managers were paid bonuses to the tune of almost 1 billion quid, yet still the reliability on the railway was as bad as it's ever been and there wasn't enough passenger revenue coming in to justify those dividends. But for Joe & Jenny Public to ask for a slight increase to maintain a decent standard of living, like not having to work overtime because you're reliant on that money; that request is the biggest crime in the world?! Are you saying that 60K and free travel, with an eventual total package price around 95K isn't enough for a decent standard of living?
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jul 20, 2023 14:06:55 GMT
An inconvenience to the general public is exactly what strikes are meant to be.
As for the other posters point regarding the strike action going nowhere for a year, each strike had different aims (not all were related to pay, some were related to job security and threatened losses) and those striking have my respect. A lot of people will try and compare wages with other professions (the favorite seems to be nurses) yet from what I can tell, lots of working class workers are in solidarity with train drivers because the argument shouldn't be that drivers wages should be dropped to what some might consider more appropriate levels, the idea is that workers should be paid far more reasonable wages than what they are currently on now to match inflation and the fact that some job roles haven't seen pay rises in years. Train drivers are standing up for this.
I do strongly suggest you check out Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey's takes on the strikes because Lynch discusses how during the pandemic operators paid themselves with a very large sum of money from the government subsidies (which lead to them being bailed out) and yet absolutely nothing went to the railway staff who tirelessly worked through the pandemic.
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed. regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 20, 2023 14:21:08 GMT
This is not the first time that the tube drivers went on strike this year. They went on strike for 6 days last year. There were NO LU ASLEF driver strikes in 2022 15 March 2023 was the previous one. July is about pensions and conditions of employment which are about to be imposed without Union agreement. What were the strikes on 1, 3 March, 6, 21 June, 19 August and 10 November about then? My company was paying me an extra hour and in some cases two hours of wages on some of those days due to the strikes.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 20, 2023 14:27:04 GMT
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed. regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding. I think there's two points here, the train drivers were very much working. But the saying that they were heroes or anything is just total nonsense.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 20, 2023 14:31:36 GMT
Err hang on a minute........worked tirelessly through the pandemic? Reality is that they spent much of the day doing nothing because, with so few people travelling there was very little to do whilst on full pay because of the government bail out, no rail staff were furloughed. regardless of how many people are on my train, I'm still working, taking a train from one end of the route to the other, then back again. The only thing that did change during the pandemic was the number of different schedules that were operated on request of TfL etc. The only operational rail staff that I know of who were furloughed were those who were shielding. Yes that's a fair point but for most staff the job was a lot easier with far fewer customers and that was my point about rail staff not being furloughed, they were paid their full wage out of the public purse because there was virtually no revenue coming in.
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