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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 16:29:54 GMT
The 456s are going to South West Trains as part of the 10-car scheme on the Windsor lines suburban (Hounslow loop etc) I also think some of the 319s were supposed to be heading to NW England for the newly electrified lines there. Starts to suggest Bombardier has got the Thameslink fleet by the back door as the 1200 vehicle contract with Siemens was never signed and the Thameslink fleet was supposed to enter service between 2014-2016 (now looking more like 2016-2018, even if a contract eventually gets signed in early 2013) FCC said they were replacing "older stock" with the new trains from the contract. Guessing that means 313s, 317s and 319s. As for Southern the awful 456s, which are in a pretty bad state will finally be moving on, and if there's a large order for new stock coming in I'm assuming that'll mean the cascade of 377s to replace 313s and 455s. All of Southern's 319s are leased to FCC for the moment, as some 377s - assuming the latter will be displaced elsewhere and the 377s will join the other 377s when First get their new stock. I hope SWT do a very good refurbishment on those 456s as for the moment they're pretty tatty. Had several occasions where I've sat down and the seat bottom has completely fallen off, and some where the seat bottom appears to have been "borrowed". Aesthetically they're not looking great either, but then the refurbishment they did on them back when they did the 455s wasn't nearly as comprehensive, I think it was more just a general sort-out more than refurbishment!
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Post by mre81 on Nov 19, 2012 19:11:48 GMT
The 456's aren't that bad! They ride a bit smoother and faster than the 455's which do feel like they're coming to the end of their natural lives. However, Southern have done a good job looking after them- I dread to think what they'd be like if First had been in charge It makes sense for Bombardier to produce the new Thameslink trains. The new Southern contract seems to indicate a merge with some current FCC services. It would make a common fleet, rather than having Desiros and Electrostars. Should save a bit of money on maintenance and running costs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 19:27:00 GMT
The 456's aren't that bad! They ride a bit smoother and faster than the 455's which do feel like they're coming to the end of their natural lives. However, Southern have done a good job looking after them- I dread to think what they'd be like if First had been in charge The 455s are really near the end, though I personally prefer them. The noise they make is pretty bad though!
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Post by mre81 on Nov 19, 2012 19:39:51 GMT
The 456's aren't that bad! They ride a bit smoother and faster than the 455's which do feel like they're coming to the end of their natural lives. However, Southern have done a good job looking after them- I dread to think what they'd be like if First had been in charge The 455s are really near the end, though I personally prefer them. The noise they make is pretty bad though! Their seating arrangement is sh*te too, but I do have a soft spot for them They do struggle on fast London Bridge-Tattenham Corner services, bless them, especially when fully loaded. So much so that they are given an extra three minutes over the London Bridge-Norwood Junction section compared to the 377s
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 19:43:13 GMT
The 455s are really near the end, though I personally prefer them. The noise they make is pretty bad though! Both the 455's and 456's are quite bad IMO, it's always a relief when a 377 pulls into Norbury /Thornton Heath!
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Post by vjaska on Nov 19, 2012 19:46:28 GMT
I'm not a train buff and have no idea what train relates to what number. Anyone help me out with pics so I can voice my opinion ;D
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Post by snoggle on Nov 19, 2012 19:52:18 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 20:01:17 GMT
The 455s are really near the end, though I personally prefer them. The noise they make is pretty bad though! Their seating arrangement is sh*te too, but I do have a soft spot for them They do struggle on fast London Bridge-Tattenham Corner services, bless them, especially when fully loaded. So much so that they are given an extra three minutes over the London Bridge-Norwood Junction section compared to the 377s I use Honor Oak Park or Forest Hill in the mornings, so I see them going through at speed. Well, I say speed... Unfortunately on the Outer South London line you often get 455s stuck to 456s, which makes for one big bundle of awful.
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Post by mre81 on Nov 19, 2012 20:09:12 GMT
Their seating arrangement is sh*te too, but I do have a soft spot for them They do struggle on fast London Bridge-Tattenham Corner services, bless them, especially when fully loaded. So much so that they are given an extra three minutes over the London Bridge-Norwood Junction section compared to the 377s I use Honor Oak Park or Forest Hill in the mornings, so I see them going through at speed. Well, I say speed... Unfortunately on the Outer South London line you often get 455s stuck to 456s, which makes for one big bundle of awful. When you say "going through at speed" I assume you mean, 'making an awful lot of noise, but not actually moving very fast in any way shape or form' ;D I wonder when the last time one of them reached their (supposed) top speed of 75mph was?!?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 20:15:38 GMT
The 455s are really near the end, though I personally prefer them. The noise they make is pretty bad though! Both the 455's and 456's are quite bad IMO, it's always a relief when a 377 pulls into Norbury /Thornton Heath! If the Southern Franchise gets merged into that huge franchise that's supposedly being created, it could end up with a huge fleet of 377s running most of the lines (if Bombardier are going to build new trains for FCC as well as Southern) - the 319s/313s/317s/455s/456s across Southern and FCC will all end up eventually replaced which will mean a huge fleet of Electrostars operating on various lines. Imagine the 171s, 321s, 365s, 442s will stay on their duties. I'm going to be glad to see the back of all the old stock, esp. the 313s and 319s. They're getting a bit too old now. Had a 313 up to Hertfordshire once and it screeched so much coming into Finsbury Park I thought we were going to miss the station ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 20:16:28 GMT
I use Honor Oak Park or Forest Hill in the mornings, so I see them going through at speed. Well, I say speed... Unfortunately on the Outer South London line you often get 455s stuck to 456s, which makes for one big bundle of awful. When you say "going through at speed" I assume you mean, 'making an awful lot of noise, but not actually moving very fast in any way shape or form' ;D I wonder when the last time one of them reached their (supposed) top speed of 75mph was?!? They still seem to come through faster than the 171s, which usually rumble through fairly slowly making even more noise! As for reaching their top speed, the last time was probably some time around 1989 ;D
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Post by vjaska on Nov 19, 2012 20:45:32 GMT
Thanks 'snoggle', helped quite a lot. Wikipedia also seems to have pics of each class for Southern as well I like those 377's, really smooth and comfortable trains - think they are the only Southern trains despite me making 100's of journeys with Southern.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 20:47:51 GMT
They still seem to come through faster than the 171s, which usually rumble through fairly slowly making even more noise! I'd kill to get Class 171's stopping at my local stations. You can't normally compare DMU's with EMU's, but the 171's fly once they get going...you can't say the same about the 455's ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 20:57:15 GMT
Thanks 'snoggle', helped quite a lot. Wikipedia also seems to have pics of each class for Southern as well I like those 377's, really smooth and comfortable trains - think they are the only Southern trains despite me making 100's of journeys with Southern. Most of the 455s and 456s (the old tatty trains) end up on very lightly used lines. Even in the peaks, the London Bridge - Caterham/London Victoria via Sydenham are very lightly loaded. All the lines people want get nicer 377s!
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Post by mre81 on Nov 19, 2012 22:43:14 GMT
They still seem to come through faster than the 171s, which usually rumble through fairly slowly making even more noise! I'd kill to get Class 171's stopping at my local stations. You can't normally compare DMU's with EMU's, but the 171's fly once they get going...you can't say the same about the 455's ;D The 171's are brilliant Smooth and comfortable, with comfy seats and tonnes of legroom. Once they get going they fly as well! Nice and growly too, and personally I think they look nicer than the 377s.
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