Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 22:45:20 GMT
I'd kill to get Class 171's stopping at my local stations. You can't normally compare DMU's with EMU's, but the 171's fly once they get going...you can't say the same about the 455's ;D The 171's are brilliant Smooth and comfortable, with comfy seats and tonnes of legroom. Once they get going they fly as well! Nice and growly too, and personally I think they look nicer than the 377s. They look great. They're quite noisy when slow, but when they're great trains when they get up to speed. Always been a fan of DMUs.
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Nov 19, 2012 22:48:34 GMT
Thanks 'snoggle', helped quite a lot. Wikipedia also seems to have pics of each class for Southern as well I like those 377's, really smooth and comfortable trains - think they are the only Southern trains despite me making 100's of journeys with Southern. Most of the 455s and 456s (the old tatty trains) end up on very lightly used lines. Even in the peaks, the London Bridge - Caterham/London Victoria via Sydenham are very lightly loaded. All the lines people want get nicer 377s! Are you sure about those light loadings??? I use the London Bridge-Forest Hill-Norwood Junction route every day in the peaks, and the trains I use are always rammed. They even extended my morning train from 8 to 10 coaches, and those extra coaches pretty soon filled up, and are overflowing once again. Same story in the evenings with the London Bridge Caterham/Tattenham/Dorking/Horsham trains- there's always loads of standees on each departure- 377, 455, 456- regardless of class.... Although I agree, I'd always get a 377 (or 171!) given the choice
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2012 23:10:23 GMT
Are you sure about those light loadings??? I use the London Bridge-Forest Hill-Norwood Junction route every day in the peaks, and the trains I use are always rammed. They even extended my morning train from 8 to 10 coaches, and those extra coaches pretty soon filled up, and are overflowing once again. Same story in the evenings with the London Bridge Caterham/Tattenham/Dorking/Horsham trains- there's always loads of standees on each departure- 377, 455, 456- regardless of class.... Although I agree, I'd always get a 377 (or 171!) given the choice I always get off the Overground and onto a conventional train at New Cross every day because I get fed up with the extreme crowding on the Overground. Get on the Southern train and it's a picnic, occasionally I even have to sit next to someone
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 20, 2012 1:18:13 GMT
Thanks 'snoggle', helped quite a lot. Wikipedia also seems to have pics of each class for Southern as well I like those 377's, really smooth and comfortable trains - think they are the only Southern trains despite me making 100's of journeys with Southern. Most of the 455s and 456s (the old tatty trains) end up on very lightly used lines. Even in the peaks, the London Bridge - Caterham/London Victoria via Sydenham are very lightly loaded. All the lines people want get nicer 377s! Come to think of it, I've used the 455's & 456's between London Bridge & Streatham before - my memory can sometimes be awful
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 7:46:33 GMT
Most of the 455s and 456s (the old tatty trains) end up on very lightly used lines. Even in the peaks, the London Bridge - Caterham/London Victoria via Sydenham are very lightly loaded. All the lines people want get nicer 377s! Come to think of it, I've used the 455's & 456's between London Bridge & Streatham before - my memory can sometimes be awful Yeah all those crush loaded journeiss going to and from work must have been dreams ... they even get rammed on Sundays! Sorry but the poster of this has lost all credit in my eyes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 8:29:36 GMT
Come to think of it, I've used the 455's & 456's between London Bridge & Streatham before - my memory can sometimes be awful Yeah all those crush loaded journeiss going to and from work must have been dreams ... they even get rammed on Sundays! Sorry but the poster of this has lost all credit in my eyes. I was speaking from experience, myself. I've been on some massively loaded 377s from Oxted to East Croydon in the peaks - I don't think I've ever been on a packed 455, from my many journeys.
|
|
|
Post by daveb0789 on Nov 20, 2012 9:35:21 GMT
I didn't know they have the 455/456s extra time to run non stop between London Bridge and Norwood Junction.
I think the 456s have the same power to weight ratio as a 455. A two car 456 has 500 hp and a 4 car 455 has 1000 hp. Compare that with a class 377 which as a 4 car has 2000 hp. The class 378 has been more than that.
The main line from London Bridge climbs at 1 in 100 from New Cross Gate to Forest Hill - known as the Forest Hill bank. It's this gradient which really holds back the 455/456s especially when loaded. The line speed on the slow lines is 60 mph. The fasts are 70 mph.
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Nov 20, 2012 18:39:58 GMT
Are you sure about those light loadings??? I use the London Bridge-Forest Hill-Norwood Junction route every day in the peaks, and the trains I use are always rammed. They even extended my morning train from 8 to 10 coaches, and those extra coaches pretty soon filled up, and are overflowing once again. Same story in the evenings with the London Bridge Caterham/Tattenham/Dorking/Horsham trains- there's always loads of standees on each departure- 377, 455, 456- regardless of class.... Although I agree, I'd always get a 377 (or 171!) given the choice I always get off the Overground and onto a conventional train at New Cross every day because I get fed up with the extreme crowding on the Overground. Get on the Southern train and it's a picnic, occasionally I even have to sit next to someone Okay, I'll give you that ;D the Overground really is sardines compared to Southern. I remember having to wait for about 4 trains to go by at Canada Water before I could actually squeeze onto one!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 18:54:53 GMT
Okay, I'll give you that ;D the Overground really is sardines compared to Southern. I remember having to wait for about 4 trains to go by at Canada Water before I could actually squeeze onto one! I see trains with a few people standing up on them coming past me at Forest Hill, and people moan about crush loading! Bah. The Overground is essentially the Underground with Electrostars.
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Nov 20, 2012 22:01:16 GMT
I didn't know they have the 455/456s extra time to run non stop between London Bridge and Norwood Junction. I think the 456s have the same power to weight ratio as a 455. A two car 456 has 500 hp and a 4 car 455 has 1000 hp. Compare that with a class 377 which as a 4 car has 2000 hp. The class 378 has been more than that. The main line from London Bridge climbs at 1 in 100 from New Cross Gate to Forest Hill - known as the Forest Hill bank. It's this gradient which really holds back the 455/456s especially when loaded. The line speed on the slow lines is 60 mph. The fasts are 70 mph. The workings scheduled with 455/456's are timetabled about 14 minutes to get to Norwood Junction from London Bridge. The same workings with 377's are scheduled to take about 11 mins. I always thought the line from Forest Hill to New Cross Gate was steep- southbounds trains (particularly 455/456's) always seem to get faster as they approach Sydenham. If you stand on the platforms at NXG and look south, you can really see a very pronounced climb, so not surprised they struggle!
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Nov 20, 2012 22:04:05 GMT
Okay, I'll give you that ;D the Overground really is sardines compared to Southern. I remember having to wait for about 4 trains to go by at Canada Water before I could actually squeeze onto one! I see trains with a few people standing up on them coming past me at Forest Hill, and people moan about crush loading! Bah. The Overground is essentially the Underground with Electrostars. The trouble with the Overground is that the 378's are only 4 cars long. In the peaks, Southern services are generally never less than 8. Have to say I've given up with the Overground at rush hour- I like to sit down! The 07.58 northbound departure from Norwood J never has any seats left, and it's only come one stop
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 22:07:27 GMT
I didn't know they have the 455/456s extra time to run non stop between London Bridge and Norwood Junction. I think the 456s have the same power to weight ratio as a 455. A two car 456 has 500 hp and a 4 car 455 has 1000 hp. Compare that with a class 377 which as a 4 car has 2000 hp. The class 378 has been more than that. The main line from London Bridge climbs at 1 in 100 from New Cross Gate to Forest Hill - known as the Forest Hill bank. It's this gradient which really holds back the 455/456s especially when loaded. The line speed on the slow lines is 60 mph. The fasts are 70 mph. The workings scheduled with 455/456's are timetabled about 14 minutes to get to Norwood Junction from London Bridge. The same workings with 377's are scheduled to take about 11 mins. I always thought the line from Forest Hill to New Cross Gate was steep- southbounds trains (particularly 455/456's) always seem to get faster as they approach Sydenham. If you stand on the platforms at NXG and look south, you can really see a very pronounced climb, so not surprised they struggle! I was doing a topographic study of the South London area with some GIS, to do with flooding if the sea level and the River Thames rose. The whole Forest Hill/Brockley/New Cross area is greatly raised from the surrounding area by several metres in elevation - even when sea levels rose to the maximum level the model would allow they weren't hitting Brockley and Forest Hill. It's noticable when you take the P4 or 122 from Lewisham to Brockley, because it's essentially an upward incline for most of the route! I see "fast" 455s running past the morning Electrostar I'm on between Forest Hill and Whitechapel on the Overground, and when they're going northbound we end up almost going at the same speed as them when we're on the "slow" line. As for seats in the peaks, I got one after someone got off at Shadwell the other day. Miracle really, at 5pm! I often ditch the Overground at New Cross Gate going southbound for the luxury of a seat on a Southern train - sometimes if they're using 377s you can do a (legal) freebie in first-class!
|
|
|
Post by mre81 on Nov 20, 2012 22:18:59 GMT
The workings scheduled with 455/456's are timetabled about 14 minutes to get to Norwood Junction from London Bridge. The same workings with 377's are scheduled to take about 11 mins. I always thought the line from Forest Hill to New Cross Gate was steep- southbounds trains (particularly 455/456's) always seem to get faster as they approach Sydenham. If you stand on the platforms at NXG and look south, you can really see a very pronounced climb, so not surprised they struggle! I was doing a topographic study of the South London area with some GIS, to do with flooding if the sea level and the River Thames rose. The whole Forest Hill/Brockley/New Cross area is greatly raised from the surrounding area by several metres in elevation - even when sea levels rose to the maximum level the model would allow they weren't hitting Brockley and Forest Hill. It's noticable when you take the P4 or 122 from Lewisham to Brockley, because it's essentially an upward incline for most of the route! I see "fast" 455s running past the morning Electrostar I'm on between Forest Hill and Whitechapel on the Overground, and when they're going northbound we end up almost going at the same speed as them when we're on the "slow" line. As for seats in the peaks, I got one after someone got off at Shadwell the other day. Miracle really, at 5pm! I often ditch the Overground at New Cross Gate going southbound for the luxury of a seat on a Southern train - sometimes if they're using 377s you can do a (legal) freebie in first-class! Inner South London as a whole is generally very hilly. From leaving lovely South Norwood, the 197 is uphill and down dale all the way to Peckham Rye. Stretches those beasts of DB250's to the limit! When the floods come, all the nouve riche in East and North London, who 'won't ever go south of the river dahling' will be looking at us with wet-footed envy ;D I just love the fact that Southern think if they put a few monogrammed napkins on the headrests and call it 'first class' that justifies a few extra thousand a year from the poor burghers of Surrey and Sussex! As an over six-footer, I actually find their 'first class' seats have poorer legroom than where us plebians sit
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 22:26:16 GMT
I just love the fact that Southern think if they put a few monogrammed napkins on the headrests and call it 'first class' that justifies a few extra thousand a year from the poor burghers of Surrey and Sussex! As an over six-footer, I actually find their 'first class' seats have poorer legroom than where us plebians sit Ah well, if idiots want to pay for a bit of fabric on their headrest, idiots can pay for a bit of fabric on their headrest! ;D
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 20, 2012 23:59:14 GMT
I was doing a topographic study of the South London area with some GIS, to do with flooding if the sea level and the River Thames rose. The whole Forest Hill/Brockley/New Cross area is greatly raised from the surrounding area by several metres in elevation - even when sea levels rose to the maximum level the model would allow they weren't hitting Brockley and Forest Hill. It's noticable when you take the P4 or 122 from Lewisham to Brockley, because it's essentially an upward incline for most of the route! I see "fast" 455s running past the morning Electrostar I'm on between Forest Hill and Whitechapel on the Overground, and when they're going northbound we end up almost going at the same speed as them when we're on the "slow" line. As for seats in the peaks, I got one after someone got off at Shadwell the other day. Miracle really, at 5pm! I often ditch the Overground at New Cross Gate going southbound for the luxury of a seat on a Southern train - sometimes if they're using 377s you can do a (legal) freebie in first-class! Inner South London as a whole is generally very hilly. From leaving lovely South Norwood, the 197 is uphill and down dale all the way to Peckham Rye. Stretches those beasts of DB250's to the limit! When the floods come, all the nouve riche in East and North London, who 'won't ever go south of the river dahling' will be looking at us with wet-footed envy ;D I just love the fact that Southern think if they put a few monogrammed napkins on the headrests and call it 'first class' that justifies a few extra thousand a year from the poor burghers of Surrey and Sussex! As an over six-footer, I actually find their 'first class' seats have poorer legroom than where us plebians sit Indeed, South London is very hilly but in certain places. The major hilly area of South London is from West Norwood to Norwood Junction, Streatham Common to Birkbeck - not surprising considering that there are two V shaped valleys (the end of Elder Road by Norwood Park & West Norwood Station overhead railway bridge) To survive the floods, just stand at the top of South Norwood Hill or the former roundabout at Crystal Palace, it won't get anywhere near you ;D
|
|