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Post by snoggle on Dec 19, 2012 14:35:03 GMT
TfL have started the consultation process for changes to bus services to serve the Queen Elizabeth Park at Stratford as it develops and housing is occupied by new tenants. I've not looked at the proposals in detail yet but nice to see a bit of improvement and expansion. consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/stratford
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Post by mondraker275 on Dec 19, 2012 15:01:45 GMT
My initial reaction is 339 to Whipps Cross? How and Why? Considering 257 takes you from Stratford Area to Whipps Cross.
I like the 308 changes but they need to double deck the route.
Maybe to many changes and extensions.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 19, 2012 15:27:10 GMT
My initial reaction is 339 to Whipps Cross? How and Why? Considering 257 takes you from Stratford Area to Whipps Cross. I like the 308 changes but they need to double deck the route. Maybe to many changes and extensions. Overall I think it is quite a good set of changes. The 97 gets some extra peak buses which are definitely needed and I'm not bothered too much by the diversion past the new housing. I am very pleased to see the 308 sent up to Clapton Pond as it fills in that gap from Chatsworth Rd into Lea Bridge Road. I do think Clapton Pond is getting very crowded with terminating services though! Not fussed about the diversion via the Park but the link to Leyton Stn is broken. One thing that is a bit peculiar is that there is nothing that links the new housing to Asda at Leyton. Not everyone can afford to food shop at Westfield nor lug their bags from Stratford Town Centre. There seems to be a bit of a gap in the network design for shortish trips to major shops / supermarkets. Extending the W14 on from Asda round to Stratford City would give an easy and cheap link. I quite like the 339 proposal as it gives some interesting new local links and is obviously trying to relieve routes out of Leytonstone up to Whipps Cross which can be completely overloaded. However I think it will quite quickly be overwhelmed and TfL are not proposing any frequency improvements and I guess the route round Shadwell precludes bigger buses. I also wonder if reliability will go down the pan by making it so long? I think this proposal has replaced one to extend the W16 down to Westfield when the new tender award was announced last year. The 388 extension is a good idea and will bolster patronage on that route as I suspect people from Bethnal Green and Hackney will use it to Stratford. I think the N205 should run on to Leyton Town Hall to give just that slightly better access to Leyton and to better connect with the N26 and night 69. The other proposals look OK but I'd expect there to be further stages as more of the park is developed and opened up. There is very little additional access from the eastern side of Stratford / Newham for example. This scheme is largely from Hackney / Bow / Waltham Forest. There are some roads which will still have no service but it's impossible to tell if that is because the roads are closed due to building work or some other reason. For example the Velo Park looks relatively unserved except for the 308 and 388 at either end of the approach end.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2012 17:19:38 GMT
As I said before the 388 will definitely work well for me as I then can use it more often instead of the Central Line to Stratford at certain times, however I do have a concern for the extension of the 339 to Whipps Cross. The timetable for the 339 will definitely have to be revised before going into production as traffic during peak times is murder in them areas.
Also IMO I would leave the 205 as it is, it may have an effect on the route.
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Post by Trident on Dec 19, 2012 18:20:54 GMT
My initial reaction is 339 to Whipps Cross? How and Why? Considering 257 takes you from Stratford Area to Whipps Cross. I like the 308 changes but they need to double deck the route. Maybe to many changes and extensions. I think this is to try and possibly relieve the pressure from the 257. This route particularly in the mornings does get busy inbound towards Stratford as it's the only main bus link along Leytonstone High Road. With the 339 proposal in mind perhaps they might reduce the frequency of the 257 - To possibly about every 10 minutes? Depending on the expected decline of passengers and how frequent the 339 runs.
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Post by Trident on Dec 19, 2012 18:43:06 GMT
My initial reaction is 339 to Whipps Cross? How and Why? Considering 257 takes you from Stratford Area to Whipps Cross. I like the 308 changes but they need to double deck the route. Maybe to many changes and extensions. Overall I think it is quite a good set of changes. The 97 gets some extra peak buses which are definitely needed and I'm not bothered too much by the diversion past the new housing. I am very pleased to see the 308 sent up to Clapton Pond as it fills in that gap from Chatsworth Rd into Lea Bridge Road. I do think Clapton Pond is getting very crowded with terminating services though! Not fussed about the diversion via the Park but the link to Leyton Stn is broken. One thing that is a bit peculiar is that there is nothing that links the new housing to Asda at Leyton. Not everyone can afford to food shop at Westfield nor lug their bags from Stratford Town Centre. There seems to be a bit of a gap in the network design for shortish trips to major shops / supermarkets. Extending the W14 on from Asda round to Stratford City would give an easy and cheap link. I quite like the 339 proposal as it gives some interesting new local links and is obviously trying to relieve routes out of Leytonstone up to Whipps Cross which can be completely overloaded. However I think it will quite quickly be overwhelmed and TfL are not proposing any frequency improvements and I guess the route round Shadwell precludes bigger buses. I also wonder if reliability will go down the pan by making it so long? I think this proposal has replaced one to extend the W16 down to Westfield when the new tender award was announced last year. The 388 extension is a good idea and will bolster patronage on that route as I suspect people from Bethnal Green and Hackney will use it to Stratford. I think the N205 should run on to Leyton Town Hall to give just that slightly better access to Leyton and to better connect with the N26 and night 69. The other proposals look OK but I'd expect there to be further stages as more of the park is developed and opened up. There is very little additional access from the eastern side of Stratford / Newham for example. This scheme is largely from Hackney / Bow / Waltham Forest. There are some roads which will still have no service but it's impossible to tell if that is because the roads are closed due to building work or some other reason. For example the Velo Park looks relatively unserved except for the 308 and 388 at either end of the approach end. You have the 97 that links the Asda. It's only a short walk from Leyton Station
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 19, 2012 20:28:25 GMT
I like the N205 idea, but imo should be extended to Leyton Bakers Arm's.
The 108 should be diverted to Stratford City, that way much less congested in Stratford Town Centre.
The 236 could also be extended to Stratford City
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Post by Volvo on Dec 19, 2012 23:00:23 GMT
I like the sound of these extensions
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Post by Trident on Dec 19, 2012 23:11:51 GMT
I like the N205 idea, but imo should be extended to Leyton Bakers Arm's. The 108 should be diverted to Stratford City, that way much less congested in Stratford Town Centre. The 236 could also be extended to Stratford City I don't think the N205 should go as far as Leyton Green when you have sufficient nightwork on Leyton High Road covered by the 69 and N26. Perhaps as snoggle stated it would be better to terminate it at Leyton Town Centre so it could then link the N26.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 20, 2012 16:59:13 GMT
You have the 97 that links the Asda. It's only a short walk from Leyton Station Agreed but if you are laden with bags it is not a very friendly option give the height difference up from ASDA to the n/b stops at Leyton and then having to walk up to the station and crossover to get to the stop towards the Olympic Park. The footpaths are also pretty narrow and often crowded with people going to / from the bus stops to Leyton Tube. My idea for adapting the W14 is that it reaches the store front door and it would not be a long run to go in via the north end of the park and then serve the East Village before reaching Stratford City. The concept would be similar to the "front door" service offered at (Walthamstow) Crooked Billet Sainsburys with the W11, 385 and 397. There are other examples elsewhere in London. Given the Olympic Park housing is designed to be relatively "car free" then really convenient bus links are necessary to make shopping easy otherwise the roads are going to be full of grocery delivery vans. ;D
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Post by zebedee104 on Dec 20, 2012 17:41:59 GMT
Except the 339 is barely copying the 257 between those two points, so why would they reduce the frequency of the 257? The only common section of route they'll share will be from Crownfield Road to Harrow Green, which is barely sharing at all.
Hardly. One journey in each direction is hardly a vast improvement.
As the 97 is one of my local routes, what concerns me about this proposed change is that the buses will get totally snagged up going into Westfield, as they'll be approaching the bus station from the opposite direction. That's also where you find the bulk of the cars waiting to get to the car park.
If the buses all get stuck at Westfield then the other end of the route is bound to go to hell in a handbasket, no matter how hard aggresively the service is regulated.
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Post by Trident on Dec 20, 2012 18:28:38 GMT
Except the 339 is barely copying the 257 between those two points, so why would they reduce the frequency of the 257? The only common section of route they'll share will be from Crownfield Road to Harrow Green, which is barely sharing at all. Hardly. One journey in each direction is hardly a vast improvement. As the 97 is one of my local routes, what concerns me about this proposed change is that the buses will get totally snagged up going into Westfield, as they'll be approaching the bus station from the opposite direction. That's also where you find the bulk of the cars waiting to get to the car park. If the buses all get stuck at Westfield then the other end of the route is bound to go to hell in a handbasket, no matter how hard aggresively the service is regulated. As much as they only run together for only 2 stops towards Harrow Green and 3 stops the opposite way, in a way the 339 is a parallel to the 257 and can offer an alternative route. Leytonstone gets bottled up regularly in the main Town Centre and i believe the 339 extension could have an impact on the 257 usage because it shortcuts through to the otherside of Leytonstone and on to Whipps Cross Hospital - where both routes will meet again, the 257 is still fairly used at this stage.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 20, 2012 21:49:33 GMT
Except the 339 is barely copying the 257 between those two points, so why would they reduce the frequency of the 257? The only common section of route they'll share will be from Crownfield Road to Harrow Green, which is barely sharing at all. Hardly. One journey in each direction is hardly a vast improvement. As the 97 is one of my local routes, what concerns me about this proposed change is that the buses will get totally snagged up going into Westfield, as they'll be approaching the bus station from the opposite direction. That's also where you find the bulk of the cars waiting to get to the car park. If the buses all get stuck at Westfield then the other end of the route is bound to go to hell in a handbasket, no matter how hard aggresively the service is regulated. Interesting comments. I hadn't read all the detail and I agree 1 extra bus in the peak is possibly not enough for the 97. It can already leave Stratford City well loaded and if the housing on the Park is filled with people then it could be overloaded. It is already the case that the route struggles at times and has short turns at both ends. It would be unsatisfactory if this was to become worse. A way to fix your concern over congestion at Westfield would be to swap the 97 and 339 routes in the Park over so the 339 takes the longer way round and the 97 takes the short route pretty much as now out of the bus station. The 339 would have a double run but under the proposals the 308 will also have one so it's probably not a huge issue. Another way to "fix" my ASDA fixation ;D is to extend the D8 on from Stratford International up to ASDA. To pick up on other comments I don't think the 257 will be reduced. It is already overloaded and it would be suicidal for TfL to reduce it. The 339's extra capacity is marginal at best and it's clear TfL want to keep it clear of the High Road if it possibly can as well as serving Leytonstone Stn in both directions. Buses on the High Rd can't do that because of the daft traffic system in Leytonstone. The more I consider the proposals for the 339 the more I'm convinced it's all a bit too much. I think TfL are possibly making a rod for their own back by extending this route. Bus size can't be increased and I suspect frequency can't be pushed up too much because buses would meet each other on narrow roads in and around Shadwell & Stepney. This means that when demand grows there is no real scope to increase capacity. There is also the problem of what to do with the proposed Whipps Cross terminal. I'm almost tempted to suggest that TfL create a new service that runs from Walthamstow Beacontree Av, Forest Rd, Wood St (full length), then as the proposed 339 but only into Stratford City. The 339 could remain unchanged. The new service creates lots of new local links in Waltham Forest, improves access to stations & Whipps Cross Hospital and still does the "relieve the W15" task. I'd suggest a x20 min frequency to start off with to keep things manageable. I do wonder if TfL are trying hard to keep buses out of Stratford City bus station to avoid overloading it. You only have to look at the proposals - most of these take routes out of Stratford City as a terminal point.
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Post by mondraker275 on Dec 20, 2012 21:50:46 GMT
In a couple of years 339 would have gone from a short route to one of the longer. It will also rerouted through Carpenter Road, so good luck to the drivers learning all the changes.
Just wondering what they will do at Whipps Cross. I think maybe the roundabout gets developed into a terminus a bit like at Lea Bridge Road Roundabout.
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Post by Trident on Dec 20, 2012 22:04:46 GMT
In a couple of years 339 would have gone from a short route to one of the longer. It will also rerouted through Carpenter Road, so good luck to the drivers learning all the changes. Just wondering what they will do at Whipps Cross. I think maybe the roundabout gets developed into a terminus a bit like at Lea Bridge Road Roundabout. Well a few years ago there was a proposal to completely redevelop Whipps Cross Roundabout which includes traffic signals wfcycling.org.uk/documents/wcrplan.pdfCurrent stand space at the Roundabout is a bit tight though particularly with the 56 and 357 actually terminating there.
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